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Why is MG42 not available to hero Allies

So a T34 in German hands makes it a better tank than a T34 crewed by Russians? I would think both sides using the same tank would create balance.

no, it makes germans unfairly better because they get their own tank and russian captured while russians have only their own russian tank.

My friend, the Germans had a regiment of captured T34s during Kursk, the Russians had a few trophy tanks.

only photos i gave you is already a lot of captured tanks, i can dig more photos if you want.

http://coollib.net/b/127012/read

This page has a LOT of very useful information about captured german tanks repaired on soviet repair stations and factories and used on the front. You can also find there ORDERS and PLANS for repairing captured tanks. Sadly its on russian only, but i believe you can look at these tables and read words in it through google translate:

Spoiler!


over 800 german tanks were captured, repaired and used by soviets, this is few? This page also has TONNS of photos with captured vehicles, if you will count vehicles only on photos its already hell a lot.

Later in the war, Russians had many more as they were abandoned by the road for lack of fuel.

Germans also got a lot of soviet tanks in 1941 because they were left on the road due to lack of fuel or no possibility to repair them.

The largest number of captured and used german tanks was at 1942.

Were talking Stalingrad here (not RS). The MG42 wasn't that common, and so it being used by Russians would be far less common, if at all. Even if we're talking Kursk, the MG42 was relatively new and the Germans weren't giving them away.

First, ro2 is not Stalingrad by maps and weapons at all. Second, there are a lot of weapons in ro2 that were rare and uncommon at least on some maps in this game, but they are available as captured. Examples: ~5000-11000 Mkb42 produced since november 1942 and ~50 early mkb42 without bayonet attachment tested at early 1942 at Demyansk are available on every map for germans and for russians as captured; PPS-42 that was produced in blockaded Leningrad ( no leningrad maps in ro2 yet ) and less than 44 000 of these was produced ( probably about 20 000 or less ) is available on every map for soviets and for germans as captured ( if i am not wrong ); ~500 scoped AVT-40 were produced in 1943, available on every map and as captured for germans, G41 with 1944 optics, SVT with rare 6x optics.. should i continue?
MG42 really doesnt look unique and as something that shouldnt be given as captured weapon because its rare with all these weapons on the background.

LOL at all the propaganda pics.

what is funny?
 
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no, it makes germans unfairly better because they get their own tank and russian captured while russians have only their own russian tank.

Unfair to who? The Germans that have to drive T34s, or Russians who don't get a P4? Who says war has to be fair? Do the Japanese get Flamethowers? Do Yanks get knee mortars? Why this obsession with "balance" for RO2?

I can't believe your numbers, too much propaganda floating around muddying the waters on how many tanks Soviets destroyed/captured during 1942.


what is funny?

Almost all of those shots are posed. Who's to say they weren't given those weapons, hats, whatever and told to sit/stand/whatever.

It is interesting that many German tanks still had their markings, hardly something a Russian would drive into the battlefield with. Those with white stars/sickles are obviously from later in the war, just by the make/models shown.

Seriously, nice pics. But how do they convince me to give Russians a MG42 unlock? They only prove Russians didn't destroy everything that fell into their possession, except teddy bears :p
 
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Unfair to who? The Germans that have to drive T34s, or Russians who don't get a P4? Who says war has to be fair? Do the Japanese get Flamethowers? Do Yanks get knee mortars? Why this obsession with "balance" for RO2?

original ro2 is balanced unrealistically and unhistorically, so making disbalance at just 1 thing will not do anything realistic, first.
Second giving captured tanks to germans and not giving them to russians is unfair, unrealistic and historically inaccurate because Red Army was also capturing german tanks. Germans probably captured more simply because Red Army had more tanks than germans. But you cant use this as an argument to give captured tanks to germans and not to give russians, because in this case you should also reduce number of german tanks generally. If you want to do realistic disbalance in original ro2 ( that is balanced very much and very unrealistically ) , you will have to touch everything, if not, you will just nerf 1 side unrealistically.

Almost all of those shots are posed.
Whats wrong with it? almost all ww2 photos are like this. Doesnt matter if these photos were made for propaganda or not, the tanks are real and they were really captured. And i find nothing bad if someone capture enemy tanks and use them in propaganda. In your opinion USSR had no right to tell about it?

