Suppression is pointless + other gripes

[RobDollar]

On the subject of suppression again, currently it feels like you might as well just have a little message pop up saying "please act suppressed".

MGs don't take advantage of the suppression effect because it's just not effective enough to warrant doing. A russian MG can be firing at you from 70 meters, you screen goes grey a bit as you line up a perfect mid forehead shot on him.


Suppression done well, in the RO1 mod Darkest Hour; makes you really want to hit the deck when your getting shot at:
Darkest Hour Suppression Effect - YouTube

 

[Josef Nader]

Here's a thought...

As our soldiers level up in rank, do you think they'll learn to keep their gobs shut?

Kinda makes sense that raw recruits would jabber off at bad times. Maybe veteran soldiers will be the more steely-eye'd John Wayne types...

 

[Nenjin]

I've been in a building in an outer room while an arty strike literally came down in the street and the building. I was taking maximum suppression and I don't think it's something you hand wave away. It ****s with your fine aiming quite a bit.

Now, I don't know if the MG suppresses fast enough, because yeah, I've faced off against an MG and killed them pretty easily. Then again, he wasn't hosing down my cover with lead when I shot him. He was trying to be all sneaky and clip me with a burst when I popped up. I've yet to pop up against an MG that knows where I am and knows how to use the weapon and survive.

Kinda makes sense that raw recruits would jabber off at bad times. Maybe veteran soldiers will be the more steely-eye'd John Wayne types...

I think the idea is they do less panicked shouting and more grizzled muttering to themselves. I don't really mind it TBH. Unless you're 20 feet away from the enemy who is on the other side of the wall....you're in the cap zone. They can see there are defenders in the cap zone. Someone is gonna die in just a few seconds either way. I think it's just happening a little too frequently. Kind of like when you walk into the out of bounds area and every single voice channel in the game activates with guys screaming at you to turn around.

 

[Digipact]

Just because one bullet wizzed past your head it doesn't mean your suppressed. Try having a grenade go off near you, you'll experience the suppression effect much more then.

 

[Josef Nader]

I've been in a building in an outer room while an arty strike literally came down in the street and the building. I was taking maximum suppression and I don't think it's something you hand wave away. It ****s with your fine aiming quite a bit.

Now, I don't know if the MG suppresses fast enough, because yeah, I've faced off against an MG and killed them pretty easily. Then again, he wasn't hosing down my cover with lead when I shot him. He was trying to be all sneaky and clip me with a burst when I popped up. I've yet to pop up against an MG that knows where I am and knows how to use the weapon and survive.

Aye, the arty suppression is intense. The ground is shaking, the screen is blurry and greyscale, and smoke is impeding your vision. I've actually found myself cowering under a bit of rubble just pleading for it to stop before a sniper got me.

Pretty awesome, I think.

 

[Knochensack]

Here's a thought...

As our soldiers level up in rank, do you think they'll learn to keep their gobs shut?

Kinda makes sense that raw recruits would jabber off at bad times. Maybe veteran soldiers will be the more steely-eye'd John Wayne types...

Right... and then we need cigs to unlock. They really calm down. But hey devs, they influence stamina and sway! Hell... just gimme a coffee...

 

[Maizel]

I'

Now, I don't know if the MG suppresses fast enough, because yeah, I've faced off against an MG and killed them pretty easily. Then again, he wasn't hosing down my cover with lead when I shot him. He was trying to be all sneaky and clip me with a burst when I popped up. I've yet to pop up against an MG that knows where I am and knows how to use the weapon and survive.

That's the thing. Mg's aren't used to pin 1 man down in cover. MG's are used to immobilize a large number of enemies, it just isn't capable of doing it in RO2.

If you set up in an area with where people can shoot you from more than one place, you'll be dead within seconds, as every shot made is a 100% sure kill.

Here's a thought...

As our soldiers level up in rank, do you think they'll learn to keep their gobs shut?

Kinda makes sense that raw recruits would jabber off at bad times. Maybe veteran soldiers will be the more steely-eye'd John Wayne types...

I totally agree. I was on my own in a cap with at least 3 russians I couldn't locate. Suddenly I hear 'I'm reloading', so I started looking for them.

Shot 2 in the back with my bolty and bashed the other's skull in.

If they had held their mouth shut, I would have waited and camped, hoping to even the odds a bit, and would probably have been killed by one of them.

