Infantry weapons that should be added for Red orchestra 2

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

That's fine question. I think that such weapons could be added for the Action mode, or for the sake of discussion only. Nobody is forced to talk about these weapons after all - you can discuss ones you'd like to see and would fit your view.

They would fit well in a RO2 Killing Floor mod for shooting zombies with, but not in RO2

I myself would like to see flamethrower (perhaps for an engineer, as choosable): it'd have low range, wide stream of fire, but would slow down the user and hit in the backpack would cause an explosion of certain range. Very good for clearing the buildings, but bad for anything else.

Molotov coctails: currently the common infantry lacks some sort of anti-tank weponry (save for engineers and anti-tanks) and can't destroy or damage tanks. This would be choosable option for some.

Both of which are great suggestions considering that both weapons were in widespread use during the entire war, and as such could never hurt realism.

 

[Mauser98k]

If you want 1943-45 maps/weapons, I better see some correct model 1943 uniforms for the russians. The russian uniforms we have right now are already wrong in a lot of areas. I'll gladly help create them, but until then-Bigger problems at hand, lots of effort to be put in.
Leave it to the modders.

 

[Franc-Tireur]

Yes , i second the idea of Holy Death , the Molotov cocktail and the Flamethrower would be a great addition to the gameplay

 

[Dan The Viking]

I had another idea that I think would be cool to pursue. Maybe add some of the foreign Mausers and the Mauser variations like the Gewehr 24(t) and Gewehr 33(t), and maybe P640(b) pistols, Which, Personally, I think I'd rather have than a C96. I also think a Panzerbuchse 39 would be a great option. Moreso than the captured PTRS. Maybe the AT grenades could be replaced by the rifle grenades fired by the PzB39 or something.

Also, on a side note, doing a little bit of research looking for a grenade similar to that of the PzB39's, I found the Russian RPG43 hand grenade, which was an impact-detonating shaped charge that needed to strike at a 90 degree angle. It really seems like the kind of thing that would benefit from a muzzle-mount launcher, but the Russians do not appear to have developed that. I mean... Why not? It makes a lot of sense to do that.

As for submachineguns, maybe Beretta 38/42s? I'm not sure what the numbers of usage on those were, but from what I'm reading they weren't completely uncommon. But the only real examples I've been able to find were Fallschirmjager and SS (which wouldn't be reason to outright remove it, I guess. I mean, the Gewehr 41 was only issued in small numbers to Waffen SS and that's an - admittedly exclusive - infantry rifle). But I'd personally like to see the Mp41(r) more than anything. I think if TW put that in they'd get quite some respect from the collectors of arcane and esoteric war knowledge. That, and a Shpagina that uses MP40 mags is cool as hell to me.

To Grobut; Thanks for correcting me, I guess. But I've honestly never really believed that the Russians didn't take more of their design from the K/p31 than they did from the MP28. I don't really think if you compare the PPDs and K/p31 to the MP28 you'd come to the conclusion that the PPD is based on the MP28 without hearing that beforehand. I suppose that's just me being hard-headed, though.

 

[Victhor-ASH]

Here are some ideeas for some weapons filded at Stalingrad: the MG 26-30 or the ZB 26-30

This one should be an upgrade for the zb machinegun.

Wich I know that was pretty spread at Stalingrad, or the russian Dt 29

I found this website for all the weapons used by the russians in world war 2 http://www.13thguardspoltavaskaya.com/weapons.html

And why not implement for engineers the grenade launchers as a supression weapon to confuse the enemy ?

and this

and the german one

And why not add the russian PTRD to be issued to the majority of the anty tank soldiers for the begining of the earliest timeline of battles on the russian front. For the latest timeline for the battles the PTRD should be issued to the majority and the PTRS

They should be issued much more rarely like for one soldier from the anty tank teams, same for the DT 29 wich I proposed, instead of putting weapons to choose from put them to choose for classes and put them in numbers of how many would be available, that would be in my opinion more realistic. Like having the MP 41, to be issued to the assault classes in only 1,or 2 numbers for specific classes so that not everyone would choose only the specific weapon. Same for elite riflemen and other classes, this way you could add the mp 40/2 to a specific class without making it overused.

Also the VZ 24 czehoslovacian rifle to be issued for germans as a second choosable weapon for the german rifles

It was modeled from the Kar98k but it had a larger calibre bullet. That would mean ingame a larger recoil but higher damage. Vz 33 and the
ZH 29

wich fought at Stalingrad, it was like the G41 but had detachable magasine also a larger calibre.


Also the ZK-383 smg usd by Czechs was another higly spread rifle at Stalingrad why add this as a limited number of choice for smg carriers? but in limited number

Also the ZB pistols were built in very large numbers by the Czehoslovacians.

 

[AtheistIII]

Maybe the AT grenades could be replaced by the rifle grenades fired by the PzB39 or something.

The PzB39 wasn't able to shoot grenades, it was modified to the Granatb

 

[Victhor-ASH]

I know but why wouldn't it be implemented in the game, also I want opinions about the new weapons I proposed, the weapons were produced in pretty high numbers, so they would have been a common sight on the Eastern front.

 

[Dan The Viking]

The PzB39 wasn't able to shoot grenades, it was modified to the Granatb

 

[Victhor-ASH]

SO what are your opinion about the weapons I posted, they were all used at Stalingrad shouldn't they be in the game, maybe a future update ???

 

[Dan The Viking]

SO what are your opinion about the weapons I posted, they were all used at Stalingrad shouldn't they be in the game, maybe a future update ???

