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KF Those weapons nobody uses

m4 has stagger fire, making decap easy as pie, and m4 doesent need reload at all as long as you still have glauncher ammo, it might be bug, but makes it superior to m32/ any combo, ofcourse this is just how _ I _ play the game, and still succeed and dont get ganked, and being able to launch grenades by simply pressin m1-4-m3-3-m1 rinse and repeat with no reload at all and throwing grenades at regular intervalls if needed, gives enough burst power to deal with fp's.

on the other hand m32 is better dealing with sc's due blunt grenade dump, wich is still costly, but attleast an way for demos to safely deal with sc's.
 
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I prefer m4/203 over m32 for many reasons
-no reload at all even on m4
-steady ongoing dmg output coupled with m79
-mk23 insta decap anything up to husk
-machete, imo super under-rated
-for burst dmg, pipes and grenades.

When you run out of demo ammo, you are still basically offperk cmdo, being able to switch between multiple trash killing weapons.

Not broken, just needs ammo buff.
This sounds pretty neat. I'll have to try this sometime.
I usually play on Sui or hard.
I don't see much difference between Hoe and Sui. I just play sui because omigoshpubshellno and I don't have a regular hoe server with good ping.
 
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I invoke the powers of the Necronomicon upon this thread; abandon hope all ye who enter here. :D

Anywho, rather than making a new thread for the idea I've got, I figure it'd be better to dredge this one back up so here it goes. :p

I think that the M4/203 on the demo should be re-purposed as the entry-level weapon for the Demolitions Expert. I think it should cost one thousand quid base (which means 300 quid as the final L6 cost).

Why?

Well, simply put, most people (discounting the odd few) readily view the M4/203 as one of the most underpowered, underused, and over-costed (probably also likely despised by new Demos) weapons in the game and I think this thread sums up a greater proportion of it's problems (reiterated here for completeness).

It's an underwhelming assault rifle with a high rate of barely controllable fire and an ungodly reload time (the ability to fire grenades during that time notwithstanding) with an attached grenade launcher that has half the ammo compared to it's counterparts (or less than half compared to the '32) and no real advantage compared to them (in terms of the projectile, all the 40mms are the same). As the final nail in the coffin, it's costed as a weapon that should be used into the mid- to end-game where it doesn't perform all that well anyways.

However, I think it would be a great entry-level weapon for the Demo at a low level, and would help supplant even a veteran's starting game if it was priced as one as I stated above.

Think about it:

1. It has a close-range defense ability that would actually mean something when the most dangerous things you'd be seeing are husks and sirens.

2. It's ammo is rather cheap and plentiful, allowing a Demo to score some kills while holding down his grenade stockpile when it's not needed, thus freeing up his team's LoS and making him more self-sufficient; however it's not overwhelmingly powerful so a starting Demo with it wouldn't be able to off and Rambo everything. :p

3. It's a bit more natural than the '79 as a starting transition weapon for new Demo players. Most players would know how to point and shoot the assault rifle portion, but the M203 would sit there as the true Demo weapon, while still maintaining the comfort zone of having the rifle to use as they're learning how explosives work outside of the hand grenades. It also has a lessened grenade stock base, so once players are comfortable with the launcher portion, it'd feel like the smart thing to do to move on to the '79 as it is a more dedicated Demo weapon. It also might lessen the spam as players notice what targets which portion of the weapon works better against and that knowledge has a better chance of making it to the other Demo weapons.

4. It would do little to shake up the game honestly, besides having the M4/203 see more use and maybe making new Demos a little less shaky. I'm not suggesting it be a starting weapon, or anything particularly drastic like that. Factoring in everything, it still probably wouldn't be taken off-perk due to weight concerns, nor would it provide a crazy early-game advantage to the Demo besides being able to actually defend himself from smaller targets.

Hopefully this idea makes it's way into somebody's ear that can do something about it, but it probably won't get changed this way, if at all. At this point I guess it doesn't even really matter, but unless we as a player-base are missing something, this weapon is rightfully swept under the rug most of the time, despite me wishing otherwise.

At any rate, I'd really like to hear some opinions on this, so comment away! :D
 
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Chainsaw - I think the issue is that it does not follow the perked speed bonus that Zerkers have, making it very difficult to use properly, and is often not worth the risk. Which is a shame, because the secondary fire function has ridiculous DPS potential. I think that the current price is fine, it just needs to trade away the infinite ammo for on-perk speed boost. Give it a gasoline meter.