 

[Josef Nader]

Right... and then we need cigs to unlock. They really calm down. But hey devs, they influence stamina and sway! Hell... just gimme a coffee...

No need to get sarcastic. Just pondering aloud.

 

[Shadylurker]

I KNOW for a fact that people love the bolts. they get players before the assault class usually when the map loads, I know I usually pick a bolt, why? because yes a smg can hit you at 100m but if you have ever clicked an icon on a desktop you can hit that assault with your bolt before he hits you. unless your under 50m, then you have to be good. I'm sorry I have killed people at 80-100m with a smg but that was with a supported smg using small bursts. if your dumb enough to stand there your going to get shot regardless.

 

[Nenjin]

That's the thing. Mg's aren't used to pin 1 man down in cover. MG's are used to immobilize a large number of enemies, it just isn't capable of doing it in RO2.

Again, when I read this, I read it as someone who expects a huge field of fire and no one to shoot back at them as the only way the MG is effective.

They expect to sit in an area and just own it, like no one is going to try to flank them, reposition, get a sneaky angle through a window, or do only one of the dozens of things you're supposed to do against a heavy weapon and a guy who thinks he's invincible. You can hear the damn things across the whole battlefield. What exactly do you expect?

I've seen plenty of area denial done by MGs so far, even on Barracks. I had one guy that locked down the whole west side of the map by Administration and ruined three pushes into the NCO, until I *did something about it* I spent 3 minutes carefully flanking my way over to him, snuck up on him and shot him at 2 meters in the face. If he'd been a better MGer, or a better player, and expected someone to come looking for him rather than just being fat and happy shooting people, maybe he would have lived. He didn't. He got his three minutes of area denial though and a bunch of kills. If you want to sit there for 20 minutes unchallenged instead of 3, I suggest you play bots when the game releases.

It ain't the gun. It's the people behind it.

If you set up in an area with where people can shoot you from more than one place, you'll be dead within seconds, as every shot made is a 100% sure kill.

I'm a rifleman. I'm in a building. I go to a window to shoot. I have 8 angles of fire. I die. It's no different for the MG, it just makes more noise and fills players with a pathological desire to kill whoever is using it.

 

[Maizel]

Again, when I read this, I read it as someone who expects a huge field of fire and no one to shoot back at them as the only way the MG is effective.
it.

I don;'t expect that. I just expect the MG to be somewhat useful. Because it;s really not.

Sure, it will kill. But I kill from the same ranges with an SMG, with the same lethality, but with more mobility.


I guess we just have different opinions. But personally I don;t see any situation where an MG would be better than an SMG, which are also, wildly and constantly available.

 

[Josef Nader]

The SMG's aren't accurate out to rifle ranges.

Playing ROFactory, I managed to lock down the signal house with a well placed MG by engaging riflemen as they appeared on the horizon. I had 3 other guys with me providing pinpoint rifle fire, and we managed to hold that position for a good 3-4 minutes before an assault trooper lobbed a grenade into our little abode and sprayed us with a PPSh.

They're effective, you just have to play them right.

 

[Nenjin]

I guess we just have different opinions. But personally I don;t see any situation where an MG would be better than an SMG, which are also, wildly and constantly available.

This, I can understand. I value mobility, a lot. But I made myself play the MG because I wanted to know for myself what it was like. And the first round I had it, after some initial experimentation, the first place I plopped down I owned for 10 minutes, until we forced the Germans back and I had to reposition. I caught a whole wave of reinforcements trying to flank Administration and killed them all, even the sneaky-corner-using-rifleman who were trying to pick me off. I basically killed the German advance on that side because it got real quiet after that for the next few minutes.

But in most situations I wouldn't want to be stuck with a weapon I can fire on the move (the DP-28) and that gets the attention of everyone within 100m.

 

[Maizel]

This, I can understand. I value mobility, a lot. But I made myself play the MG because I wanted to know for myself what it was like. And the first round I had it, after some initial experimentation, the first place I plopped down I owned for 10 minutes, until we forced the Germans back and I had to reposition. I caught a whole wave of reinforcements trying to flank Administration and killed them all, even the sneaky-corner-using-rifleman who were trying to pick me off. I basically killed the German advance on that side because it got real quiet after that for the next few minutes.

But in most situations I wouldn't want to be stuck with a weapon I can fire on the move (the DP-28) and that gets the attention of everyone within 100m.

