New Interview?

[Void]

nowhere has this been confirmed.

or denied. Pointless.

we are (at least I am not) not arguing for the sake of arguing....we are pointing out flaws in the apparent progression system and giving CONSTRUCTIVE criticism
on how it should be improved.

I am pretty sure that you don't know the progression system.
How can you give constructive criticism on something you don't know?

Do you know more than the rest of the community?
What are you hiding?

I have heard that gay communist terrorists are trying to invade our American online communities. I am not saying you are one of these people, but can you give me some proof that you are not one of them?

 

[Stormer]

Relaxed Realism:
I assume that Relaxed Realism gives one unlocks, persistent stats, and progression (hero's etc.). Also included are the availability of all the new bells and whistles of the game and the option to select all HUD features.

Realism:
I assume that Realism does not included unlocks and progression? What about persitent stats? If so, are the stats bracketed by 'realism/relaxed realism'? I would also assume that certain bells and whistles and HUD features are not available to the player? Standard "RO1" type loadouts are in place? (bayos, etc.) No hero stuff....

Custom:
The option to mix and match any and all of Relaxed and Realism. I would assume that certain option selections nullify or turn off unlocks, persistent stats and/or progression?

i really hope this is the case, relaxed realism = all the stuff for the cod crowd

realism = no unlocks etc for the ro crowd

would be at least some consolation.

 

[Fedorov]

The thing is we are so close to the release and there are no details on what will the realism preset will be.

I always assumed that Relaxed realism would be like Ostfront with some new unrealistic stuff, and hardcore realism would be like an unbearable Darkest Hour/ArmA/SS tweaked servers. Because for me, Ostfront is quite relaxed as it is, and I like it that way, it has the sweet spot, my definition of hardcore realism is not something really fun nor something I'd really like.

Everyone, like me, has made their own assumptions, because of the simple fact that Tripwire have not said a word about its details, so, none of us have even the slightest idea of what will Tripwire do with the "Realistic" setting.

I'm getting more and more convinced, that we won't know about it until the game is actually released.

I can't blame Tripwire, because they are probably scared of the massive arguing that will come afterwards, everybody trying to push their own concept of realism. But they are being inefficient, by not releasing the details, that discussion will happen anyway, and It'll happen in any single thread about any unrealistic feature, and there you can't blame us, cause we are being kept in the dark.

Now there is more negativity than ever for several reasons, and I'd say the reasons are that those of us who complain now were self controlling with optimism and our own faith in Tripwire, but so many recent issues, things like non optional team language, the unrealistic unlocks (which we don't know if they'll be in the "realism preset" or we'll have to find some crazy custom server), the negativity from the outsiders, and the unfinished looks of the game when we are so close to release, has contributed a lot to erode our faith an optimism.

 

[heady89]

The thing is we are so close to the release and there are no details on what will the realism preset will be.

I always assumed that Relaxed realism would be like Ostfront with some new unrealistic stuff, and hardcore realism would be like an unbearable Darkest Hour/ArmA/SS tweaked servers. Because for me, Ostfront is quite relaxed as it is, and I like it that way, it has the sweet spot, my definition of hardcore realism is not something really fun nor something I'd really like.

Everyone, like me, has made their own assumptions, because of the simple fact that Tripwire have not said a word about its details, so, none of us have even the slightest idea of what will Tripwire do with the "Realistic" setting.

Oh come on.
You seriously assumed that realism mode would be arma style or extreme, since when was that ever even hinted at?

It's been quite clear from the beginning that the relaxed mode offers more hud elements and unlocks while damage, ballistics and such will always remain unchanged and that in the opposite(realism) mode you'll have less hud elements and so forth.

i really hope this is the case, relaxed realism = all the stuff for the cod crowd

realism = no unlocks etc for the ro crowd

would be at least some consolation.

Even with relaxed mode on, this will be far from any cod title unless you mod it.

 

[Fedorov]

Oh come on.
You seriously assumed that realism mode would be arma style or extreme, since when was that ever even hinted at?

Can you really tell otherwise? the point is we don't know.

For example, Ramm said in the competitive podcast, that no matter the server setting, you won't be able to play with a weapon you haven't unlocked yourseld. So I guess that if you don't unlock bayonets first you won't have it in the realistic setting.

Sorry, but without info, all we can do is assume stuff.

 

[WiFiDi]

does everyone relize the majority of people who play the game aren't on the forums so you people that pretend to speak for the ro commuity are just idiots. there are only a few of you i know many hardcore gamers that welcome the unlocks and these are guys who won't touch a game unless its realistic. (bf3 there not gonna buy that.)

my point is why is the minority pretending to be the majority it happens in every forum (and it pisses me off. ) you are like less than 1% of everyone whos going to buy ro2 and probably about 1% of the current ro community. yet you act as if you get to make all the decisions about what the ro community really wants...

okay rant over...

