Medic grenade? Mosin nagant? Dragon's breath shotgun?

[The Clown]

I'm trying to think how the dragon's breath shotgun would work. Assuming it works like the MAC-10 - projectile damage remains static regardless of perk level - then I can't see any use for it. It might be pretty effective on the lower difficulties but have you ever tried using a shotgun off perk? The lack of penetration makes killing even a group of clots a pain, and without the ability to accurately place shots it's entirely possible to have to fire multiple times to kill single gorefast when the pellets just don't line up with the body or head.
You have the burn damage to help, but it won't have time to take effect. Using a shotgun implies short range and with people complaining on these forums about how long it takes to kick in already, having to deal with it at only a few metres distance will exacerbate the problem.
It might be useful to fire at a group to set the lot of them alight, but the FT and husk gun already do that just fine, and won't suffer from random projectile placement.
Maybe if you made it spit out a 'tongue' flame in the form of a few 'shots' from the FT but stronger, it could be useful. Is there anything in those unused files on how it's supposed to work?

 

[Left 4 Dinner]

I'm trying to think how the dragon's breath shotgun would work. Assuming it works like the MAC-10 - projectile damage remains static regardless of perk level - then I can't see any use for it. It might be pretty effective on the lower difficulties but have you ever tried using a shotgun off perk? The lack of penetration makes killing even a group of clots a pain, and without the ability to accurately place shots it's entirely possible to have to fire multiple times to kill single gorefast when the pellets just don't line up with the body or head.
You have the burn damage to help, but it won't have time to take effect. Using a shotgun implies short range and with people complaining on these forums about how long it takes to kick in already, having to deal with it at only a few metres distance will exacerbate the problem.
It might be useful to fire at a group to set the lot of them alight, but the FT and husk gun already do that just fine, and won't suffer from random projectile placement.
Maybe if you made it spit out a 'tongue' flame in the form of a few 'shots' from the FT but stronger, it could be useful. Is there anything in those unused files on how it's supposed to work?

Maybe this "tonge' could be that the shotgun has a WIDE spread, thus its a way of spraying the zeds. If that is such, then it could be useful to get lots of zeds on fire, without having to use the flamethrower or nades. I guess its stats would be like

Range = medium/medium-high
Damage = low-medium/medium
Speed = slow/slow-medium

 

[Arblarg]

Well, regardless of if the icons are for new ranks or just new skins of the old ones, I'll be glad to see them. With how far I am from my screen, its often hard to tell the difference between demolitions and support specialist.

If they're a new higher level, that's cool, I can dig that. I'm almost certain though the file path is indicating its preset, which is almost synonymous with class.

Also to those of you complaining about berserkers, seriously...if it wasn't the way it was, it would be just like any other class using melee weapons. Practically what you're suggestion is the complete removal of the class. As for this -

Medics and Berserker need a VERY slight nerf/buff combo that prevents so many games from degenerating into 5 dead players watching a berserker run around. My suggestion would be giving all other classes a very slight speed boost on hard and higher. Know where near Medic/Berserker speed, but SOMETHING.

Perhaps you just shouldn't die as much? Berserkers and medics have that combination of increased speed and defense so when **** his the fan, they can get away. Hopefully they will be able to complete the wave so their 5 fallen Darwins' award winners can come back for another chance. Killing Floor has but 3 golden rules :
1. Do not stand still
2. Do NOT stand still
3. If you violate 1 & 2, you best be holing up in a good spot.

 

[Althamus]

I'd say the niche the shotgun could fill would be close range, to take out a siren or something. At the moment, if you need to kill something fast at close range, your main option is to hold M1 with FT and wait for a death rattle. Having something which needed to reload slowly, but packed a pretty hard punch with a few shells in the magasine and hit harder against single, larger zeds would basically fit the "close/mid range light/medium killer" that the firebug excels at, but give them a gun the complete opposite of the FT.

