Weapons that point to the middle of the screen

[Murphy]

Hi,
probably not going to happen for KF anymore, but it's something that should be kept in mind for an eventual KF2. Some weapons point to the middle of the screen making firing them from the hip intuitive and comfortable, e.g. the LAR, while others point way below, like the .44 and dual .44s.

(buy dual .44s, draw a line extending the barrels in your head, they should shoot at where the lines are crossing. Use this to aim at a specific point in the level and fire. The shot will hit above that, because regardless of the weapon-model the game shoots at the middle of the screen)

You can get used to anything, but for consistency's sake I think every weapon should have its barrel pointed at the middle of the screen.

And before the usual troll brigade jumps on it, this isn't a balancing issue. It's not done intentionally and the game won't break if weapons point to where they're shooting. It's a small oversight or sloppiness that's not necessary. Fixing this may be more work than it's worth, but please look out for this in KF2, if you ever make one.

 

[Major Liability]

I agree. I will actually avoid using weapons with bad origins, they ruin the feel completely.

 

[ro_sauce]

actually ALL the guns point the exact same way as if you were aiming them, the only thing that moves is the player camera to xyz coords of the firstperson mesh (called playerviewoffset) so they always point towards the very center of the screen.

try it out, in console type:
editdefault class=magnum44pistol (or whatever weaponclass you want)

a properties window will show up for that gun, go to None->PlayerViewOffset and try different xyz coords (use ironsights in/out to apply changes)

so the gun always points towards center, the player cam is the only thing that moves in relation to the 1stp mesh.

 

[Murphy]

Then it should be REALLY unproblematic and easy to fix, right?

 

[ro_sauce]

yep, just do what i said, and find some xyz coords that look good to you, then write them down, and make a small quick mut that applies them to the guns you want to adjust, it would basically be one file that says "use these playerviewoffset coords on these guns".

or post the coords here and i'll make the mut for ya.

edit - oh yeah, you might have to play in windowed mode for the properties window to show up (i havent tried it in fullscreen, cause i never play in fullscreen)

 

[Murphy]

I tried that, but that also affects the weapon when you aim down the sights - and we can't have that, as they already point at the perfect spot then!

So really, it's the idle animation that's pointed wrong and that's what has to be fixed, if this is ever going to be fixed.

 

[nutterbutter]

I don't think weapons should be pointing pixel perfect to the center of the screen.

 

[Murphy]

Of course you don't...

 

[Major Liability]

I don't think weapons should be pointing pixel perfect to the center of the screen.

Why? I refuse to use weapons that aren't pointing at the center of the screen, it makes it look like the bullets are coming out crooked.

 

[Undedd Jester]

If I'm honest I've never noticed.

Its one of those things that I wouldn't mind one way or another if it was addressed.

 

[nutterbutter]

Why? I refuse to use weapons that aren't pointing at the center of the screen, it makes it look like the bullets are coming out crooked.

"That's not an MP, that's a YP, your problem." If you want to "refuse to use weapons" for an absurdly silly reason, have at it.

 

[ro_sauce]

were you doing it right murphy?
playerviewoffset doesnt affect the ironsights view, only the "hipped" view, here's some pics i did to show what it does:

sorry for the pic size, but i cant really upload anything big.

 

[Murphy]

Silly me. I changed the PlayerViewOffsetPivot.

The Z value I find comfortable for the .44 is -3 instead of the default -7. Makes it looks ever so slightly less puny too. I propose TWI change that in the next patch.

I tried the same on the bullpup but it's pointed wrong and to make it look like it could shoot at the center I had to change the Z value to 18! Unfortunately that means you're basically holding it up beside your ear and it's covering the whole right side of the screen... I'd point it up instead of moving it up but then the iron sights would be affected also.
So it's still the animation that needs changing.

I don't know which other weapons could be improved because these two are the only ones that always seemed grossly off to me.

 

[Jahangir]

perhaps it has something to do with weapon sway? Like, in Red Orhestra.

 

[Murphy]

No I'm not talking about the sway.

 

[ro_sauce]

you can change that too (if you want), it's called Inventory->BobDamping

if you open up the kf_weapons#_trip in animations browser, you'll see what i mean that all the weapons always maintain their actual direction/location, it's only the players camera that is moved in relation to the 1st person mesh.
they always point down the X axis, depending on the sights used (for ironsights view).

would changing the FirstPerson->DisplayFOV do anything towards what you want?

 

[Jahangir]

No I'm not talking about the sway.

isnt wepons not pointing at center = sway?

 

[ro_sauce]

it's actually called "freeaim", and its specific to RO, KF uses "weapon bobbing" which basically swings the gun mesh left and right when you walk.

all guns in kf always are in the same position as ironsights view, it's just the player's view in relation to the gun that is changed.

in RO the weapon mesh is in a different location to be compatible with free aiming, and when in ironsights it goes to a x-axis=0 location.

 

[Murphy]

isnt wepons not pointing at center = sway?

No, sway is when the weapon "sways" a bit so it's harder to hit things, or so it looks more natural.

What I'm talking about is the weapon model not having its barrel pointed towards the center of the screen.

The AK points towards the center, for example. It sways a little bit, of course but it's always roughly pointing towards the center:

The SCAR, however, points low:

The bullpup even lower. That way, when you shoot, it looks like your shots come out crooked, which is just weird, and it makes shooting form the hip less comfortable as you're aiming towards an imagined middle of the screen and not naturally with the weapon.

Red Orchestra is completely different, because you can move the weapon independently of the screen. They don't shoot towards the center either, they shoot where they're pointed, more or less.

 

[ro_sauce]

oh, so thats what you mean, lol, ok thats because X=0 is at the reddot device.
so because they use the same mesh position for ironsights and hipped, you cant have it both ways, meaning if you move it up so the hip mod lines up properly, when you go to ironsights it wont.

but it's easy to fix, just change the animation so Idle anim is higher than AimIdle (barrel = 0 in Idle, reddot = 0 in aiming) and because there's code that already says to use different anims for idle/aimed, thats all you have to do.

i'm sure they felt it was unnecessary though.

i hope yoyobatty gets done with his freeaim mut soon.