 

[LeopoldStotch]

To be honest, I'm kinda hoping that there will be an "oldschool" server with some of the stuff disabled that many of us deem silly.

such as the double-mag MP40, the stick mags on the PPsH and the infamous AVT and Mkb42.
And I also noticed that stripper clips are not available from the start, which stung alot because it reminded me of MoH Airborne.
I absolutely understand that all these decisions were made for gameplay and balance reasons, but try to understand this notion of mine:

None of this was needed in Ostfront. The PPsH simply has the advantage over the MP40 with it's drum magazine. And the germans have an advantage with their MP44. No counterpart on the other side was needed to balance things out.

My 2 Cents.



EDIT: I am also super jelly that that guy got offered a Beta Key and I didn't.

 

[Reddog]

Oh really? Where did you hear this? Because those of us who are concerned are only asking for an RO1 preset.

If the devs would confirm that such a preset exists in the game, then this whole issue could potentially be dropped. The problem is that the information we currently have suggests that such a thing does NOT exist at this time. I'm sorry to say this, but have you even read our posts that talk about what we're looking for?

Seconded!

If TWI came out and confirmed extactly what the realism server preset entails we would all be happy, that's all we want. However the silence on this topic is deafening. Now considering that they are pumping out details of the relaxed realism mode, yet won't confirm anything about realism mode other than that it exists, REALLY deafening...

 

[Grobut]

As I've not played the game I certainly don't have the definitive answer, but its plain to me that his response says:
Play Realism and you get the 'standard' RO loadouts.
Play Relaxed Realism and you get the progression, unlocks, etc.

Eh, problem is, you can read Zerisus's post two ways, because in his first post in this thread, he says "If you want to play without unlocks you can customize the server for that", IE he's talking about "Custom" servers then, and was actually impying that only Custom servers can have it disabled.
But then later he says Realism servers will not have the unlock stuff.. ok, but is he talking about the "Realism" mode, or is he talking about realism-servers in the "Custom" mode?

I'm not 100% sure, i can read it both ways because of the mixed signals, and it contradicts other things we have been told, in that Competitive Podcast for instance, John stated that players will not be able to play with things they haven't unlocked in any mode.. ok, so does that mean we won't be allowed to play the "Realism" mode untill we unlock bayonets in the "Standard" mode first? Because if it's standard there but we won't be allowed to use it untill we unlock it... ohh man i am confused now...

We have gotten to much contradictory information, i don't know what's heads or tails in it all anymore, have plans changed since we got news last? If so to what? Has it allways been planned like this but someone got things confused when speaking with the press? I can see that happening easilly, Dev's are humans and we all make mistakes, but then what's the real news and what are the bloopers?


We could really use some clarity on what exactly the differen't modes are, what they contain, what can be changed by the servers, and how we will filter for it in the server browser, some solid information on thease things could go a very long way twords calming things down here on the forum.

And maybe you are right, maybe the "Realism" mode is exactly what some of us are looking for with the game, but that's not what we where told some months back, where it seemed apparent it would have the same unlocks as the "Standard" mode, so did plans change? Did someone make a mistake? Does Zerisus actually mean the "Custom" mode? I am confused, so very confused, and i would just like some clarity, a feature list of what's what.


At the end of the day, all i really want is a mode i can easilly find that plays like RO, realistic loadouts and classes included, and i don't really care what it's called as long as it exists.
I also don't care if there are other modes that are different, that's fine, i have no desire to tell people how they should play the game.

 

[LightsabeR]

We could really use some clarity on what exactly the differen't modes are, what they contain, what can be changed by the servers, and how we will filter for it in the server browser, some solid information on thease things could go a very long way twords calming things down here on the forum.

Exactly. This is all what most of the people who are expressing concerns want. A clear cut answer about game modes, how they they are differentiated from each other and how the server browser works in terms of filtering realism servers (if they exist as a separate official server type).

I really don't understand why some people get all up in arms just because some are asking for this info. I don't think it's too much to ask with the game 1.5 months away from release. Hell, even if TWI said "we've not finalized this yet", it would still be better than leaving us hanging.

Maybe Zerisus could elaborate what he meant by his previous contradicting posts?

 

[The Beast (nl)]

I don`t like the little zoom in in weapon view as in Darkest hour.

 

[DiedTrying]

I think what it boils down to is that some people are worried that "relaxed realism" and the larger sized market that goes with it will overshadow "realism" and overlook the heritage of RO.

There aren't many games that fit the mold that Ostfront did, to potentially lose that type of game would be frustrating.

