Insurgency Mod ... EPIC THREAD OF DOOM
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It's impossible to get a good game on INS anymore, the hacks are starting to pour in.
Add CS hackers into a garbage game, and you get an even more CSish CS!
Add CS hackers into a garbage game, and you get an even more CSish CS!
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Regarding Insurgency: you know you got a problem when on any given evening you have to scroll 2 pages of empty servers to find an almost full server with: ins_dust2_r4.
When you claim a relistic game and you have any part of the word 'dust' in the maps for that game - you have a problem IMHO.
Thank god they finally plan to put SVD into the game though. The weapon choices are slowly getting more realistic..
Regarding the Rrrreloading!:
go to
C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\SourceMods\Insurgency\sound\vox\iraqi\
rename normal to 'BAKnormal' and 'foreign' to 'normal'.
When you claim a relistic game and you have any part of the word 'dust' in the maps for that game - you have a problem IMHO.
Thank god they finally plan to put SVD into the game though. The weapon choices are slowly getting more realistic..
Regarding the Rrrreloading!:
go to
C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\SourceMods\Insurgency\sound\vox\iraqi\
rename normal to 'BAKnormal' and 'foreign' to 'normal'.
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I hope they keep the insurgent voice commands for a while, they crack me up everytime.
"Rrrrequestr reinforcermentsr!"
"Engageh da enemee!"
All coming from a 17 year-old Iraqi.
I've hardly played that mod the last couple of months though, they need to add anti-TK means etc, and it's annoying that the player often ends up with a weapon he doesn't want. They forgot to add strafing too. Hopefully the patch fixes all that.
"Rrrrequestr reinforcermentsr!"
"Engageh da enemee!"
All coming from a 17 year-old Iraqi.
I've hardly played that mod the last couple of months though, they need to add anti-TK means etc, and it's annoying that the player often ends up with a weapon he doesn't want. They forgot to add strafing too. Hopefully the patch fixes all that.
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(little rant)
(little rant)
They are rolling out a new version - beta2 of Insurgency. They posted some preview pics on their front page, and IMHO the game HAS(!) become another CS style piece of **** (forgive my language please) with one exception. That exception is the damage system; other than that that crap looks like some Counter Strike mod.
IMHO they ought to drop the use of the word "simulates" in their front page and the rest of the website to describe the game, it's erroneous and misleading.
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my 2 cents
(little rant)
They are rolling out a new version - beta2 of Insurgency. They posted some preview pics on their front page, and IMHO the game HAS(!) become another CS style piece of **** (forgive my language please) with one exception. That exception is the damage system; other than that that crap looks like some Counter Strike mod.
IMHO they ought to drop the use of the word "simulates" in their front page and the rest of the website to describe the game, it's erroneous and misleading.
--
my 2 cents
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Agree with your low estime for INS. I tried it but I couldn't stick with this game and got bored after 2 weeks of play...
BUT either those new screenies are heavily photoshopped or they gave the game a serious facelift.
Oh and that map (from beta1, visible on the new screenshot of the Dragunov) where you have to 'conquer the hill' HAS TO GO. The ridiculously low draw-distance of the game engine makes it a total joke.
BUT either those new screenies are heavily photoshopped or they gave the game a serious facelift.
Oh and that map (from beta1, visible on the new screenshot of the Dragunov) where you have to 'conquer the hill' HAS TO GO. The ridiculously low draw-distance of the game engine makes it a total joke.
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Looks like a pretty good update. At least now they've added an overhead map. One of the biggest problems with INS is that people don't know how to play the game.
Who knows, maybe if they fix the important stuff I might play it again some time. The graphics still look the same to me btw.
Who knows, maybe if they fix the important stuff I might play it again some time. The graphics still look the same to me btw.
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No, it'd still be a pile of absolute crap. What's your beef with Source? It kill your dog and slap you around in your sleep? For a highly upgradeable and scalable engine, you sure have a lot of unnecessary and unfounded hate.
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Unfounded? have you just skimmed this thread? people have been giving quite a volume of good reasons why the Source engine is just not good enough for this kind of game, its just plain the wrong kind of engine.