 

[psyko12]

Dragon's Breath Shogtun heh

 

[greenlemonade]

Perhaps you just shouldn't die as much? Berserkers and medics have that combination of increased speed and defense so when **** his the fan, they can get away. Hopefully they will be able to complete the wave so their 5 fallen Darwins' award winners can come back for another chance. Killing Floor has but 3 golden rules :
1. Do not stand still
2. Do NOT stand still
3. If you violate 1 & 2, you best be holing up in a good spot.

It isn't a matter of "don't die as much". If I am medic or Berserker then I end up the last man killing 130 specimens while 5 people waste there time watching or rage quit. That even without this extra survivability, the Medic and Berserker are great classes.

The ability to run away should not be limited to these two classes. What I'm suggesting is a slight movement speed boost for ALL other classes in Hard+. As it is now, Medic and Berserker are by far the best two classes.

Or better yet, a RO2 style ability added to the SHift key.
Holding shift lets you run for short bursts (shouldn't stack with speed boosts). Holding shift while aiming down sights gives a slight zoom in because lets face it, KF characters are near-sighted.

 

[Left 4 Dinner]

Or better yet, a RO2 style ability added to the SHift key.
Holding shift lets you run for short bursts (shouldn't stack with speed boosts). Holding shift while aiming down sights gives a slight zoom in because lets face it, KF characters are near-sighted.

Hmm, maybe if a person is really low on health, then they coud get a very short speed boost when being directly healed by a medic. Afterall, does a player run slower when their low on health? And if a medic can heal a person directly, then they can get a slight speed boost that would keep them going. As for how much of a speed boost, enough to make them run as if they are running with a melee weapon while at full health. It might not be a lot, but it should be enough to help none the less.

 

[Althamus]

Players move at -30% speed when on 1 HP.

AFAICS, your movement speed decrease is directly proportional to HPs, so if you get healed for 25 HPs, you'll increase your movement speed by quite a bit. If a medic pops 4 healing darts into your back over the course of 2 seconds, you'll get a massive speed boost compared to what you were just on.

However, in the vast majority of cases, trying to hit someone just about to die from zed to the back is quite hard (or maybe it's just me - I don't play medic). Most of the time they'll get healed way in advance of them getting to problem zone, or the medic will be busy or rushed to get them properly.

 

[pie1055]

However, in the vast majority of cases, trying to hit someone just about to die from zed to the back is quite hard (or maybe it's just me - I don't play medic). Most of the time they'll get healed way in advance of them getting to problem zone, or the medic will be busy or rushed to get them properly.

When playing medic, I feel it necessary to inform everyone that I can't heal stupid. Many times a player will take too much damage too fast and there is nothing anyone's healing syringes can do about it. That's simply the result of the game having healing done over time as opposed to instantaneously. For clarification, I am happy with it this way.

 

[greenlemonade]

Hmm, maybe if a person is really low on health, then they coud get a very short speed boost when being directly healed by a medic. Afterall, does a player run slower when their low on health? And if a medic can heal a person directly, then they can get a slight speed boost that would keep them going. As for how much of a speed boost, enough to make them run as if they are running with a melee weapon while at full health. It might not be a lot, but it should be enough to help none the less.

Not a bad suggestion, but would it reduce the frequency of whole teams dieing except the Berserkers and Medics? Why does the medic even get a speed boost at all?

I still like the idea of giving ALL classes a short "shift" run to increase survivablity very slightly.

 

[Althamus]

Why does the medic even get a speed boost at all?

Thesedays, pure-healing medics can sit at the back with impunity and just double medic gun into people, but I wonder if back then, medics were designed to not only use their medigun (singular), but also to run up to people and syringe them as well?

I guess he needs to be able to run over and tank big nasties as well, and raging scrakes move pretty quickish.

 

[Left 4 Dinner]

Thesedays, pure-healing medics can sit at the back with impunity and just double medic gun into people, but I wonder if back then, medics were designed to not only use their medigun (singular), but also to run up to people and syringe them as well?

I guess he needs to be able to run over and tank big nasties as well, and raging scrakes move pretty quickish.

thats what my thoughts were too, that the medic was meant to run faster, so he could directly heal people and to be able to run around and do odds and ends, such as tank damage, or to check on door weldings

 

[boneshock]

Thesedays, pure-healing medics can sit at the back with impunity and just double medic gun into people, but I wonder if back then, medics were designed to not only use their medigun (singular), but also to run up to people and syringe them as well?