I can't believe your numbers, too much propaganda floating around muddying the waters on how many tanks Soviets destroyed/captured during 1942.

ah nice, nice. So everything that doesnt benefit to your opinion is propaganda and unbelievable? This is really nice and universal. Doesnt matter that everybody did propaganda and lied ( may be its unbelievable for you, but germans also had propaganda and in tanks too. German tankers often destroyed such tanks like T60 or T70 and said that it was T34. Read what Otto Carius says about Wittmann ), you always can just say " its propaganda " and you are automatically right.
Sorry but its not an argument. I collected information for you, i found real numbers and real statistics and i completely disproved your words that " soviets had few captured tanks " and " soviets were so stupid and propagandized that they destroyed every captured thing " ( also, where did you see that soviet propaganda was telling soilders to destroy captured things? I ve seen only that soviet propaganda was telling to capture and use captured weapons and vehicles. There were very detailized soviet instructions how to use captured weapon and vehicles ), I found TONNS of photos of captured and used weapons, including RARE weapons such as mkb42 and mp34, I found TONNS of photos of captured tanks, i found photos of soviet repairing stations with TONNS of german tanks including RARE german tanks such as flamethower tanks so you can be sure that these repairing stations really existed and they really recieved german tanks and repaired them. All what i hear from you is " germans had tonns of captured tanks, germans had that, germans were so ***ing good, soviets had few, soviets had PROPAGANDA ( OH GOD THEY HAD PROPAGANDA ), all what you give me is propaganda and all your proof is propaganda, JUST BELIEVE IN WHAT I SAY I DONT HAVE TO GIVE ANY PROOFS "

I dont see a reason to talk with people in this way.
 
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By adopting this approach, let's give the M1 Garand to the Japs too... Really!?!

In case you haven't worked it out already I'll explain it to you: Rising Storm is balanced on a different paradigm - asymmetric abilities which balance out. The IJA do not require the M1 to be balanced. The maps are also well designed to favour the attackers' abilities. For example, try attacking Iwo Jima as Axis - good luck!

RS has no relevance to this discussion regarding the MG42.

And you talk in imbalances, let's talk about the nerf on Kar98K accuracy, and wrong/nerf BC (ballistic coefficient) on 7.92x57mm Mauser, the nerf on P38 9mm Damage...

I have no problem with those features. They are less game breaking than the MG42. The RO2 balance is to allow each team access to the others' guns at Hero level.

Please do not do that, leave the MG 42 with AXIS only.

Only if Axis are prevented from using the PPSH-41, SVT-40, Scoped SVT-40 etc...

Axis-only MG42 is clearly stupid when considering all the other guns which are available to both teams.
 
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I dont see a reason to talk with people in this way.


By misquoting me?


I said
I wouldn't cry if they didn't. It would be far more realistic that on tank maps Axis could choose a captured T34.
IRL Allied arrogance/hatred/patriotism/propaganda usually ended in destroying captured items (except art).


Forgive me. I was wrong to generalize in the second part. I think you were offended, and for that I'm sorry. I was recently deprived of a decade of reference material by a Russian decrypt virus and still have some anger to vent.

Please read these:


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captured_German_equipment_in_Soviet_use_on_the_Eastern_front[/URL]


[url]http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-t-34r-soviet-t-34-in-german-service.htm[/URL]


You can discount either/both. This is the internet. You have the right to believe what you want to believe.


What I can infer is, Germans deployed Soviet tanks as fighting units, Soviets used German tanks for other stuff combat related, like converting tanks into self-propelled guns (as you stated). Still, it would be fun to make a tank map where both sides are equiped with T34s.


However, this discussion is about adding the MG42 to allied (Russian) hero MGer loadout options, not tanks.


If someone were to say:
"give American Team/Squad leaders Katanas. There are plenty brought back from the war in the pacific"


It can be argued about. American military acadamies actually train cadets to handle sabers, Katanas aren't that different. Or... Katanas are Japanese weapons and should only be used by Japanese. Or even, RS is a different game, STFU about balance.


IMO, some weapons are iconic, and should only be load outs for factions that were known to carry those weapons. I'm against all enemy weapon load outs. If you want to play with those weapons, play the other faction. It's really that simple. You can always "capture" one on the battlefield. But please don't make it an option to start the round with it.


Solution?
Perhaps make captured weapons a unlock by counting the number of times you capture a specific enemy weapon? Just giving it away seems wrong to me.


Last point, if an enemy MG is allowed as a hero load out, don't allow team mates to resupply your ammo, make the MGer go to a resupply point like everyone else. Oh Yea, and add an audio clip that says "stop throwing the wrong ammo at me".
 
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Axis-only MG42 is clearly stupid when considering all the other guns which are available to both teams.