And don't say "You don't have any proof that we are doing that" because that would be avoiding the issue. In some form or another, just by divulging time into "relaxed realism" you've taken away time from developing the realistic aspects of RO2. Whether it only be 25%, 50% or 5%. (i.e. Time developing: 75% realism/25% relaxed)

We can also look to other games, actors, musicians, and essentially any other marketed product and point out examples of a company/person "betraying" (I'm using that term loosely) their loyal customers (I'm looking at you Papa Roach).

To say this isn't/won't be the case is complete speculation in which no evidence has been offered to date to quell those thoughts.

On the other hand, there have been some realizations of our worst fears in 1. How the devs/mods have reacted to this PR situation 2. Fact that focus of the gameplay has been split

To sum it up, TWI is beating around the bush and trying to make reassurances.
The concerned RO member sees the facts that developer focus has split and knows from experience that often times devotion lies with the dollar.

You can keep telling us "not to worry about it" but that's a pretty piss poor PR move.

_________________________________________________

Side note, nobody answered my previous question. If I'm playing in realism, will I still be able to select the small PPSH magazine rather than the default drum?

 

[hockeywarrior]

Eh, problem is, you can read Zerisus's post two ways, because in his first post in this thread, he says "If you want to play without unlocks you can customize the server for that", IE he's talking about "Custom" servers then, and was actually impying that only Custom servers can have it disabled.
But then later he says Realism servers will not have the unlock stuff.. ok, but is he talking about the "Realism" mode, or is he talking about realism-servers in the "Custom" mode?

I'm not 100% sure, i can read it both ways because of the mixed signals, and it contradicts other things we have been told, in that Competitive Podcast for instance, John stated that players will not be able to play with things they haven't unlocked in any mode.. ok, so does that mean we won't be allowed to play the "Realism" mode untill we unlock bayonets in the "Standard" mode first? Because if it's standard there but we won't be allowed to use it untill we unlock it... ohh man i am confused now...

We have gotten to much contradictory information, i don't know what's heads or tails in it all anymore, have plans changed since we got news last? If so to what? Has it allways been planned like this but someone got things confused when speaking with the press? I can see that happening easilly, Dev's are humans and we all make mistakes, but then what's the real news and what are the bloopers?


We could really use some clarity on what exactly the differen't modes are, what they contain, what can be changed by the servers, and how we will filter for it in the server browser, some solid information on thease things could go a very long way twords calming things down here on the forum.

And maybe you are right, maybe the "Realism" mode is exactly what some of us are looking for with the game, but that's not what we where told some months back, where it seemed apparent it would have the same unlocks as the "Standard" mode, so did plans change? Did someone make a mistake? Does Zerisus actually mean the "Custom" mode? I am confused, so very confused, and i would just like some clarity, a feature list of what's what.


At the end of the day, all i really want is a mode i can easilly find that plays like RO, realistic loadouts and classes included, and i don't really care what it's called as long as it exists.
I also don't care if there are other modes that are different, that's fine, i have no desire to tell people how they should play the game.

I would rep you +:IS2: if that were possible. This is exactly what is creating all of this confusion on the forums! Just a dev posting exactly what each of these modes contain would go a very very long way towards clearing up this debate on both sides.

 

[MrHat]

I have news for you. "relaxed realism" will ALWAYS overshadow strict realism in video games. It doesn't mean that there won't be a community that plays strict realism. I would suspect that most of us old schoolers will gravitate to more realistic settings. By opening things up for a wider audience they will also attract more possible converts to playing realism mode. And yes I'm sure they are thinking about dollars. They are a business, and want to stick around to release another few games after this one.

I don't think I'm being a TWI apologist. They have to meet people where they're at, and that means making the learning curve a bit less steep for newbies. They have to do this if they want to continue to build their business anyway. As long as the OPTIONS are there to play more realistically I don't have a problem with that choice at all. And I have no reason to believe those options won't be there, or at least easily modded in.

 

[Mormegil]

As long as the OPTIONS are there to play more realistically I don't have a problem with that choice at all.

The problem with options are they're so unrealistic and non-historical. Did Stalin give options with "Not One Step Back"? Did Hitler give Paulus the option to surrender?

I demand TWI give us NO OPTIONS for REALISMS SAKE!!!

 

[DiedTrying]

I have news for you. "relaxed realism" will ALWAYS overshadow strict realism in video games. It doesn't mean that there won't be a community that plays strict realism. I would suspect that most of us old schoolers will gravitate to more realistic settings. By opening things up for a wider audience they will also attract more possible converts to playing realism mode. And yes I'm sure they are thinking about dollars. They are a business, and want to stick around to release another few games after this one.

I don't think I'm being a TWI apologist. They have to meet people where they're at, and that means making the learning curve a bit less steep for newbies. They have to do this if they want to continue to build their business anyway. As long as the OPTIONS are there to play more realistically I don't have a problem with that choice at all. And I have no reason to believe those options won't be there, or at least easily modded in.

