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Tripwire and this patch involving VAC

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#21
Finally long awaited victory in this dirty war.
Click to expand...
yeah but only on the costs of the POWs and not of the "combatants" those who hack and cheat actively without having been caught.
A victory maybe... but a hollow victory... it's like shooting the POWs instead of searching for the Partisans... those who might have allready learned their lessons and would never cheat anymore... while cheaters that didn't got caught are completely unaffected... i never cheated in any kind of online/Multiplayer game i ain't affected... i disgust people who try to enlarge their "virtual penis" by cheating and hacking... this whole thing is something that i could completely ignore... but there are also people around that did it because they were young and stupid.

Of course stupidity does not protect against penalty but how would you like it if you... e.g. because you once did a prank in an amusement park would never be allowed to visit ANY Amusement park again... or only a few and even then wouldn't be allowed to use any of the rides even after 30 years? in my opinion those people who just don't want to learn their lesson should be punished... but people like those who mentioned that their bans were over 2000 days ago and in completely different games... and that they have learned their lessons...

Should they really get punished further? Just so that you can jerk off about "We got a victory!" in another thread somebody compared this with the American Law about "Not being allowed to vote anymore" etc. but not all here are americans... in Germany e.g. the Right to vote had never been withdrawn by the court, only e.g. in cases of mental problems, only the Federal Constitutional Court can revoke the right to vote... and es it has been said... that never happened...
those people who want to continue to cheat will just wait for another sale... buy a few copies of the game for a dime and you're back where you started...

just my opinion
 
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#23
My view on the system:

It's a short time solution
For those with previous VAC bans it's
Short term: Inconvenient for people planning to cheat as they would have been VAC banned some time after cheating anyway. People not planning to cheat will have to get an additional steam account just for RO2 and pay for the game again.
Long term: Doesn't matter at all, anyone getting into the game would get a new account if their current has a VAC ban. The buyers best informed about this system will probably be those who are planning to cheat in the game.

The next time the game drops low enough in price for people to get a copy just to cheat this system will stop no one.

It punishes people with a VAC ban who bought the game before this patch
Consider someone who bought this at launch. 2.5 years ago, they have played this game maybe a bit now and then for two and a half years. Suddenly they are worse of than someone who bought it yesterday.
 
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#24
I hope as twi add options the sensible admins make use of it someone who was stupid enough to cheat 4, 5 or 6 years ago as a kid and has a clean slate since should maybe be given the benefit of the doubt, after all even criminals get paroled eventually


Kids do stupid things ask any parent, so it seems to me to be a shame to hold it against anyone when they've proved they have learned
 
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#25
it's a little bit like with Pro-Wrestling... after someone (the cheaters who regretted and don't do it anymore) accepted their punishement the other guys come and do this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCzc64G2rTw

while those who will just use a new account to cheat stand around and laugh about the "stupidity" of those who accepted their punishement and became honest players
 
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#27
Not sure victory is the correct word for this, the ones this will probably stop are the ones who did it got caught and wouldn't have done it again


the guys who hack regularly, take getting caught as an occupational hazard and as such will just use another hacked, stolen or fake account & will carry on


I can understand having it ban people with recent or more than one vac ban, but cant help feeling it's penalising many who are reformed cheats who wouldn't do it again anyway


But I'm pleased that TWI are adding options to limit how and who this applies too.
 
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#29
My personal opinion on any and all restrictions in games is one that's not exactly popular. In fact, the only way this update has effected me is that I can't use the server browser anymore.

When you buckle down on the community due to hackers, it only makes things worse for the players. Hackers generally don't care about the games they mess with, especially one they got for free, so banning them and instating rules that restrict everyone else just makes them think more highly of themselves. Even moreso when it forms a divide in the community.

The biggest problem with hackers is the distinct lack of administrators on servers.
There are powerless clan members, yes, but no admins.
And by the time one comes around, people are angry, bitter, and can't stop talking about what just happened.
During the free weekend, this repeated itself many times per round.
The admin just abandons the server soon after banning one of many hackers.

Now, I don't have a VAC ban, and I never have. But I'm wondering about what's next.
I want to play a game and have fun, not sit on the edge of my seat worrying about getting a VAC ban because someone thought I was too good in a game and then being barred from all of my past purchases because of a flawed system.
 
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#30
Hmm! Not happy with some of the attitudes here.

No one likes cheaters, but consider this; Lets say you got a speeding fine or a 3 month driving ban, you get your licence back, lesson learnt, and 3 or 4 years down the line and after being a good boy the government implements a new law which then takes it away for good based on the fact you were a naughty boy 4 years ago!

I dont think you would be best pleased!

Thats exactly what this mod has done to those who have a vac ban from several years ago.

Tripwire, WHAT A DISCRACE!!

I dont cheat and never have but every one deserves a second chance.

I was going to buy the full Rising Storm but if this is the atitude of the developers and some sever providers/clans then I wont bother.
 
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#31
Reminder: Steam strongly recommends users who received a VAC ban on their Steam account to move to a new account.

Steam Support: "I've been banned"

Do not register retail products or purchase new Steam subscriptions on a VAC banned account.

If you choose to purchase a new copy of the game, please register it or install it under a newly-created Steam account.
Click to expand...

-

If you made the mistake of using the same account and not moving to a new account, thinking your punishment was to carry that "badge of shame" through these years, the new filtering tool will indeed sound unfair to you (to many other gamers, it won't - fairness is highly subjective).