M99 - It has too much blunt damage potential, and the ammo is too expensive. I don't think that removing the reload bonus would help it much, instead it would be more sensible to make this weapon damage a little less than the Crossbow, but increasing the HS bonus. That way, this weapon would emphasize the risk/reward dynamic that comes with playing as a Sharpshooter and having to do headshots to be effective.

M4 - It is fine as it is, sure it could use a reload buff, but it is still a formidable weapon without.

M4-203 - I personally think that this gun would have been a better choice as a medic weapon, firing 12 special medical grenades and having a rifle that does decent damage.

Combat Shotgun - I agree that the reload could use a bit of tweaking to make it more faster, but honestly, it is really really powerful, and speeding the reload might make it very OP.

Vlad 9000 - This is a shotgun that is actually quite situational. On open maps this weapon is absolutely useless, but in close quarters, and in tight and narrow hallways, this shotgun is quite an admirable trash-killer.

Huskgun - What the hell are you talking about? This gun is really amazing, best Scrake disposal weapon in the FB's arsenal.

Pancor Jackhammer - Utterly useless, I agree, I don't know what the hell TWI was thinking when they figured the stats out. The reload takes forever, the damage output is miserable, and the ammo reserves are very wanting.
 
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I think everyone's aware of the weapons nobody ever buys, and why. What's the point of having something coded in the game if nobody ever uses it? This thread is to ask TWI to buff these weapons or make them cheaper, so that we start seeing more of them in-game. Please add your support!


1) Chainsaw - totally useless, NEVER bought by anyone. Absolutely requires a buff (discounts won't work since most Zerks would rather have Axe or Katana, so there must be some good reason to get them to use this).
2) M99 AMR - somewhat useful, occasionally some people buy it just for coolness. However, the ammo is too expensive for the highest difficulty levels, which is the only niche the gun can serve. M99 definitely has no place in easier difficulties, where Xbow can do everything it does. A buff might be in order if ammo price is not negotiable (at least 1 shot FP at 6-man Hard). Alternately, maybe replace the ammo with the explosive/incendiary Raufoss round, maybe the added kaboom and afterburn effect could justify the high ammo cost.
3) M4 - every Commando I met prefers AK to M4. However, I think it's actually just right for it's price and function. Suggestion is not to buff or discount, but lighten the M4 to 5 blocks so that some people will use it just for the weight saving. Either that, or make Level 6 Commando spawn with Body Armor and M4, instead of AK. If they really want an AK, they can always buy one later. (Also, it doesn't make sense why Her Majesty's Commandos would spawn with a Russian gun????)
4) M4+M203 - good gun but too expensive, so nobody buys it. It's actually one of the few dual-perk guns, which makes for more interesting gameplay. Suggest at least a discount, or give Commando damage perks to the M4 portion, so that it is more useful off-perk. (Currently it only gets mag-size and recoil perks when used by Commando.)
5) Combat Shotgun - why in the world does this reload slower than the standard Shotgun???? If the reload was same speed, it would make perfect sense. As it is, the KSG is far better and cheaper, so no one ever buys this.
6) Vlad - doesn't do enough damage, yet works essentially the same like any of the other shotguns. Suggest tripling the current mag size, to give it a totally different feel (kinda like a cheap AA12).
7) ZED thrower - never used it coz I don't have the DLC, but it must suck bad if no one ever buys one.
8) Huskgun - apparently most FB's find Dual Flares to be better than the most expensive gun in their arsenal. This just ain't right. Considering the cost and inconvenience of charging up, this gun should instant-kill SC even at HoE!
1) i use it sometimes
2) i use it for patriarch sometimes when we have ton of cash
3) i met commando who prefers m4. i use it when i need ****load of ammo
4) i use it, but not very often
5) i used it yesterday. KSG firerate sucks compared to combat's
6) good weapon in some closed maps. not very good though
7) i use it sometimes. great on moonbase to fly foro free
8) i use it when team needs somebody to stun scrakes sometimes or for patriarch
 
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I invoke the powers of the Necronomicon upon this thread; abandon hope all ye who enter here. :D

Anywho, rather than making a new thread for the idea I've got, I figure it'd be better to dredge this one back up so here it goes. :p

I think that the M4/203 on the demo should be re-purposed as the entry-level weapon for the Demolitions Expert. I think it should cost one thousand quid base (which means 300 quid as the final L6 cost).

Why?

Well, simply put, most people (discounting the odd few) readily view the M4/203 as one of the most underpowered, underused, and over-costed (probably also likely despised by new Demos) weapons in the game and I think this thread sums up a greater proportion of it's problems (reiterated here for completeness).

