Level Design Karlovka 2:

[Cpt-Praxius]

I've done a lot of modeling and modding for UT2004 and a few other things I had ideas on around the same time... I've even worked on a level a while back for UT2004, but have been out of the loop for a long while and feel I need to get back into designing such things.

I posted an idea for a FPS Fighting Mod and thought about working on that, but it'd be biting off more than I can chew at this stage, so perhaps I should start off a little slower and work on a map for RO2 instead, and then go from there.

One map I loved in the mod was RO-Karlovka..... it was dynamic, addictive and the winner of the round was usually determined by seconds or 1-2 players left, being very tight matches and team work being a very important role in the map to prevent getting steam rolled.

I don't remember seeing anybody working on this map for RO1..... so perhaps this is where I should start off with my map designing.

Even today I still know that map inside and out and knew the elements that made it great:

Original Map Layout:

Screenshots:

^ Bridge 1/House & RB1

^ Road Blocks 2 & 3 (Bridge 2)

^ Soviet View of Bridge 2 (RB2 & 3)

^ Farm Objective

^ I am not sure if I would increase the size of the map or add more objectives at this stage, but I'll certainly be focusing more on the details, as well as many other aspects.

It wouldn't make sense to carbon copy Karlovka, but I'll certainly be using the old map as a basis for something similar.

For those who remember, the House Objective included a large house on the right of the road, and a couple of smaller houses behind the larger one and the other across the street. I'm thinking of including a number of houses on both sides of the street past Bridge 1, so that it can be used as a bit of a death trap from both sides (more than what existed in the original map)

I would keep the death river to help with defence for the soviets, but perhaps add a small area of ice for germans to cross between the bridges, which I might even try to make destroyable by the Russians to force the Germans back to B1 and B2, but I'll see how that pans out.

The Farm would be a lot more detailed and actually look like a farm, with a decent sized, multi-floored house with a large barn & equipment to use for cover, rather than the small little hut with the small little shed that was in the original.

The Hill the Germans have by their spawn (Between B1 and B2) will have even more cover & more trees to help with advancing to the objectives. At the same time, the hill by the house that the Russians use would also have more trees and more cover to use. In the original Karlovka, to me it seemed players on the hills were almost always exposed and easy to spot.

The Ammo Cache will be similar to how it was in the original Karlovka, but I may make my own tweaks to its layout and perhaps make two floors of ammo cache to blow up, rather than just one.

The last road block will be similar to the original, but I plan on including more buildings around the area for better defence, as well as offence.

Due to all of these changes, chances are the map will be larger than the original.... I plan on adding more buildings due to the larger amount of players RO2 can support.... and while 64 players is still a little buggy on some servers, I suspect in the future that will improve.

So with a possibility of 64 players, the map will require more buildings, more cover, the tanks will be back in the game.... perhaps ensuring there are two tanks for each team.

Half-Tracks will of course be a must, as they were in the original, but I'd also include transports for the Russians as well (which they never had in the original Karlovka)

This map, while having more buildings and larger ones at that, will also still be great maps for marksman, so I might make it two marksman per team depending on how well things work out..... or keep it to just one per team.

And of course, Arty would be in the map.

And lastly, Engineers/Anti-Tank classes are a must for this map..... the Germans can't win the map without someone on their team carrying satchels and at the same time, their team needs to cover their butts as they rush the road blocks and ammo caches, thus team work is heavily required on both sides.

I would also increase the round timer to something longer than what existed in the original.... sometimes the Germans would take a good 10 minutes to break the Russian's defence at Bridge1/2 & House and even if the russians gave up, there was hardly enough time for the Germans to take the remaining objectives.... so I'll figure that out when I get there.

But I think with these changes/additions, with RO2 game physics and detail, this could be a pretty damn good map.

Whenever I find the SDK and get to play with it, I'll start to layout the map and update this thread as information/content becomes available.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Ok so I made a rough draft layout on how I'd redo this map.

Attached to this post is a PDF layout with legend showing my first proposal on Karlovka 2.

• Germans first spawn in the southern area of the map, by the house/tanks/HT's

• Russians spawn in the northern area of the houses just past Bridge 1.

• After Bridge1/House is capped by the Germans, their new spawn is the southern area of the houses, by Bridge 1. Panzers spawn on bridge, while one HT is located east of the houses.... Russians spawn North of Farm.

• Farm is a capable objective with nothing to destroy, I will probably model up a tractor and other objects for cover.

• Two ammo caches exist that need to be destroyed as well as the final road block by the train tracks.

• When Farm is capped by the Germans, Russians spawn at the far north, past the railroad, Germans spawn at Farm.

I would also add a number of fences and other objects for cover.