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And you really think the UE3 is any better suited? No. Both engines can be modded to whatever degree the team needs. The mod team is lazy, and the mod is uninspired no matter what engine it appears on.
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His sig reads "CS Nation Staff" if anything, it at least means that he *likes* the Source Source engine since cs is on it.
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My bad, I take it back. Didn't think it was professional, thought it was just a gamer's thing.
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You'd be wrong.
I seriously can't see how UE3.0 would improve this game, after the Source engine update of friday.
Perhaps maybe the physics and graphics would take advantage...
The Source engine was known for it's crappy vegetation rendering and draw distance.
But since the release of Episode 2, both are fixed.
What Insurgency needs to do is adapt their game to it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like Insurgency at all.
But I do think they have some interesting features and concepts. Shame they just dropped half of it what would make it much better.
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Yes! the UE3 engine is MUCH better suited!
To make a realistic game/mod (lets just call it a "TS" from here, short for "Tactical Shooter"), you need some stuff to pull it off, stuff the Source engine does not provide, but the Unreal engine has been giving us since UT2003 (since the origional Unreal infact if we dont count rolling hill landscapes, but can live with very polygonal landscapes).
We need landscape and support for large maps, and open spaces, Source does not do any of this, the engine can render some outside scenery in singleplayer, but we've seen time and time again that its just not working online (and a series of canyons is not a rolling landscape, just FYI), which is why every MP shooter on the Source engine is by and large set in urban suroundings, on fairly small maps with paths and choke points, surounded by fake backdrop, thats fine for CS, CS is just that and has allways been that, but if we are going the route of realism, then thats just not good enough, its only a small fraction of the possible combat locations you could think of and want to impliment.
The lack of scale and landscape is not acceptable for any TS.
Netcode is also a big problem, Hitbox detection for instance is absolute rubbish on Source! you may not notice it much playing CS or HL2DM, but with a TS the need for precision is much higher, and higher than Source will deliver.
Same with its "Lag compensation" system, whoever thought up that one should be hung from the nearest light pole, having to shoot at where the enemy just was, and not where he is right now is just not acceptable for a TS, again, we need more precision, infact, i'd rather see a bad case of warping than this in a TS!
Likewise the ping, a TS is by and large a fringe thing, usually having a small but dedicated community, but this also means fewer servers, and people having to play with higher pings as a result, Source hates high pings, much more so than many other engines (including Unreal), many other games you can ping 200 or 300 and still be good to go, but with Source, you want double digits and no higher than that, or the problems start to rear their ugly head..
Projectile support is also rubbish, Source bogs down very quickly with many objects in the air, hence its reliance on Hitscan weapons, or projectile weapons that fire very slowly (such as rocket launchers and the like).
But there is nothing real about Hitscan, and again, Unreal has used projectiles on automatic weapons since its inception and can pull it off!
HL2's movement system does not work well with realism either, has to be rewritten compleately.. and im not sure that would be legal, as i think its engine level code (by law, you may not touch engine level code unless you own a valid license for that engine, you may only build ontop of it).
And there are many other things i dont like, but they are personal gripes so i'll keep them out of the debate, but the lack of map size and real landscapes alone is enough to shoot down the Source engine as a good choice for a TS, you just plain need that, or you will end up with just another CS clone, and add all the others and you have a lame duck.
Imagine if RO only had maps like Danzig, would it really have been any different than DoD:S then?
The Source engine is great at what it does, and if i was making a story driven singleplayer mod, Source would be in the top 5 engines i'd considder using, but for MP it has several problems due to its netcode, other engines are just plain giving us the same or more, and better, and you cannot deny that, it doesen't give us anything special, it does not have support for massive player counts, it does not have have a high tollerance for bad connections, and nothing we have seen thus far could not just aswell have been made on any number of other current engines (hell, i bet CS could run fine on the Doom3 engine.. not that i'd ever considder that one for a TS either, but you get the point, one could make a CS clone on that engine and it would work just fine), it is not a unique and beutifull snowflake!
