Quality vs quantity: tanks edition

[=GG= Mr Moe]

True, it will be a bummer that there most likely will be less tanks and other vehicles because of the detail involved, both from TWI and the community. There is a lot of work there. Hopefully this game attracts a larger community that will have more resources to work on these things.

For this reason, I hope they stick with more mainstream tanks and vehicles and not go for the ones that were more rare.

 

[doomis]

We all know what a huge marketing success will be a fully animated interior of a tiger tank. But then we will also need an :is2: in the game to show its true superiority over everything else.

 

[Darkseed]

If it was up to me and I could only choose two I'd probably choose the SU-76 for the russians and the Marder III for the germans.

I'd love a T-60 in HoS though. It's probably my favorite crap tank of the war.

 

[RedGuardist]

My money is all on the next two tanks being an IS2 (praise it) for the Russians and a Tiger for the Germans.

In fact i'll bet your own families on it.

In Stalingrad....hardly. At least the IS2 (Glory to the Name) is totally out of question. Also Tiger is a big question mark.

 

[Mormegil]

If it was up to me and I could only choose two I'd probably choose the SU-76 for the russians and the Marder III for the germans.

I'd love a T-60 in HoS though. It's probably my favorite crap tank of the war.

I'm hoping BT-7, I love that auto-cannon. Only works well with team tanking while "circle-strafing" your enemy.

 

[SheepDip]

Tiger tanks were deployed around Leningrad mid-42 afaik, but none of the heavy tank batallions were used in Stalingrad, only during withdrawal/defense in '43.

I personally would be very happy not to see any heavy tanks what-so-ever...(apart from the KV-1)

The additional vehicles would have to include a STuG...surely?

 

[RedGuardist]

Tiger tanks were deployed around Leningrad mid-42 afaik, but none of the heavy tank batallions were used in Stalingrad, only during withdrawal/defense in '43.

Yeah, so that narrows the Tiger down too.


Stug and KV-1 would be great addons, but we

 

[Welshie]

Yeah, so that narrows the Tiger down too.


Stug and KV-1 would be great addons, but we

 

[Darkseed]

I'm hoping BT-7, I love that auto-cannon. Only works well with team tanking while "circle-strafing" your enemy.

AFAIK the BT-7 had a 45mm gun and never any kind of auto cannon. I could be wrong though.

Are you sure you're not thinking of the 20mm TNSh auto cannon of the T-60?

 

[dogbadger]

If it was up to me and I could only choose two I'd probably choose the SU-76 for the russians and the Marder III for the germans....

marders, both panzer 2 and p38 based, miss the cut i'm pretty sure.

again, it's not easy of your relying on balance between tanks alone.

 

[LordKhaine]

Pz3 and the KV1 would be nice. Both common tanks that made a large impact on the earlier part of the war we're concerned with. But much of this depends on the Pz4 itself. Will there be the early marks with short barrels, or the later ones with long barrels? Or both? Because without that long 75mm gun, I can't see how a KV would work. And in any case, that Pz3 is going to struggle against anything. Gah... it's tricky to pick with so limited a number of tanks!

That said, I still definitely think it's better to have fewer well modelled tanks than lots of poorly represented ones. The tank system in RO1 never felt up to the same level as infantry combat. It would be nice to see them on par.

 

[dogbadger]

Pz3 and the KV1 would be nice. Both common tanks that made a large impact on the earlier part of the war we're concerned with. But much of this depends on the Pz4 itself. Will there be the early marks with short barrels, or the later ones with long barrels? Or both? Because without that long 75mm gun, I can't see how a KV would work. And in any case, that Pz3 is going to struggle against anything. Gah... it's tricky to pick with so limited a number of tanks!

