Small ideas for bolt action rifles.
- Thread starter Nicholas
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It's quite unlikely that you'd be able to score a hit at roughly 2km distance in any ratio of hit vs miss that's even remotedly consistent.
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Excuse me?
That's not even remotely true. The angle of the T-34 glacis made the effective thickness of the plate superior even to the PIV G with its 80mm plate.
45mm at 60 degrees from the horizontal + basic trig = 90mm horizontal traverse through the angled plate.
Taking into account overmatch with the 75mm shell, the plate is still superior to the 50mm of the PIV F2.
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Tank! is right about the firepower diffrence more or less as even with the 'superior' plate high velocity 75mm german guns basically could penetrate T-34 front armour as far as around 2km distance. Actual thickness and behaviour of the plate doesn't always match with LoS thickness on practical terms with old fashion AP physics, Jugoslavian 1960s tank tests were pretty interesting on that regard.
Of course I wouldn't count on the odds to be able to consistently hit anything at such range.
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Silly me.
And here I thought T34's and T34/85's were tanks.
Now I'll have to search the internets to find some to add to my bolt action rifle collection.
And here I thought T34's and T34/85's were tanks.
Now I'll have to search the internets to find some to add to my bolt action rifle collection.
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Yeah, lets keep this on topic guys. The tank gun penetration discussion belongs in a thread for itself.
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Silly me.
And here I thought T34's and T34/85's were tanks.
Now I'll have to search the internets to find some to add to my bolt action rifle collection.
The IS2: Greatest Bolt Action of WWII
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Silly me.
And here I thought T34's and T34/85's were tanks.
Now I'll have to search the internets to find some to add to my bolt action rifle collection.
Oh no, duck, the forum police are here.
So, based on that, I say the "2km" penetration figures are bogus. Keep in mind, we're talking about an L/43, here..
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Yes that 2km is more accurate for L\48 than 43. My mistake there.
But as Unas said, let's not derail this thread any further
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yes that 2km is more accurate for l\48 than 43. My mistake there.
But as unas said, let's not derail this thread any further
edit: I was wrorng
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Is it just me, or is it kind of a moot point to be arguing about the differences in accuracy between the mosin and kar outside ranges of 300m?
I was under the impression that since this was a game about the battle of stalingrad, the majority of infantry fighting would be at least semi-urban in nature. I doubt there are many areas in a bombed-out urban environment that will offer anyone a 300m-long view. Most kills will probably happen at ranges under 100m anyway. If there are any maps that will allow fighting to occur at ranges of 300m or more, I would imagine that they would be dominated by tanks.
I was under the impression that since this was a game about the battle of stalingrad, the majority of infantry fighting would be at least semi-urban in nature. I doubt there are many areas in a bombed-out urban environment that will offer anyone a 300m-long view. Most kills will probably happen at ranges under 100m anyway. If there are any maps that will allow fighting to occur at ranges of 300m or more, I would imagine that they would be dominated by tanks.
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And what happens when custom maps sporting long range infantry engagements are released? Or even official; Italian/Romanian DLC perhaps, where their lines were smack-dab in the middle of open steppe. I think it's important enough to model.
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I'm not saying that the differences in accuracy shouldn't be modelled, I'm pretty sure that a team like TWI pays enough attention to details that they've already made the two rifles have slightly different accuracy. I'm simply pointing out that the differences between the two are still very minute and all but the most hardcore bolt rifle fanatics are going to really notice. Very few players can hit a target at 300m, and I would venture to guess that those who have managed to do so aren't getting the majority of their kills at such extreme ranges anyway. IMHO, the biggest differences in the rifles are going to come from their lengths. The mosin was longer and will be more unwieldly in close quarters due to the new collision mechanic. The kar will be more manueverable indoors, but its decreased length should put it at a disadvantage when bayo-fighting against the mosin
And as for other theatres, I would imagine that the accuracies of the weapons used will be tweaked to reflect their performance in real life, not simply a re-skinned version of the original rifles
And as for other theatres, I would imagine that the accuracies of the weapons used will be tweaked to reflect their performance in real life, not simply a re-skinned version of the original rifles
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Decreased length, sure, but what about a sword bayonet versus a spike bayonet
Technically a sword bayonet is far more effective in CQC as it allows for blade twisting and in and of itself tenders a more grievous wound than a spike bayonet.
So +2 damage -2 reach, yes?
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Decreased length, sure, but what about a sword bayonet versus a spike bayonet
Technically a sword bayonet is far more effective in CQC as it allows for blade twisting and in and of itself tenders a more grievous wound than a spike bayonet.
So +2 damage -2 reach, yes?
Sure, why not? I still believe that more length is better for bayo fights though. I look at it this way: if I were ever involved in a RL bayonet fight, I wouldn't really care what kind of bayo I was using, I'd be much more concerned with being able to stab the other guy without him being able to stab me back. It's not like I'm gonna stick the guy and then he's gonna laugh at me saying, "HAHA!!! Your pitiful spike bayonet cannot hurt me enough to incapacitate me!!!" It will probably work more like, "AAAAGGGHHH!!!" followed by him falling downBesides, the game renders you 'dead' when you're incapable of fighting. And I pretty sure that getting stabbed, whether it be by sword, spike, or friggin' lightsabre, would be sufficient to put you down for good in one strike (inb4 hands & feet)
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Ok, tank gun penetration issue has been laid to rest. 7.5cm L/43 penetrates T34 glacis at 1600 meters, period, end of discussion.
Now lets concentrate on the rifles gentlemen, the rifles!
Now lets concentrate on the rifles gentlemen, the rifles!
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Just post your quite irrelevant BC data for then nth time again. That will bring them back on track.
Also, mention that the Mauser is slightly better at ranges where you probably can't hit a human sized target using iron sights in game anyway.
Also, mention that the Mauser is slightly better at ranges where you probably can't hit a human sized target using iron sights in game anyway.
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