M38 vs. MN30/91 vs. M44

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piller

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 2, 2006
289
0
0
The main difference that I noticed fireing is that with longer shots the bullet tends to drop a little more
 

piller

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 2, 2006
289
0
0
I think the M38's does. it has a slower muzzle velocity according to the manual
 

Cosmoline

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2006
10
0
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The carbines should have more bullet drop, as the shorter barrels decrease fps by a notch.
 

Cosmoline

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2006
10
0
0
This is correct. Soviet rifles were zeroed in with the bayonets as Soviet doctrine says soldiers could only dismount their bayonets when ordered. (unlike in other militaries where you could only mount your bayonet when ordered.)

For this simple reason, I prefer the M44 except when I can't use it, then the M91. No real point to use the M38 if you aren't on a horse.

That's true, they were supposed to keep them attached. The Soviets loved their bayonets, and they are probably the most lethal of all WWII era bayonets. They're long enough to perforate a torso but shaped to come out easily. The game should probably start with the bayo fixed and leave taking it off as an option. But I'm just impressed they have bayonets at all!

I've never noticed an accuracy improvement with pigsticker on in the 91/30's. The M-44's accuracy can decrease if the bayo is folded, but this is due to stock impingement from the pressure of the bayonet. The soviets didn't do a terribly good job of sighting in to begin with, so any minute difference in accuracy from the vibration changes in the barrel with the bayonet attached wouldn't be enough to make any noticable difference.
 

GonzoX

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 6, 2006
708
0
0
home.roadrunner.com
No actually there is a good reason to have the M38.

Most maps are before 1944 and the M44 wasn't introduced until late 1943 IIRC.

And even then it was really just an experiment and was not issued in large numbers compared to the 91/30 even in 1945.

The M38 was issued to non-front line units like artillary etc but was common everywhere.

On the issue of the range of the carbines, this is really a moot argument because even though the M38 and 44 have a shorter range, they are still 300 yard rifles and since most RO maps are under 100 yards in size, the shorter range of the carbine does not even come into play.

Just my two Reichsmark worth.
 

popbob

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 12, 2006
97
0
0
39
NYC
I will always use the M91 or M44, but if i'm feeling cocky and want to buttsmack a few people instead of use my bayo (yes, I know the M91 can do smacks also) I'll take the M38
 

Sasha_Suvorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 3, 2006
64
2
0
Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Really, the choice of weapons in-game should rightly be determined by the time frame of that particular engagement anyway.

In any case, though, if game mechanics could be modelled for real sticklers for detail regarding rifle availability, there would be a percentage of 91/30's, a percentage of '44's , etc. with the great majority probably going to 91/30's all around as they were (and still ARE) a proven weapon with a long production history.

Personally, in-game I tend to err on the side of historical and prefer a 91/30; I'm not so sure the game mechanics are to the point where accuracy in-game is affected by a fixed bayonet, but from my own Real Life (tm) experience the only effect the extra weight up front has is to get my sights back on target a fraction of a second faster. Certainly, line troops would have fought with bayonet fixed as a rule, but their engagements were really not meant to be fought at much more than close range anyway- so bayonet 'harmonics' and all wouldn't have had that much of an effect anyway. As for snipers, they wouldn't have had any reason to fix a bayonet as the added weapon length would have only been another thing to advertise their position, and since they sighted in with the telescopic sight anyway, whatever non-bayonet residual 'barrel warping' there might have been would have long been compensated for.

(BTW: jgsales.com has MN 91/30's for under $80, with sling, oiler, bayonet, take-down tool, and dual cartridge pouch. All you need is a C&R license from the BATF <$30 for three years> and they'll ship it to your house. Or grab one from a gun show for about the same, extras maybe included. Either way, you'll be getting an arsenal refinished weapon that has probably seen combat somewhere from the Spanish Civil War on up, and most likely in the Great Patriotic War. I presently have a M-1 Garand, and I will soon be adding at least one MN 91/30 when my raise hits next spring!)
 

Tak

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 10, 2006
1,855
96
0
East Coast, USA
Ahh Sasha I steals ur gunz!! >>

*steals M1*


All that nonsense aside, Gonz hit it head on about the accuracy differences. In game terms, it comes down to personal preference. I like the 91/30 over the 38, but will take the M44 over either if it's available.
 

PermenentMarker

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 20, 2006
1,448
222
0
Montreal Quebec
www.coolit-online.com
Last time I posted here, I was a Rifle Noob

Now I am a little better and I CONSTANTLY change...

I no longer use the mn9130... I just find it LONG.

If the M44 is available its my first pic
besides that, I use the M38

And I will drop them to use a kar98 if its on the floor...
Nothing better then shooting the ennemy with their own bullets.

I personally Feel that the M44 and M38 are faster in most ways, accuracy is not an issue with me, I actually think I have better luck with the M38...

However... I think that it is all in our heads.
Personal taste.

And my personal taste is to have a shorter rifle.
 

BeserkWraithlor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2006
461
0
0
Arizona
M44 is the best choice for Russians, its as accurate as any other rifle, and a bayonet is good for saving ammo. Sorry M38, but buttsmacks are too weak to be useful.
 

popbob

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 12, 2006
97
0
0
39
NYC
M44 is the best choice for Russians, its as accurate as any other rifle, and a bayonet is good for saving ammo. Sorry M38, but buttsmacks are too weak to be useful.

Are you kidding me? Butt smacks are very strong if you let them charge up for a little bit (2 seconds) then hit the enemy.
 

BeserkWraithlor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2006
461
0
0
Arizona
No, they are weak, seeing that it takes 2 charged hits to kill, and it takes too long to charge up. A guy will simply shoot you, and you drop, even if you get him from behind. Sure, a single smack in the head kills, but you are never going to hit that spot against a moving or prone target. Better off shooting.

Bayonets are 1 hit kill, even to the chest, which makes it useful for sneaking up on targets who don't notice you. Great save on ammo.
 

Rapp

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 2, 2006
134
0
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yeah a charged buttsmack to the head is an instant kill kinda like a bayonet into the torso region is instant kill.

anyway the m44 and m38 are slightly less 'accurate' than the 91/30 but only at longer ranges or for pixel precise shots and i mean pixel. you cant really tell the difference between them on most maps and i think the accuracy might be more of a random deviation where 3 in every 10 shots goes off little perhaps.

ill take the m44 for city maps like danzig where your sprint can get you right into a capzone and putting on the bayo slows you down. 91/30 for a more open map like konigplatz
 

Rapier_21

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2006
12
0
0
I used to only take the 91/30 or the M44, because they had the bayo.

Then I put some time in on the M38, and it pretty much replaces the 91/30 for me on any map that doesn't have the M44. I don't find much use for the 91/30, when you have an equally effective carbine that does the same job without being like 9 miles long.

Sure, it's (marginally) less accurate, but it's a lot smaller, and if you put a little effort into learning how to hipshoot, the loss of the bayo is insignifigant. The accuracy loss really only matters if you're trying to make a long-range or difficult shot, say shooting into a window at a sniper/MG, and then usually you're better off saving the round and letting your sniper deal with him.

I'll still drop either of them for a K98k anyways.
 

Pdog

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 22, 2006
120
42
0
91/30 all the time. I don't even bother with the carbines or the m44.
I'm an accuracy and bayonet whore. I always attach the bayo and the 91/30 is still hella accurate with it on. I find it easier to shoot down the sights with the 91/30 they seem brighter and easier to line up shots with it.
I've used the m38 to see if it was any better hipshooting but i couldn't really notice any improvement over the 91/30. Besides at that range its better to stab.