It's an underwhelming assault rifle with a high rate of barely controllable fire and an ungodly reload time (the ability to fire grenades during that time notwithstanding) with an attached grenade launcher that has half the ammo compared to it's counterparts (or less than half compared to the '32) and no real advantage compared to them (in terms of the projectile, all the 40mms are the same). As the final nail in the coffin, it's costed as a weapon that should be used into the mid- to end-game where it doesn't perform all that well anyways.

However, I think it would be a great entry-level weapon for the Demo at a low level, and would help supplant even a veteran's starting game if it was priced as one as I stated above.

Think about it:

1. It has a close-range defense ability that would actually mean something when the most dangerous things you'd be seeing are husks and sirens.

2. It's ammo is rather cheap and plentiful, allowing a Demo to score some kills while holding down his grenade stockpile when it's not needed, thus freeing up his team's LoS and making him more self-sufficient; however it's not overwhelmingly powerful so a starting Demo with it wouldn't be able to off and Rambo everything. :p

3. It's a bit more natural than the '79 as a starting transition weapon for new Demo players. Most players would know how to point and shoot the assault rifle portion, but the M203 would sit there as the true Demo weapon, while still maintaining the comfort zone of having the rifle to use as they're learning how explosives work outside of the hand grenades. It also has a lessened grenade stock base, so once players are comfortable with the launcher portion, it'd feel like the smart thing to do to move on to the '79 as it is a more dedicated Demo weapon. It also might lessen the spam as players notice what targets which portion of the weapon works better against and that knowledge has a better chance of making it to the other Demo weapons.

4. It would do little to shake up the game honestly, besides having the M4/203 see more use and maybe making new Demos a little less shaky. I'm not suggesting it be a starting weapon, or anything particularly drastic like that. Factoring in everything, it still probably wouldn't be taken off-perk due to weight concerns, nor would it provide a crazy early-game advantage to the Demo besides being able to actually defend himself from smaller targets.

Hopefully this idea makes it's way into somebody's ear that can do something about it, but it probably won't get changed this way, if at all. At this point I guess it doesn't even really matter, but unless we as a player-base are missing something, this weapon is rightfully swept under the rug most of the time, despite me wishing otherwise.

At any rate, I'd really like to hear some opinions on this, so comment away! :D

I'd be on board with the m4/203 change - it honestly sees the least amount of use probably (of any gun on any perk, minus maybe the bile gun for medic). However, I disagree in that I though it SHOULD be the starting weapon. As long as they only start you with 3 or 4 nades it would never be considered OP to start a game with.

The opening wave or two would be a fitting time to use it since it's not much good for the later waves. This sounds like a perfect solution.

I wonder how useful these threads are though; has a spawn weapon (or a weapon in general) ever been altered based on this thread's comments?
 
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Yeah, all the Steampunk weapons are actual weapons once you get past the skins.

The Musket is an SMLE

The ZED Thrower is a Pancor Jackhammer

The Dr. T's is obviously a Thompson Submachinegun

And as for the Orca, it's actually a real hand-mortar, either lifted from a museum or a modern reproduction

-----

More on topic; I agree with Arche about both the M99 and the Chainsaw, but the Jackhammer really isn't all that bad of a shotgun, it just has a strange point of aim and it's about as quirky as the Vlad 9K when it comes to how to use it. I think the only bad part is the push-back ability, but seeing as it's mocked-up as a Steampunk weapon, it might as well have a similar (and hilarious in a cute way) ability.

Honestly, not to put a damper on TWI's enjoyment of Steampunk, but I think the next weapon pack should take the Steampunk weapons and Dwarfs?! Axe and make them into real weapons for those that prefer that kind of thing.

Make the Jackhammer, Dr. T's, and the Musket their real counterparts (with a changed ability on part of the Jackhammer, like say it's ability to expend a magazine as a mine ;) ) and then make the Dwarfs?! Axe a sledgehammer, which would really fit it's ability.:D

On the Blowerthrower, it's more of a tactical weapon, so it doesn't see a lot of straight use by most people. I think it was smart on TWI's part because they also probably thought it might stop people from using the Flamethrower off-perk on the Medic if the Medic had something similar that didn't self-damage so much. ;)
 
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People are using flamethrower as a medic???

Also, DLC that turns steampunk junk into normal junk, yes please.

Yes and yes!

Flamethrower is so gud, especially when kiting, as it doesent slow you down as much with med.