I suppose that it's better to have split the game into two sections, rather than to dumb down "realism".

There is still the concern that the realism part will be put on the back burner if the "relaxed realism" takes off. As you said, they are in the business to make money. Would you cater to the larger group of customers (relaxed real) or the smaller group (realism)? I'm just afraid that when thinking of new features, they will focus on those for the relaxed community.

 

[hockeywarrior]

As long as the OPTIONS are there to play more realistically I don't have a problem with that choice at all. And I have no reason to believe those options won't be there, or at least easily modded in.

I agree with much that you are saying. The problem is that we don't know to what extent TWI will be supporting an option to play the game with loadouts similar to the original RO. As I pointed out in reply to developer Zerisus' post, it's really important that it be just as easy to hop in a relaxed realism/realism server with all of these unlocks, as it is for the many RO players out there to hop in a server that is running an "RO Classic" preset, that fits under the custom server category (unranked), but is filterable and easy to find.

 

[Scarf Ace]

The whole problem with catering to the "other side of the fence" is that I really doubt a significant amount of those people WANT Red Orchestra. Look, if they want a game like COD or BF, they'll buy MW3 or BF3. They won't want a game that doesn't fully cater to their type of gameplay. It's incredibly rare to see someone who says something like "I can't wait, this Relaxed Realism thing sounds perfect" or "I can't wait for this progression system" on any website. Most positive comments are talking about how refreshing the realism is and the various features. On the other hand, I've seen people get extremely doubfultful about RO2 when they heard about the progression system. To some of the people who aren't as informed as the viewers of this forum, hearing and seeing some of the stuff that were in recent videos was extremely off-putting. The negative reactions to skill points and unlockable drum mags especially aren't only inside this forum.
If the features implemented and changes made will (negatively) affect realistic mode, it could very well mean you're not just making the game worse for part of the fanbase, but actually pretty much all of the fanbase. I simply have not seen enough people showing interest in the unlocks and relaxed realism to justify all these features.
OFP: Dragon Rising tried to cater to "both sides of the fence" and by doing this they accidentally catered to nobody. TWI is taking a massive risk.

PR in recent times is also a problem. I think the wrong approach is being taken here. First of all, we're clearly confused about what exactly realism mode is. The second thing is that I think that what has been shown to appeal to potential new players isn't an ideal choice.
I think what should be shown off is not just relaxed realism. There should be a much bigger emphasis on the freedom granted to the fanbase. The mods, scalable realism, server customization, etc. You should show that PC gamers can finally expect from a multiplayer game what they used to expect again.
You should also show off the realism. Full realism. It's what many people here want to see and it is what I think a lot of potential new players want to see too. There are surely many people who are bored with the state of recent FPS games, and to show footage of RO2 in its most radically different (realistic) form is exactly what they would love to see. I'm sure folks want to see a return to the true hardcore style that games have lost over time. Showing that there is a relaxed realism mode is important, but currently there is practically no realistic mode footage at all.

 

[Floyd]

Can you really tell otherwise? the point is we don't know.

For example, Ramm said in the competitive podcast, that no matter the server setting, you won't be able to play with a weapon you haven't unlocked yourseld. So I guess that if you don't unlock bayonets first you won't have it in the realistic setting.

Sorry, but without info, all we can do is assume stuff.

Ah, this is the first I've heard of this. If that means ALL unlocks and turns out to be true, then I my assumptions and comprehension of the settings are flawed. In that case perhaps, the bayonet Ingmar spoke of was an unlock for an unlocked German sniper rifle or some such something....

Constructive criticism is fine. Hard for me to find fault when there are no hard facts, though. How and when TW chooses to enlighten me is their call.

 

[MrLebanon]

The whole problem with catering to the "other side of the fence" is that I really doubt a significant amount of those people WANT Red Orchestra. Look, if they want a game like COD or BF, they'll buy MW3 or BF3.

Coming from the other side of the fence.. and with friends on the same side, I'd have to disagree. Anyone who plays CoD/BF on PC can for the most part see how downhill the series are both going (CoD is being CoD, and BF is heading towards CoD to take CoD players). Console gamers - different market (generally younger and don't focus on PC games much/at all)

Another thing to consider... not everyone wants to buy a super PC to play a fun PC game.
I for one, was drawn towards RO because of it's reasonable estimated system requirements. The various gameplay aspects I found out about later are all bonuses.

I think TWI is doing an OK PR job, but I do agree with what others have said in this thread:
They are not straight and to the point when it comes down to "what exactly is realism" and so on.
A straight answer would stop a lot of forum quarrels.

My 2 cents? The fact they're silent on it may mean they messed up big time on hitting the realism target based on forum feedback - and may be doing some last minute editing so they will not release what realism is until they've fixed that.

Either than that or they're not listening