And for a TS, Source is out of the question! its just not scaleable enough, trying to simulate real life is the hardest thing to do with any game, and you need a "jack of all trades" engine if you are to have any hope of doing it, Source is definately not a "jack of all trades" engine, it is definately geared twords singleplayer, with run of the mill MP support added.
UED 2.5 is a much better choice for a TS than Source, and now we're getting UED 3.0, and it looks to me it will be even better suited than 2.5 was, thus far atleast.
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Grobut wins the thread. Source is a bad engine for any other gametype than twitchy arcade shooters. For example, take The Hidden. you'd think it would be a tactical experience to play as Subject 617, but it still feels like CS to do that. Not stealth, but bunnyhopping etc pays off.
Source is a reflex-shooter engine...
Oh and then INS of course, just look at it: the movement system sucks, you get stuck on everything every five seconds. It almost impossible to have bullet ballistics. And another thing, Source is far from scaleable , lol. It runs bad on medium-end computers. Whereas UE not only looks, but also runs, great. Oh and the physics can be really annoying. How often does the player get stuck on an object on the ground? Very often.
If Source was so scalable you'd see it being used much more often... and not just for arcade games.
The most optimized, tweakable, and stable engine on the market right now, is UE3. And that is a fact.
Anyway there are many more reasons, but you just have to look at it from a neutral point of view, and then you will see that Source is pretty much the worst choice you can make if you want to make a realistic FPS.
My post probably doesn't come off as very coherent, my apologies...
Source is a reflex-shooter engine...
Oh and then INS of course, just look at it: the movement system sucks, you get stuck on everything every five seconds. It almost impossible to have bullet ballistics. And another thing, Source is far from scaleable , lol. It runs bad on medium-end computers. Whereas UE not only looks, but also runs, great. Oh and the physics can be really annoying. How often does the player get stuck on an object on the ground? Very often.
If Source was so scalable you'd see it being used much more often... and not just for arcade games.
The most optimized, tweakable, and stable engine on the market right now, is UE3. And that is a fact.
Anyway there are many more reasons, but you just have to look at it from a neutral point of view, and then you will see that Source is pretty much the worst choice you can make if you want to make a realistic FPS.
My post probably doesn't come off as very coherent, my apologies...
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The movement basics (of which I think isn't hardcoded in), hitbox problems and the hitscan detection (might be hardcoded in) are a pain in the ***.
But vegetation and landscape rendering are improved and now at least offers descent view distance.
Of course, it isn't as far as in RO afaik, but it's been significantly improved.
Graphically, one thing that lacks in modern engines (UE3.0, Source) is the absence of detail textures.
Even with
But vegetation and landscape rendering are improved and now at least offers descent view distance.
Of course, it isn't as far as in RO afaik, but it's been significantly improved.
Graphically, one thing that lacks in modern engines (UE3.0, Source) is the absence of detail textures.
Even with
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Thouse are singleplayer, yes? and still, they are canyons, so whilst the draw distatance is better, thease are still "corridor" maps, you could not make a huge battle field here, just the usuall "assault on canyon town" sort of deal at best, but more so you'd still see the ususall "town with many streets" sort of thing.
Even RO has that beat, on an engine from 2004, for scale and versatillity.
And as you noted, there's still the arcady movement and hitscan malarky to content with, not to mention the netcode is still only "average" at best.
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The rendering devices in the Source engine don't alter in multiplayer.
That engine (Unreal Engine 2.5, in this case) has been adapted. (aswell as Source)
But because the engine has considerably less to render, proces, etc (not as high-polycount meshes, no heavy shading, no all dynamic lighting, object physics, etc) you can tweak stuff like draw distances to a much higher level.
You can out do RO with older game engines like Insanity from Hidden & Dangerous, if you increased draw distances because those have less to render.
Movement can be modified afaik.
The netcode is crap because everybody uses the standard Half-Life 2: DM framework (like used in CSS) which contains crappy misplaced hitboxes.
I don't know if there's a way to work around hitscan, but if I recall properly the devs of Resistance & Liberation have the answer to that.
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