Level Design slit trenches and other terrain-based fortifications

[Frostedfire]

I was making a quick mockup-map in UDK for another thread on this forum, and was wondering how to create easy trenches etc that look dugout, but without using a custom mesh. I went into berezina, an old ro map that I knew had lots of different types of trenches (including one I accidentally drove a bt-7 into, and then turned and shot a p4 in the back ) and found most of theirs were the more simple method of open hole in terrain --> throw in meshes --> throw down sheet of bsp for floor. However, these had the problem of all having flat-as-concrete floors, which works against that dug-hours-ago feel I wanted. My question is, would there be an effective way of making a floor or some kind (don't worry about the walls, I'll use sandbags for those ) that was (or at least looked) a bit uneven without having to use a mesh?

 

[worluk]

use another terrain actor, at least for UE2.5 that would be the way.
Basically Basovka light..

 

[Overholt]

This gives me an idea , where do I download a map editor for RO2

 

[Frostedfire]

september edition that'll let you throw together a bsp and terrain level until you can put the other ro2 stuff at the end of the month

 

[Overholt]

I press the september 2010 beta and it gives me webpage unavailable

 

[smokeythebear]

use another terrain actor, at least for UE2.5 that would be the way.
Basically Basovka light..

Basovka uses 1 just terrain. I used 2 terrains for the trenches in the vidzeme map I made, I dont think it's possible to do it the same way because visibility holes are HUGE in the udk for some reason.

It's giving me problems because I want to make a gully with convex walls that I already modeled so if I find no way to make them smaller. I guess the only way is to make meshes to cover everything up.

 

[worluk]

Basovka uses 1 just terrain. I used 2 terrains for the trenches in the vidzeme map I made, I dont think it's possible to do it the same way because visibility holes are HUGE in the udk for some reason.

It's giving me problems because I want to make a gully with convex walls that I already modeled so if I find no way to make them smaller. I guess the only way is to make meshes to cover everything up.

Was pretty sure it uses two, I seem to remember talking with daskarma about how much pita it was to align them properly.

 

[Xendance]

Basovka indeed uses two terrains.
My advice is to make the trench pieces with some 3d modeling software and then add some kind of dirt/earth skirts around the trench model so that it first nicely into the terrain.
Then just push the terrain quads down to make your trench, after that you'll have something like this: \_/
Then just add your trench piece to fill the sloped quads of the terrain.

Visibility tool only allows you to remove patches of terrain at the same size as the max tessellation level setting. And you want high max tessellation level (ie. aggressive LOD on terrain) to have good performance.

 

[smokeythebear]

Was pretty sure it uses two, I seem to remember talking with daskarma about how much pita it was to align them properly.

You are right. I was thinking of 2 terrain actors like 1 main terrain and a second for the floor, cutting visibility of the main and using meshes to fill it in. I think that way is easier to edit especially if you want trenches that have slope with a hill plus you avoid the texture stretching.

 

[coldplatypus]

Are there disadvantages of using a single "terrein"? Why do some people use multiple terrains?

 

[worluk]

you would need a rather highpoly heightmap to make the trenches look decent. The general terrain does not require that level of detail and you can save the tris there to boost performance. So you use a more low res terrain for the general terrain and a high res one to model the trenches.

 

[Drecks]

Do what Xendance wrote here and make the trenches with 3D Max or another 3D program.

 

[coldplatypus]

you would need a rather highpoly heightmap to make the trenches look decent. The general terrain does not require that level of detail and you can save the tris there to boost performance. So you use a more low res terrain for the general terrain and a high res one to model the trenches.

Oh so it is an optimization thing. Is it difficult to merge multiple terrains into a single map?

 

[smokeythebear]

Oh so it is an optimization thing. Is it difficult to merge multiple terrains into a single map?

It's not difficult and it optimized fine.

Like drecks said though the best way is just to model it in a 3d ap. The other ways being discussed still work but are not optimal. Everything is better with meshes.

 

[Slyk]

Rant: UE Terrain Sucks Donkey A$$

Two terrains work fine IF you don't want trench works all over the map. The 2nd terrain is only really effective if it is in small enough an area to keep the vertice points close together to get the desire effect. Note in Basovka that the trench walls are sometimes a bit glitchy and can be hard to get to look 'right'.

Mesh are the best option but a TON of work especially if you're not skilled in the basic tools/methods. Also, you can't really create mesh work in UE3 like we could in 2.5; see my map RO-Elnya [url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=27076 [/URL]

where I made some 'just dug' rifle pits from sheets and converted them to mesh. Collision was a bit wonky though.

So, depending on your level layout you need to decide how many trench works you want, if it's a lot across the level, you want mesh work. Wait to see what comes out as mesh in ROHOS and then see what you can appropriate for your level, OR go find someone to make you some models

Good luck!