Hmm, I would say it was the first sane move. But I see your point, the trend implies the MG42 would be an Allied Hero MGer load out. I don't like that trend.


Not pushing the MG42 on the Allied Hero MGers is trend breaking. If you play the maps that have the MG42 as Axis only, you'll see that it isn't a game breaker. It's a very nice addition to an already great game.


BTW, I support removing all Axis hero's enemy load outs in exchange for with holding the MG42 from Allied hands. It's too sexy to be passed around like a cheap perk.
 
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Hmm, I would say it was the first sane move. But I see your point, the trend implies the MG42 would be an Allied Hero MGer load out. I don't like that trend.


Not pushing the MG42 on the Allied Hero MGers is trend breaking. If you play the maps that have the MG42 as Axis only, you'll see that it isn't a game breaker. It's a very nice addition to an already great game.


BTW, I support removing all Axis hero's enemy load outs in exchange for with holding the MG42 from Allied hands. It's too sexy to be passed around like a cheap perk.

Glad we agree. Either 1) make MG42 available to allied heroes or 2) remove all weapon sharing from each team and rebalance the game around that. 1) is easier than 2).

It's too sexy to be passed around like a cheap perk.

Did you just admit the MG42 has an imbalancing influence? I think yo did. :)
 
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Did you just admit the MG42 has an imbalancing influence? I think yo did. :)

:D Only that it's sexier than any other weapon in game. The fact it is German may make you believe that. I've always loved the MG42, from an engineering point of view (to quote Leonardo Da Vinci) "simplicity is the ultimate form of sophistication".

As far as load outs go, IMO the PPSH41 and especially the PPS42 (again a very simple efficient design) are far sexier than the MP40, and the SVT40 is sexier than the G41. I'd say the Soviets are still ahead with pin up weapons. Now if only TWI/AMG would add the P08 Luger, then the two stacks of Axis/Allied center-folds would be balanced in my heart.
 
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1) In case you haven't worked it out already I'll explain it to you: Rising Storm is balanced on a different paradigm - asymmetric abilities which balance out. The IJA do not require the M1 to be balanced. The maps are also well designed to favour the attackers' abilities. For example, try attacking Iwo Jima as Axis - good luck!

RS has no relevance to this discussion regarding the MG42.

2) I have no problem with those features. They are less game breaking than the MG42. The RO2 balance is to allow each team access to the others' guns at Hero level.

3) Only if Axis are prevented from using the PPSH-41, SVT-40, Scoped SVT-40 etc...

Axis-only MG42 is clearly stupid when considering all the other guns which are available to both teams.


1) Tell that to campaign mode, although not be the primary game mode.

2) Less game breaking you say, but it's still there to unbalance the game.

3) Completely agree, the same to Allies.

Now speaking more seriously, the MG 42 is a influential weapon, true! ...but is so sexy in the AXIS hands. ...ONLY! :D
 
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1) Tell that to campaign mode, although not be the primary game mode.

2) Less game breaking you say, but it's still there to unbalance the game.

3) Completely agree, the same to Allies.

Now speaking more seriously, the MG 42 is a influential weapon, true! ...but is so sexy in the AXIS hands. ...ONLY! :D

Your last point I couldn't disagree more on
 
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Nah, you so far (besides me right now), are the only ones who have posted in this thread in October.


When I play the game I don't hear anyone saying "why isn't the mg42 for allies?" people just play the damn game. I do however hear people *****ing about mortars and flamethrower every once and a while in game, but for the most part people just play.
 
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They are still complaining lol.


Nah, you so far (besides me right now), are the only ones who have posted in this thread in October.


When I play the game I don't hear anyone saying "why isn't the mg42 for allies?" people just play the damn game. I do however hear people *****ing about mortars and flamethrower every once and a while in game, but for the most part people just play.

I'm not complaining because I haven't played RO2 since about a week after the update because I grew so pissed off with the significant imbalance that I quit.

I fear other players have stopped too.

That's the problem. That's why I started this thread because it is what I was afraid of.

Unfortunately for all of us, TWI appear not able to understand game balance and its impact on player retention.

They should at least just release a quick update enabling MG-42 for Hero Allies MGs. Not much effort required.
 
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I think the mg42 needs more recoil, but as far as creating this severe imbalance, lol no. Doesn't matter if the Axis get 2 MGs, roles are still limited. You make it sound like you're going up against double the amount of machine gunners.

You don't understand.

The MG-42 available to Axis increases the stacking significantly from an already significantly Axis stacked game.

Clearly by your comment you play Axis only. Only such a player would make that defense of the gun.
 
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