I've got to admit, I haven't looked at it from this way. With MGing being so hard, it could be a nice challenge to try and get effective with it.
But then again, it does sound like you're more busy finding good hiding spots that will keep you alive longer than a second and kill the lone soldiers that pass in your sights, than you are actually suppessing the enemy. This could be done with any weapon.

I think my gripe is more, that the current implementation of the MG, within big picture and the greater working of the game, makes it impossible to even m

 

[Jammybee]

The only problem i have with smgs is they shoot through sand-bag reinforced walls!

 

[Nenjin]

But then again, it does sound like you're more busy finding good hiding spots that will keep you alive longer than a second and kill the lone soldiers that pass in your sights, than you are actually suppressing the enemy. This could be done with any weapon.

I racked up 6 kills at that entry way to the West of Administration. When they stopped coming there, I dropped my sights, turned slightly to the right, and aimed in on the trenches outside the Propaganda House? (The green building west of the NCO Barracks and Infirmary.) Killed another 2 or 3 over there as they entered the trenches or tried to snipe from the corner of the building. The whole time I'm doing this, I'm watching the windows of Propaganda that I can see and hosing them down. I get maybe one more kill doing that. Every time I reload, I re-deploy looking at that that original entry point west of Administration, to see if someone has slipped through the buildings.

When I don't see anyone, I return my attention to the Propaganda House. I found the perfect angle that let me cover both from prone, in some cover, while allowing me to rotate enough that I could switch to either quickly.

You call it "staying busy finding a good hiding spot." To me, if a player isn't assaulting, they're "looking for a good hiding spot." I think I'll make sure to take a picture of this when I game today, to make my point. I had literally an entire side of the battlefield covered, from an ideal position of cover and stability and I made mega points doing it, enough kills that I felt good about my performance, and I almost lead the team.

Exactly what is there not to like about it? The fact I can't sit in the street and flaunt the other team's inability to do anything to me? _No one_ gets to do that in RO2. I had plenty of people returning fire on me, but because I took the time to find a good position, none of them hit me.

 

[Maizel]

Exactly what is there not to like about it?

I think I just dislike that I feel that there is very little room stats wise for the MG between the rifles and SMG's. Since in most situation, the SMG's and MG's are interchangeable for the same results.

But you make very good points, and I can see hiw you and other people would like it. I enjoy the debate.

 

[Sheps]

Thats odd, whenever it happens to me, I step aside, let the suppression wear off, which takes about a second. I take a sidestep, put on my ironsight, and kill the mger shooting at me with a single shot.

I have had this, or comparable cases many times.

Supression doesn't do all that much.

You clearly haven't had someone suppress you from a mounted machine gun that can get more than 20 bullets out of the barrel in one mag. Also, you know exactly where the machine gun is?

If someone is lighting up your window, there is a good chance that his buddies will also be paying attention to the same window. You "side step" out to do anything and your head is blown clean off of your shoulders.

I think you're fabricating a story to prove a moot point.

 

[Maizel]

I think you're fabricating a story to prove a moot point.

I think that maybe you are? What now? don't bring the conversation down to that level just to have a counterargument.

Whether you believe me is irrelevant, but your opinion of my credibility does not make something a moot point.

I'm telling you I did it, and more than once. Sometimes don;t even have to move my mouse when I lean back into the window, since there is 0 sway and alot of mgers are too stupid to move. I can snap back into normal position before anyone is able to shoot me like 95% of the time, if there are even other people around at all.

Some are smart enough, but I even get them more often than not, since it's not hard to adjust.


But as I said, you don't have to believe me.

 

[Ossius]

You clearly haven't had someone suppress you from a mounted machine gun that can get more than 20 bullets out of the barrel in one mag. Also, you know exactly where the machine gun is?

If someone is lighting up your window, there is a good chance that his buddies will also be paying attention to the same window. You "side step" out to do anything and your head is blown clean off of your shoulders.

I think you're fabricating a story to prove a moot point.

I know exactly what he means, the MGs on the apartments were prime examples of this, I'd just back out of the window, move to another window, and quickly shoot his head before they could retrain it on me, except in maybe large maps like fallen fighters, it doesn't seem like MGs have any breathing room.

Most of the time If I set up an MG and start firing, I'm dead within 20-30 seconds if I don't move. This doesn't feel like how an LMG should work. Maybe if the MG deflected bullets or the suppression from an MG would be twice as bad the MGer would last longer.