There are also wooded areas for infantry to use at their discretion which won't be accessible to transports, and I'm not sure if it'd be a pain in the butt to allow tanks to pass through, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.... pun intended.

 

[Le0]

Nice work so far, I guess you'll be modelling some trees and stuff for your map?

The plan you made is pretty nice, I'd like to ask what tool did you use to make it? I'd like to make something similar for mine

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Nice work so far, I guess you'll be modelling some trees and stuff for your map?

The plan you made is pretty nice, I'd like to ask what tool did you use to make it? I'd like to make something similar for mine

Thanks..... Downloading UDK to get started.... I used Illustrator to layout the plan. Nothing's to proper scale and I did rush it a bit, but it's mainly to get the gist of where I'm gonna start.

Terrain will be the first thing I start, which is basically what defined the original Karlovka. Then the details come in after that, such as buildings, trees and other map placements.

The pale green areas are where clusters of trees and bushes will be located. The grey areas are the hilly areas like what you see in the above Post 1 images, but smoother and updated of course.

In the original, there was a plane that was shot down around the area noted in my PDF but it was kind of out of the way and not used for anything really..... so I'm going to move it to an area that can be used for marksman, MG's, AT's or anybody else who needs cover.

In the original map, beyond the playing area, everything was in a pit and the distance was just flat snow with scattered trees, mostly looking like a snowy desert.

The dark green area is instead, a thicker forest area which you don't go beyond, or you die.... just for a slightly more visually-realistic look.

The Forward Command Posts will be those little mini log forts, with an ammo cache and radio so the Commanders can be closer to their troops & help with the offense or defense.

Road Blocks require AT/Engineer Classes with Satchels to clear so reinforcements can move up later on, as well as getting the tanks inside the cap zones. When the road blocks are cleared, the house/bridge 1 is available for capture and lockdown will be removed from the game.

As for player counts.... if the player count is less than 32, then Bridge 2 is not required to be cleared in order to move forward and cap the houses. If the count is 32 or more, then both bridges are required to be cleared before advancing towards the houses.

Lockdown will be around 10 minutes depending on how test runs work out.

The white areas will be more flat land.... bumpy, but not hilly, with bushes, craters, debris, dead cows and fences in proper areas, such as around the houses.

Most of the homes will be 3 floors, the smaller ones will be 2.

UDK is about 1/3 downloaded.....

.... Oh and the tree lines will help engineers get closer to the road blocks to blow them up and with smoke grenades being a factor for the first time, it will bring more of a challenge for the Russians.

Tanks can also use these tree lines for covering their approach or popping a barrel through for different covering angles.

Environment:

I'm thinking that since I won't be basing this on any specific battle (Not yet anyways) I might switch it to a night map, with snow. The river will have chunks of ice flowing by in a swift current. Anybody who goes in will be swept away and freeze to death.

 

[Proud_God]

Awesome map, it really felt like a combined arms affair. Go for it!

 

[worluk]

Try to improve the transition from the middle, houses objective to the railroad objectives. Basically Karlovka was mostly fun on the bridges and, at least to me, the rest was 'meh'

With the dark, green marked forrest, try to not take away the sniping and long distance fun at the bridges.

 

[Sensemann]

Good luck for this project. I loved Karlovka as well. Just one thing: Please DO NOT MAKE IT A NIGHT MAP!

I don't know why but I somehow don't like night maps too much. Since your map would be away from a city, it would be pitch black I suppose and the beauty of the map would be lost.

 

[Britney Federline]

I'm excited to hear that Karlovka maybe coming back. It was a map that was cool enough that it was a favorite, even though it had a good number of issues in gameplay (a bit too much funneling of players into the bridges, lack of clear flow after the farmhouse). I still remember learning how to pick people off with my carbine mosin from the hilltops, being clever about sneaking around the middle farm section, and making a mad dash to the last objective, which was hardly ever won by the attackers.

I'm curious to see how you end up handling the distances in the new version--with zoom and easier weapon handling, everything will seem much closer than it did before, so I'm thinking you'll have to stretch things out a bit to make the game play work. Have fun!

 

[Roland Kaul]

I started playing right as ROOST was released. So I don't remember this map. It looks awesome however, great work Capt. Praxius.

Can't wait to see (and play) your map (or beta versions!).


Keep up the great work.

<0

 

[Tomcat_ha]

i loved this map.
good luck

 

[Nezzer]

Please Praxius, no lockdown

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Try to improve the transition from the middle, houses objective to the railroad objectives. Basically Karlovka was mostly fun on the bridges and, at least to me, the rest was 'meh'

With the dark, green marked forrest, try to not take away the sniping and long distance fun at the bridges.