I guess he needs to be able to run over and tank big nasties as well, and raging scrakes move pretty quickish.

Back at the release of killing floor, the medic had no medic gun, only the medic syringe.You had to run up to people and syringe them.

The medic gun has been added wayyyy later in the game.

 

[2sBlind]

Medic speed was to allow medics to cover distances and heal, since medics originally only had the syringe. You can imagine how painful it would be for example running around the tunnel in westlonden trying to heal everyone at normal speed (non boosted) while the SHTF and everyone's scattering.

Not to mention the syringe used to have HORRIBLE hit detection.

 

[greenlemonade]

So we've established that medics have the speed to aid in healing people. Though they now have a syringe-gun, this is still relevant as the team is often split up or around corners.

The speed does have the side-effect of making Medics and Berzerkers quite able to survive LONG after their teammates have all died.


So how can we make this more fun for everyone? Should we make all classes more capable of being the "last man standing", or make it more difficult for Berzerkers and Medics to do so?
I think we can all agree that some of the more exciting and fun moments are when you ARE the last man standing.

 

[Althamus]

I'd say a lowering of the medic's speed wouldn't be a terrible thing. If the bonus was half that of the current bonus, he'd still be able to move around, but the thing which required him to move around before (ie. get up close and syringe people) is no longer there, so for him to retain his speed bonus is unnecessary.

Berserkers I'm not sure. If he had no speed bonus, when he plays in a team-situation, he just wouldn't get kills because in the time it takes him to manouvre around, someone else would've killed the zed. Likewise, because he's intending to get up and personal, he WILL get hit more often than other classes, which means that unless he has some extra defences, he will die a lot sooner.

I think an additional part of the speed bonus is that the medic and berserker both have speed bonuses with their chosen weapons. If I'm playing another class and kiting with a zerker team, I'll need to weild my dagger just to have a chance of staying with them, at which point if I round a corner and see a gorefast right up close, I'll need to FIRST swap to another weapon, then shoot, as oppoesd to zerkers or medics can just M1.

 

[pie1055]

So how can we make this more fun for everyone? Should we make all classes more capable of being the "last man standing", or make it more difficult for Berzerkers and Medics to do so?
I think we can all agree that some of the more exciting and fun moments are when you ARE the last man standing.

Actually I've been tinkering around with a mut lately for just that purpose. What I have so far is a zerker with no movement speed bonus (his weapons already have a natural speed bonus) and a medic with a reduced bonus (15% at lv6). Unfortunately I have yet to test this in a group so I don't have a good feel for how this changes things- I am debating increasing the zerker's damage resistance as a counter to the complete lack of movement speed bonus.

I do not think it is necessary to increase the ability of other classes being last man standing. If you're lms on hoe I think you should have only a very slim chance of surviving, something I think works well for most perks as-is. Not to mention what kind of gameplay are you promoting if you make clutch plays a more viable strategy?

 

[greenlemonade]

Sounds cool pie.

What about just effecting the spawning of Zeds based on the living team's class make-up.

So if only berserkers and medics remain, each clot has a 20% chance of spawning as a crawler and each Gorefast has a 20% chance of spawning as a Husk. Scrakes have a 20% chance of spawning as Fleshpound.
Fleshpounds should also rage to catch berserkers and medics who run away.

This would mean, if you are last man standing berserker with only 30 zeds left, nothing would change. But if there were 80 left, you'd have a much harder time with the extra annoying guys thrown in.
Best of all, this would encourage these classes to try and keep there team alive instead of "going rambo" so much.

 

[Splatpope]

Nice to see TWI would rather grab premade stuff from the mod community rather than do their own conte- wait

 

[EidolonsFury]

This is my own guess, but I'm thinking once you choose to reset your perk, you'll initially have the new red one, and once you max it out again, it'll become gray, much like the current level 6 icon is gold. I'm thinking that the gray is supposed to be more like a platinum though, thus more valuable than gold.