I use Flamethrower more with med than with firebug, since i very much hate it lol.

Most of firebad weps are more useful on other classes.
 
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1) Chainsaw - Needs changes, dunno.

2) M99 AMR - Sharp's heavy hitters need to have reload bonus removed (but everyone would have a massive cry), then make M99 a bit cheaper so it's not so damn stupid.

3) M4 - Seems alright to me, iunno, make it another ak duplicate? I don't care, I'm a doctor too.

4) M4+M203 - Needs all mando bonuses. Equal nade ammo to m79. Optional nade reload (rather than forced).

5) Combat Shotgun - I agree. It's already nerfed with lower mag size and higher price, give it the same reload speed.

6) Vlad - I think maybe it would be cool to have it as a weapon similar to the hunting shotty, almost useless unless you're close, but devestating in tight spaces and close range is what I have in mind.

7) ZED thrower - Weakest shotgun yet, complete piece o' cr*p. Dunno what to do with it. Maybe give it a very high 'shot' count, would make it stand out a bit more and would be a damage boost but not in a traditional and boring way.

8) Huskgun - This gun is awesome and you should stop talking about changing it and start talking about nerfing flares.

Huskgun is really powerful in HOE game,PLZ try this weapon more time
 
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1) yes, I never used a chainsaw and when I see somebody using it is like: noooooob
2) m99 its ok, no need to change anything on that wep
3) m4 its ok to me, I like the scope.
4) m4+m203 it's ok.
5) actually is a pretty nice shotgun, and the reload is not so slow.
6) vlad can be awesome in combination with the aa12, I have seen a lot of players using that combo
7) the zed thrower its ok, is weapon for the first waves, no need to change that wep
8) the husk gun is actually an awesome weapon, I know a lot of firebugs that use that wep, including me
 
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M4 could be made more competitive if the reload weren't so slow. Speeding up the existing animation would look funky, but if they had followed the SCAR's example and used the bolt release instead of the charging handle in the first place, the animation could be a snappy 2.8s or so, instead of the sluggish 3.63s we've got now.
A weight or recoil reduction could also breathe new life into it.

M4+M203's dealbreaker is that the M203 is reloaded after firing whether you like it or not. If you could use the carbine while the launcher was empty, and reload it later by pressing altfire, I would be all over the thing. But, at this point, I'm basically certain TWI won't mess with changing any weapons mechanics for balance/polish. Skeptical they'll even fiddle with stat numbers anymore.
 
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1) Chainsaw

People tend to buy this for novelty value only, or if they are playing on low difficulty servers. Personally, I can't stand it.

2) M99 AMR

the n00b cannon. Generally only see this used for Pat, or if someone is derping a bit, or they are playing on normal difficulty with the prevalence of ammo boxes distributed across the map, making filling it up irrelevant as every ammo box is 1 shot.


I quite like the M4. Good, versatile weapon with great sights. The only reason why most commandos would prefer the AK to this, is that they spawn with the AK. I also like the aesthetics of this weapon over those of the AK. It's a nice looking and sounding weapon that is great for headshots up to moderately long range.

4) M4+M203

Never use this, I'd rather use a decent sidearm such as the MK23 or Handcannon than this weapon. The M4 component isn't accurate enough, and the reloading of the M203 launcher is a problem. I'd rather go with MK23, M79 and M32 as my loadout and leave this behind everytime.

5) Combat Shotgun

The combat shotgun is superior for kiting due to the extreme damage output that you can manage with it. When kiting, the reload is mitigated due to periods of time with no zed engagement, but being able to unload all 6 shots in no time at all allows for you to clear a path with overwhelming firepower. As I will carry the Hunting Shotgun over the AA12 on all difficulties > Normal, this is my preferred gun when being a support on the move.


Pretty useful in confined spaces and also comes with a flashlight, not too bad, but generally there are other weapons that I prefer over it.

7) ZED thrower

Pretty useless a weapon. Looks and sounds silly.

8) Huskgun

I dislike the Huskgun due to the noise of the charge, even on my team it will often obfuscate the sound of approaching fleshpounds, sirens and the patriarch, zeds I want to hear coming. Dual flares are much better at killing scrakes and much lighter and cheaper too. Does this make flare revolvers OP? Yes, they are. But as has been pointed out, a nerf to the Flares would be preferable to a boost to the Husk. The only thing it has going for it in the firebug arsenal imo, is the lack of needing a reload. All other load-outs trump it due to the noise detriment that it causes the team.
 
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