Actually, based on my PDF layout, I've made even more area for sniping and long distance.... many of the hills in the original Karlovka were too steep for players to scale up, especially along the edges of the playing area..... the big hill by the house the russians use, and the big hill the germans used across the river were basically the two main hills players could use, while the hills on the outer edges of the playing area were too steep, preventing the players from wandering off the edge of the map.

I plan on making these hills less steep so you can move farther outside of the normal playing area, but cut off by thicker tree lines similar to how the forests in Arad prevented players from going outside of the playing area..... and as mentioned before, the lighter green areas will be clusters of bushes and trees that troops can use to advance or flank.

And yes.... I found that in the original Karlovka, the Russians could hold the bridges for a long while making it very difficult for the germans to advance (but fun as hell) but as soon as the Germans took the bridges/house, it then became more difficult for the Russians to defend the remaining objectives.

I'm going to include more buildings and more areas for the russians to defend those areas, while also giving the germans a number of areas they can advance from without being out in the open the whole time.

The ammo cache area will be designed at a train station for the town/village, being at least two floors with lots of windows for defence and long range combat..... I will also probably make a few walls or doorways to be blown by satchels to give the germans more areas to break past the defence.

The barn at the farm will also be two floors, with a hole in the roof for rifleman and marksman...... the house will also be at least two floors as well..... giving a lot of areas for close quarters combat.

As an update, I started working on the terrain last night, created the river area and started with the hills, but I am not pleased at the placement so far and will probably give it another attempt later today.

Good luck for this project. I loved Karlovka as well. Just one thing: Please DO NOT MAKE IT A NIGHT MAP!

I don't know why but I somehow don't like night maps too much. Since your map would be away from a city, it would be pitch black I suppose and the beauty of the map would be lost.

Well I'll be planning on it being a semi-cloudy night with flurries but the moon will be out, so it won't be pitch dark, and when I lay out the entire map, it will be geared to being a small village/town with illuminated lamp posts / street lights, etc.

Right at bridge 1 those houses will be laid out as the residential area of the town, past that will be a farm with a few other houses scattered around, and then past that will be a train station with another smaller cluster of residential buildings past the rail bridge.

The thing I found with the original map was that it was kind of scattered and spread out with not much around except some trees and barren snow & hills. I plan on making this map a bit more populated looking.

I haven't tried this before, but with the various lamp posts and lights within the buildings, it should have a good amount of lighting, but might try and make various elements destructible, in that if an arty strike hits a certain area, or if bullets take lights out, that area would become darker of course, either making it harder or easier to attack/defend.

Along the roads there will also be street lights, some working, some not.... so it won't be too dark.... and would probably be more illuminated than say Red October Factory..... possibly more like Barracks.... but perhaps a wee bit darker.

Of course the Russians could also shoot out many of the lamps before the germans arrive to the bridges so that it's darker and harder for them to be spotted in the house area.

Chances are I'll probably test the map out in both night and day to see which is better.

If it ends up a night map, then it will be a full moon, partly cloudy night with flurries.

If it ends up as a day map, then it will be cloudy, very windy and with heavy snowfall.

The original Karlovka was just cold looking with not much going for environmental conditions.

I'm excited to hear that Karlovka maybe coming back. It was a map that was cool enough that it was a favorite, even though it had a good number of issues in gameplay (a bit too much funneling of players into the bridges, lack of clear flow after the farmhouse). I still remember learning how to pick people off with my carbine mosin from the hilltops, being clever about sneaking around the middle farm section, and making a mad dash to the last objective, which was hardly ever won by the attackers.

I'm curious to see how you end up handling the distances in the new version--with zoom and easier weapon handling, everything will seem much closer than it did before, so I'm thinking you'll have to stretch things out a bit to make the game play work. Have fun!

Indeed... with a possible player count of 64 from an original 32 and with the zoom/focus, the map will be spread out a bit more, the bridges will be a bit larger, the houses are going to be larger with more floors and I'll try and stretch out the map overall.

And I realized last night I'll also have to make sure it works well with Countdown and FireFight.

But as a general rule of thumb I'm going to use, is that this new map will not be as barren looking.... there will be piles of cover, piles of places to snipe from, the Germans will have a forward command post for their commander (so he no longer has to run halfway across the map to get to the radio)

Lockdown will be quite long so the Germans have a chance and the overall round timer will also be quite long so that most matches will either be won by the germans capturing all the objectives or the russians wipe out all their reinforcements..... but that might change.

Please Praxius, no lockdown

I completely understand, I'm not a big fan of Lockdown either, but if my plans for a long round timer is implemented, then most matches will either be determined by all objectives captured or if one team is wiped out..... to give the Russians a better chance of winning, if they can hold Bridge 1/Houses for say 10-15 minutes, that should be long enough and lockdown should be reached.