That said, I still definitely think it's better to have fewer well modelled tanks than lots of poorly represented ones. The tank system in RO1 never felt up to the same level as infantry combat. It would be nice to see them on par.

i plussed you there cos back when stalingrad was announced, and i thought of tanks these 2 came to mind and they are favourites.
I even had a p3 ext model (various marks) with half a mind on HoS.
i thought the KV1s would match best with slightly weaker armour but still lies the problem of a dual purpose gun giving more flexiblity due to inf support than the L60 50mm of a later p3. P3N can support infantry but will get hammered by the kv1 (or t-34 of course).
THe best balance might be 2x piii J and 1 Piii N vs 2 x kv1s.

The same applies to the P4 - i think they are planning on an F2 or G at first - makes sense to use a dual purpose gun for parity - but that weapon is a jump up in AT capability so in itself might swing the balance from russ to ger quite sharply.
However use the inf support version and it will be vunerable if alone against armour.

what is clear is that the setup of maps , objectives, re-inforcements etc can fine tune balance so we needn't worry about inherent tank advantages - i trust TWi and the decent mappers from RO to get this right. As the game matures you'll maybe see plenty of maps where one side only has armour, certainly where one side has more.
What does concern a bit is the monkeys who are going to make crude open tank battles without considering (or having the capacity to understand) gameplay - that's where complaints could start coming.

oh and stug is an absolute must as said.

 

[Lucan946]

I'd far rather see TWI only add in two tanks at the start and put a huge amount of detail into them than to have 10 tanks in at the start with hardly any specific details. Besides, they've already confirmed a free content package that will bring the number of tanks up to 4 and add in 2 troop carriers. Considering that I'm sure there will be more free content packs, and modders will get to work very quickly I'm sure, we'll soon find ourselves being rolled over by plenty of T-60s, Pz. IV Ausf-Es and T-70s.

I'm assuming they're throwing the KV-1E in for the first free content pack. The problem with that, however, is that unless the Germans get 88mm Flak-18s, they have literally no tanks or AT guns that can take a KV-1E. Sure, if they get around the flanks or back they have a chance, but considering that if they are spotted at all they are probably dead (it mounts the same guns as the T-34/76, after all) it's a tough call. I suppose they could hope to knock out a tread or destroy the main gun, however.

 

[Amerikaner]

Quality > quantity. I'm very happy with the direction TWI is taking with tanks. I'm hoping there is a lot of variety with the uniforms due to the Heroes system however. I enjoyed the variety in the mod.

 

[Das Bose]

I'd love to see the T-60 with the 20mm cannon too! Did the Germans have a similiar vehicle during the same period?

 

[SheepDip]

The T-60 that we got in RO?

Panzer II had a 20mm.

 

[Das Bose]

Yes on Berezina with the KV-1, I think it would be cool to have the T-60 and the PII, especially with the new penetration. They could be very effective tactical weapons :IS2::IS2:


I think I could stand being locked in a T-60

 

[Lucan946]

I'd love to see the T-60 with the 20mm cannon too! Did the Germans have a similiar vehicle during the same period?

The Pz II 'Luchs' had a 20mm cannon. It was used extensively for scouting.

The T-60 that we got in RO?

Panzer II had a 20mm.

I would love to see a more in-depth cannon ammo system, the way they are making gun ammunition more in-depth (they're adding APCR, right?) That way we could actually have AP cannon rounds and HE rounds. I really like the way the German Soldier's mod implements it in Men of War.

 

[Darkseed]

I'm assuming they're throwing the KV-1E in for the first free content pack. The problem with that, however, is that unless the Germans get 88mm Flak-18s, they have literally no tanks or AT guns that can take a KV-1E. Sure, if they get around the flanks or back they have a chance, but considering that if they are spotted at all they are probably dead (it mounts the same guns as the T-34/76, after all) it's a tough call. I suppose they could hope to knock out a tread or destroy the main gun, however.

I think it's about time that the axis get to experience how it is to struggle with superior armor for once.

 

[Fedorov]

Quality FTW, lifetime is precious :IS2: