Quality vs quantity: tanks edition

[Mormegil]

I know tanks in RO2 will be realistic in terms of stuff full interior animations, optics, slit views, damaging tracks, optics etc. but how exactly will be realistic armor/penetration system? Will there be stuff like partial penetrations, the armor no longer coded as a one value but actually has a value of slope and thickness and it's split into a turret, upper hull and lower hull, no more tank "health" that it goes from yellow, red to blown up and all the other details?

You know ROOST already takes into account per polygon armor values - so it goes further than upper hull / lower hull and turret. It also took into account armor thickness, penetration, angle if impact, and modeled track, ammo cache and engines are critical hit points.

Darkest Hour even modeled things further with angle of turret and damage to optics.

The yellow to red was just on the icon to let you know generally how much damage your tank had sustained, since it wouldn't be realistic to know exactly how much armor fatigue occurred.

So I think it's safe to assume ROHOS will go further than that.

 

[Kashash]

I thought armor values in ROOST were coded very simple- from 1 to 10. There's no such a thing as slope, every tank model has actually vertical armor coded with just 1 value. Even in Darkest Hour there's no lower hull coded as far as I know, only turret and upper hull. It would be nice if actually whole area of armor was coded for example the shape of turret of T34 is round so if you hit the center you might penetrate it but if you hit the edge, it will most likely bounce off...

 

[UncleDrax]

I really don't want to see an IS2 and a Tiger in the game. I hope the two other tanks are KV1 and Panzer III.

/me starts 'KV1 was greatest tank of Stalingrad' meme.

 

[Lucan946]

I think it has already been said somewhere in the thread, but...

The level of detail in the new tank system is WAY beyond anything we have done before. Actually, it is WAY beyond anything ANYONE has done before, as far as I know.

Remember - you are getting a full 3D interior to the vehicle. Including all the crew. All animated and functioning. You saw the loader in the trailer...

You are also getting all the ammo bins, all the fuel cells, the transmission, drive shaft, optics, etc etc.

The exterior models took something like 6 man-weeks of work, the interior about 3 man-months for one tank. It may be less going forward, now Rob has worked out most of the tricks - but it is still a heavy job.

I think you have as much systems functionality in Steel Beasts, but without the interior model and crew. WWII Online probably has similar mechanics, but based on much more dated research and also missing the interior modeling.

So - only 2 vehicles at launch... it is a LOT of work

Sorry, but the Steel Beasts thing is not true, as you do not have to take in to account the huge developments in tank killing and tank protection systems that have occurred since January 1943.

Aside from that, this is very good to here.

 

[dogbadger]

/me starts 'KV1 was greatest tank of Stalingrad' meme.

everyone knows that - kv1 is the old testament.

 

[Hans Ludwig]

I would like to add that I would pay for a future tank pack. Tripwire Interactive is a very small company. They are going up against very large game studios and in the end they need to make money. I do not see anything wrong with paying extra money down the road for extra vehicles/tanks. If they have modeled the tanks fairly accurate then each new tank will add/change the game play of HOS. WWII had many different vehicles/tanks. I can list plenty of tanks/vehicles I would like to see as plenty of other people have over the years. What if they charged $10 for a vehicle pack. This is not much money these days and it would give them extra income and sales to create RO3 or more content. I know the younger people are very much against paying more for extra content. However Tripwire is a company and they need to make money. The more we support them the better a chance that everyone will get in the end what they want. This is just my 2 cents...

Yeah, that way we can kill off the modding community.

 

[SexyFish]

Yeah, that way we can kill off the modding community.

Yeah, then we can kill of the dedicated servers, take away lean, and....oh..wait..

 

[TodSky]

In what way would TW adding DCL to their game kill the modding community. That statement makes no sense at all. We already know that TW will be adding extra-free content like they did in RO:Ost. The main difference now is they will be adding later what should be in the initail release.

As for TW being a small company, yes they are. Whether people like that or not it is true. Look at EA or Ubisoft… in comparison tripwire is a small company. That however is not necessarily a negative thing and nor do I mean this in a negative way. It is a simple fact.

Considering that A. They're already planning on releasing these things as "free content packs" (what it sounds like) and B. having sold 500,000 copies of Red Orchestra and I don't know how many of killing floor, perhaps they aren't as small as you think.

It's lucky they are a small company because 500,000 copys over a 4/5 year period wouldn't cover the companys out-goings.

Regards
Ernst Hoffmann

 

[Otto Fuhrmann]

I would like to add that I would pay for a future tank pack. Tripwire Interactive is a very small company. They are going up against very large game studios and in the end they need to make money. I do not see anything wrong with paying extra money down the road for extra vehicles/tanks. If they have modeled the tanks fairly accurate then each new tank will add/change the game play of HOS. WWII had many different vehicles/tanks. I can list plenty of tanks/vehicles I would like to see as plenty of other people have over the years. What if they charged $10 for a vehicle pack. This is not much money these days and it would give them extra income and sales to create RO3 or more content. I know the younger people are very much against paying more for extra content. However Tripwire is a company and they need to make money. The more we support them the better a chance that everyone will get in the end what they want. This is just my 2 cents...

I agree with HerrPorsche

 

[Hans Ludwig]

You can't have DLC and a modding community. DLC means that the creator of the game doesn't have to spend money on creating some type of SDK for the community which to mod with. Instead, the developer creates all the content and charges you unreasonable prices for it. While you guys might not see this as a bad thing, it's something that us PCers should stand against as matter of principle. Why? Because modding is big part of the experience that sets us apart from the console crowd. Without modding we wouldn't have Project Reality, Darkest Hour, DOD/DOD:S, Modb.com, countless mods that add what game developers refuse to add in the name of "relaxed realism" or whatever word they invent to justify dumbing down a game.

Name one game that is strictly DLC and has lasted as long as OFP/Arma2, il2, RO/DH? There isn't one. Because sooner than latter the game developer, like those of COD/Mw2, stop support of the game. So you have a worthless game you can't do anything with.

 

[HerrPorsche]

All I was stating is that I would pay extra to receive some more vehicles down the road. That is all. I do not want to argue. That is why I added that at the end that it was just my two cents. You seem to have taken it as though there will be no modding community if they were to add a vehicle map pack that people pay for. I agree that we need a modding community and that it does set pc users apart from consoles. Once again it is just my opinion. I was just posting support for Tripwire and the extensive work they have done it seems on tanks. Wilsonam even stated a few post down how many man hours it took just to to complete each tank. After all we all love the game and want them to be around to keep producing excellent material. I hope with this post I did not set off any nerves.

 

[Holzman]

To be honest... Tripwire is a small company. If you label a company by IPs (Intellectual Property) they hold what? 2? 3? Killing Floor and the Red Orchestra and it's series along with "The Ball"? They are a smaller company, which doesn't mean they are bad, look at Paradox, (as a Development Company) has very few IPs as well yet they produce games that are loved by their dedicated community. Also, killing the mod community? Will the modders bring to the game the level of detail that Tripwire promises? I doubt it. Not that I think the modders don't deserve some credit. Just that they are modders... and thus not obligated to release as polished material due to a lack of financial incentive.

 

[Jörg Biermann]

I hope with this post I did not set off any nerves.

****ing hell Porsche you really piss me off and get on my GOD DAMN NERVES!!

 

[SheepDip]

You can't have DLC and a modding community

I'm sure you can. ROOST had good updates/content packs, meanwhile the modding community gave us Mare Nostrum, Darkest Hour, and a few other mods that sadly were not as popular.

However.

Paid DLC that impacts peoples ability to take part are not very good. DLC for extra vehicles, extra maps, extra weapons restrict the players who refuse to pay for them. If I'm playing on a server that runs onto a paid DLC map I cannot continue to play, I have to go elsewhere, and if I know a server is running a map I cannot play on - I'm likely to never go on that server again. It harms community.

I'm sure if TWI release content for free then a simple "donate" feature on their website will allow us to show our appreciation.

Edit - DLC that does not affect peoples ability to play, like those released for Killing Floor are fine

 

[HerrPorsche]

Excellent suggestion. I like that very much.....

 

[Hans Ludwig]

I'm sure you can. ROOST had good updates/content packs, meanwhile the modding community gave us Mare Nostrum, Darkest Hour, and a few other mods that sadly were not as popular.

However.

Paid DLC that impacts peoples ability to take part are not very good. DLC for extra vehicles, extra maps, extra weapons restrict the players who refuse to pay for them. If I'm playing on a server that runs onto a paid DLC map I cannot continue to play, I have to go elsewhere, and if I know a server is running a map I cannot play on - I'm likely to never go on that server again. It harms community.

I'm sure if TWI release content for free then a simple "donate" feature on their website will allow us to show our appreciation.

Edit - DLC that does not affect peoples ability to play, like those released for Killing Floor are fine

GREEN:
Darkesthour is very popular. While at certain times of the day is beaten out by RO by a few more players, most gaming forums suggest that Darkest Hour plays more realistically and is still fun to play.

RED:
I agree with.

To be honest... Tripwire is a small company. If you label a company by IPs (Intellectual Property) they hold what? 2? 3? Killing Floor and the Red Orchestra and it's series along with "The Ball"? They are a smaller company, which doesn't mean they are bad, look at Paradox, (as a Development Company) has very few IPs as well yet they produce games that are loved by their dedicated community. Also, killing the mod community? Will the modders bring to the game the level of detail that Tripwire promises? I doubt it. Not that I think the modders don't deserve some credit. Just that they are modders... and thus not obligated to release as polished material due to a lack of financial incentive.

You do realize that TWI were "modders", right? Most game developers got their start by being "modders." You seem to forget that the greatest games we have cherished and set the bar for the rest of the gaming industry were created by modders. There is no need for me to list those games, because a true gamer would know what they are without me or anyone else listing them.

 

[213]

I am amused by people who think that financial incentive produces better quality results than personal incentive. i guess call of duty series of games is a perfect example of that "financial incentive" producing better quality games.

 

[HerrPorsche]

Guys give it a rest. Life is too short to be arguing non stop over nothing. I think everyone's point is made here. Everyone gets each others point. Lets move onto other ideas that will support Tripwire and Heroes of Stalingrad....

Peace

 

[LemoN]

You can't have DLC and a modding community. DLC means that the creator of the game doesn't have to spend money on creating some type of SDK for the community which to mod with.

See ArmA2 and you know that this statement is false.

It certainly is possible, official weapons and functions are always more polished and less riddled with bugs.
ArmA2 has a ton of very high quality mods and units done by the community.
People buy the DLC because of 3 reasons:

1: They can be sure that it's mostly bug free and they have good support.
2: It's polished.
3: It's standardized; People use the same DLC everywhere and you don't have to f*ck around with a load of mods and different units.

 

[Hans Ludwig]

See ArmA2 and you know that this statement is false.

From reading one of many threads over at the BIS forums, including a few posts from Binkowski, I don't get that impression at all. So I'm not really sure where you think DLC can coexist alongside one of the biggest modding communities to ever exist from a DLC that was barely released by BIS.

One of many threads over at BIS that have or currently discussing this issue.
LINK