Again, nothings written in stone yet and I might just leave it out.

I started playing right as ROOST was released. So I don't remember this map. It looks awesome however, great work Capt. Praxius.

Can't wait to see (and play) your map (or beta versions!).


Keep up the great work.

<0

Thanks.... yeah, out of all the RO's, this map was and still is my favorite.

It's hard to find any videos of anybody playing this map, but I'll see if I can find one.

The reason why I loved this map so much was how every class, every vehicle, every tank, every element of what existed in RO:CA was tossed into that game and played important roles, and battles were pretty intense.

As a Russian I loved taking the T34 and holding Bridge 1.... mowing down and killing all the German Engineers as they rushed the roadblocks and giving the Panzers a run for their money.... and as a German, I loved the rush of running with satchel in hand to the road blocks with everybody shooting at me.... then dropping to prone at the last second, tossing my satchel, keeping my head down with grenades and bullets wizzing all around.

Fun times.

Added:

Red Orchestra InGame - Guided Panzerfaust - YouTube

^ This is the only video I can find online of the map, which only seems to have two or three players on it screwing around with panzerfausts....

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

^ So I decided that it'd be easier to make a height map to form the terrain and then tweak the details when I get into UDK. When I get home later, I'll give it a shot and see how it looks.

 

[Sensemann]

@all
Currently, it shows the following under the OP "2 out of 5 members like this post."

How people can downvote someone that is working on a new map is beyond me. Even if someone would be making de_dust for RO2 he wouldn't deserve to get downvoted. Somebody is spending his time to give the community some new content and then "2 out of 5 members like this post."

Now I am often disagreeing with Cpt-Praxius myself but this whole upvoting/downvoting, like/dislike stuff on the internet is just dumb.

My god, grow up...

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

@all
Currently, it shows the following under the OP "2 out of 5 members like this post."

How people can downvote someone that is working on a new map is beyond me. Even if someone would be making de_dust for RO2 he wouldn't deserve to get downvoted. Somebody is spending his time to give the community some new content and then "2 out of 5 members like this post."

Now I am often disagreeing with Cpt-Praxius myself but this whole upvoting/downvoting, like/dislike stuff on the internet is just dumb.

My god, grow up...

I can't say I noticed the votes on my post.... though I don't pay attention to them much at all.

I'm suspecting it's the same couple of members who've been down voting most of my posts in the last week or so, even when my posts don't pick a side of an argument and even when I'm helping out other members.... I get 1-2 down votes.

They've been doing this to try and take my little green bars down, which used to be longer than it is now..... last week I had as many bars as you do now.

A couple of people just don't like me.... oh well, no loss for me, and it's not going to stop me from working on this map or posting in other threads.

Some people just need to get a life.

Added:

Hey, check it out.... there's those same two down votes again, what did I tell ya?

 

[Jorg Biermann1]

@all

Now I am often disagreeing with Cpt-Praxius myself but this whole upvoting/downvoting, like/dislike stuff on the internet is just dumb.

My god, grow up...

This is why Tripwire needs to add a little button next to the "2 members like this post" which then lists the people that have liked and disliked it. Then we can shame them!

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

This is why Tripwire needs to add a little button next to the "2 members like this post" which then lists the people that have liked and disliked it. Then we can shame them!

If we're going to have the system, might as well.... I see it like that in other forums... not everyone, but some have this system.

In regards to an update, I have the terrain basically laid out now. Just have to do the texturing and such. Couldn't figure out how to get my damn height map to import so I did it by hand.

 

[Le0]

did you try by going into terrain mode and then select your heightmap in the export panel, then clicking insert in current and only heightmap?

Anyway, I often feel that laying out your terrain by hand is more efficient

 

[Xendance]

If we're going to have the system, might as well.... I see it like that in other forums... not everyone, but some have this system.

In regards to an update, I have the terrain basically laid out now. Just have to do the texturing and such. Couldn't figure out how to get my damn height map to import so I did it by hand.

You have to convert the heightmap into the G16 format first.
I think you can use this program to do it.
http://www.lilchips.com/hmesbeta.asp

 

[Devil_Inside]

Hey mate, that's great news.
I started playing RO from ROOST, so I've never played this map, but damn, I miss that kind of open terrain maps in RO2.
Wish you luck and enough patience to finish it.

With lots of total conversion mods and mod teams, it seems that there are no level designers left in the community that might work on maps for RO2. So I'm really glad that there are still people working on something. It's also great that you keep posting updates on your progress. Keep up the good work!