As far as I know, Tripwire is currently looking at a way to update the filtering tool, to allow admins to "read" how many days since you had your last VAC ban, and if these admins want, allow you back on the server if the VAC ban is old enough.

Showing patience and understanding here and on Steam will very certainly convince some server admins to give you a second chance. Anger and hostility will only condemn your chances at playing again on that tainted account. Make the right choice.

-

As a VAC banned user, you have to understand that by cheating (nb: you're responsible of your account, there is a password and Steam Guard for that) you betrayed all gamers - not just the gamers of the game you were caught cheating on.

VAC is kind enough to only ban you on a game engine, but the gamers (and server admins) aren't as forgiving since they are the ones suffering the most from cheating.

That betrayal means server admins and other gamers no longer trust you. You (and you alone) have to earn their trust again, and one way to do that is enduring the cost of migrating to a new Steam account: you'll have to rebuy the game (during Steam sales it's perfectly affordable), and you'll have to switch back to the old account to play your old games (or rebuy them for pennies during the next Steam sales).

You can not earn their trust by simply claiming you're no longer cheating - your words stopped carrying any weight the day your account was caught cheating. You need actions, and transitioning to a new account is a noteworthy action.

nb: the main thread on Steam Community (RO2/RS hub) regarding this issue is more than 700 messages long. Practically everything was thoroughly covered already.
 
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#32
{shd}tryfan said:
hmm! Not happy with some of the attitudes here.

No one likes cheaters, but consider this; lets say you got a speeding fine or a 3 month driving ban, you get your licence back, lesson learnt, and 3 or 4 years down the line and after being a good boy the government implements a new law which then takes it away for good based on the fact you were a naughty boy 4 years ago!

I dont think you would be best pleased!

Thats exactly what this mod has done to those who have a vac ban from several years ago.

Tripwire, what a discrace!!

I dont cheat and never have but every one deserves a second chance.

I was going to buy the full rising storm but if this is the atitude of the developers and some sever providers/clans then i wont bother.
Click to expand...

+1
 
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#33
:cool:

I find myself in agreement with Mord. I've been battling this behavior on servers and through clans since 2006. I'd be willing to make exceptions for people on a case by case basis, but by and large I have no sympathy left for this stuff. I've spent 1000s of man hours trying to make servers run nice for the public, and yet hardly a day goes by that I'm not alerted to someone trashing a server. And it's getting worse. I'm all out of patience, and any more I may regain is on a 12 month back order.
 
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#34
Cheating happened ofcourse already in other games in the very past.
My first memory is call of duty 1. And yes there were countermeasures too already to hold away the cheaters.

Young or old, everybody knows that you musn`t cheat.
I haven`t an excuse for these guys. I have never ever cheated in any game.

The cheaters must know that they are spoiling the game to others.
I went several times away from a server because i had seen cheaters had fun to handle on such a manner.

I say now, now i have fun :p
 
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#37
I honestly wouldn't have a problem with this if it was a feature advertised and implemented at the game launch nearly three years ago; I would have created a separate account just for this game. But, nearly three years after launch, they do this and everyone with any mark on their record is out of luck. A lot of people have VAC bans simply because of poor matchmaking putting them into a hacked server, which is what happened to me with Modern Warfare 2. Instantly leveled, instantly banned. This ban is over four years old, yet the game I've owned since the beta, and paid full price for (Rising Storm as well), I can no longer play. In my opinion this is the same logic that a lot of anti-gunners have. "If we ban regular peoples' rights to own firearms, criminals won't have them anymore!" "If we ban people with VAC bans from years ago, it'll stop all the hackers who do it constantly!" This is nothing more than a measure taken on the off chance someone might have been a hacker at one point and time, in a land far-far away, instead of dealing with the actual hacker problem. People who care about the fact they got banned usually aren't the ones who are causing problems on servers, they're more often than not people who play the game legitimately and logged on one day to find they no longer could.

tl;dr This causes more harm than good, and punishes those who have no direct involvement in actual game exploits.
 
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#39
=GG= Mr Moe said:
Your definition of a lot of players is probably a very small number, especially those playing at any one time.

You are more likely to make a lot of non/never cheating customers very happy.

Sounds like a win/win
Click to expand...

You don't understand, it won't stop cheating, most of the vacbanned users already stopped cheating a long time ago.
The only people who are still cheating are A: The ones who don't get caught.
Or B: the ones aren't vacbanned yet, but soon will be.
 
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#40
It won't stop cheating......Worst argument ever. Giving drivers DWI's and locking them up in jail doesn't stop drinking and driving. So lets just let everyone drink and drive. :rolleyes: Lets just scold them and put them back on the road......

To those who hacked when they were "kids"......Welcome to adulthood.
Cry us a river. But take notice, the real world doesn't really care to hear your sob story...

Get a new steam account. Buy the game again. To me, it seems like a very small price to pay in retribution for the misery caused by the hacker to many an innocent bystanders.

Those who bought the game with an account that had a VAC ban should learn to read the fine print when purchasing games on Steam. But I guess that is asking too much from someone who likes to take the easy way out.


My ire with hackers goes back to running servers during the days of no anti-cheat software (except what BlackBart put together on his own). Too many hours put into keeping them out of the server and not enough hours actually enjoying the server I was paying for and the game I wanted to play.

Kids today don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions. Man up. Get a new account. Buy the game again. Its the least you can do for ruining the gaming experience of those you encountered in the past.....

Or <light bulb> play on servers that feel sorry for you and don't choose to use the "VOLUNTARY" system that TWI has given to server admins.....
 
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