The only guns on there that actually saw service in Stalingrad that I know of are the Vz24 (under the name of 'G24(t)'), the CZ27 - which would have been used by very few German officers, and the DT29, which was a tank-mounted machine gun and is already in the game. I'm pretty sure neither side used the ZB machine guns. Even if they did, the numbers would be so negligible that they wouldn't end up in the game. Even in comparison to things like the MKb, which at most saw combat trials with one or two SS groups.

 

[Victhor-ASH]

Here it states that Czechs, Romanians and many other armies fought at Stalingrad, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad. I was thinking on the ideea to add the weapons so that it would be balanced if the Russians wouldve gotten the modified variant of the Mosin nagant the shortened one why not the german get the 8mm Zb rifle same for the LMG-s the russian would get the DT 29 and germans the ZB30. If I recon corectly it was also used in Red orchestra Carpathian Crosses.

 

[Dan The Viking]

Here it states that Czechs, Romanians and many other armies fought at Stalingrad, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad. I was thinking on the ideea to add the weapons so that it would be balanced if the Russians wouldve gotten the modified variant of the Mosin nagant the shortened one why not the german get the 8mm Zb rifle same for the LMG-s the russian would get the DT 29 and germans the ZB30. If I recon corectly it was also used in Red orchestra Carpathian Crosses.

As stated before, this game isn't about balance, it's about realism. It's almost assured that the Russians would get the M38 and M44s in the future, And it would be cool to give the Germans the G33/40 as well to have a carbine of their own, but this game is Germans Vs. Russians. Not Czechs, Romanians, Hungarians, Croatians, Germans, and Italians Vs. Russians. If there's already a DP28, why would there be a DT29 for infantry? That was a tank gun, it's already in the game. If the Germans have the superior MG34 already, why would they go back to the ZB30? From my understanding, they used that before they got the MG34 along side the MG08 in the beginning of the war, and only really used by SS thereafter. But, G41. We shouldn't go nuts here, though.

 

[Victhor-ASH]

Why shouldn't we add such weapons because the germans fought at Stalingrad alongside Czechs and Romanians. It is realism, because the vz 26 were produced around 3 million of them, but like i said, the producers could make the classes to have limited number of specific weapons for a class. Like the Mp 41 should be issued for all the classes in a very small number limited for all classes, like 2 of them for all classes that use the specific gun like: assault, commander and many others, this would make the game a lot more balanced. As for the Zb machinegun it should be issued also in few numbers for the specific classe, it would be used as an assault machinegun.

As for the DT 29, I know that it was a tank used MG, but why not issue it for the infantry to leave it as another machine gunner weapon choice. Because it isnt pretty fair for the russians to have only a single light machinegun model. It would make more balanced gameplay if you add specific weapons to compensate for the others and I think this would be realistic because people would've used the high capacity mag from the weapons if they had the chance. This would be a lot more realistic in my opinion.

From wikipedia

Like the ZB-26, the Wehrmacht adopted the ZB-30 after the occupation of Czechoslovakia, renaming it the MG30(t); it was used in the same role as the MG34, as a light machine gun. In the opening phases of World War II

http://world.guns.ru/machine/chex/zb-26-e.html this is also a source wich has detailed specs about the weapons.

 

[Dan The Viking]

Once again, the game is about realism, not balance.
And, it's about Germans versus Russians. Not Germany's allies, Germany.
It said the MG30 was used in the early stages before the MG34. The MG34 is in the game anyways, meaning they've gotten it now. Why would they go back to the MG30? And the DT29 as an infantry weapon even though it wasn't issued to infantry - a rather unrealistic request - in a game about realism. Do you see where I'm coming from?

Also, the Czechs weren't in the battle of Stalingrad.

Now, I had an idea the other day that I think would be kind of cool. Maybe add an ability to - at a higher weapon level - add some trench art or something to add a little flavor to your rifle. Like a carving in the stock or a barrel wrap or something. What do you guys think? Maybe even do that for tanks. I've seen pictures of things like nose art on the barrel of StuGs and such, and I don't see why the Russians wouldn't partake in such an activity.

 

[Victhor-ASH]

Yea but the majority the weapons I proposed were also in Red orchestra Ostfront Carpathian crosses maps. The russians would had too many weapons variants in Ostfront why not make it balanced and realistic and add weapons for the Wehrmacht too, because after occupying Czecholsovacia, they captured and issued theyr weapons to theyr infantry men, Im not suggesting to add czechs and Romanian units, but why not use theyr weapons? Because they fought alongside the germans, so it would be pretty fair to have such weapons in game and will give the germans a lot more balance.

Also I proposed a system wich was based on how many rifles a soldier should be issued. Lets say a class has to choose from G41 and kar98k all people will choose the G41 because is much more powerful, but why not limit the numbers of such weapons per class, so that people don't overuse the weapon? But why shouldn't the DT 29 be used in-game is the same like the DP28 but with larger magasine. The germans have 250 round belt Mg 34 and double magasine with 75 rounds. So wouldn't be realistic and fair to add such a weapon. Because it is only your opinion you don't have a realistic source to prove that you are right?

Because the 75 round magasine for the MG 34 was issued for the Planes of Luftwaffe as a defense machinegun, it shouldn't be in the game but it is. So why not put in the game the DT 29 as a second variant for the russian Lmg? It was used by infantry, because it would make no sense to keep it only for tanks if you got thousands of such weapons. Same for the Vz 26 rifle it was issued for german Wehrmacht it is only a modified variant of the kar98k to fire a bigger round.

Or add for germans as rifle variants the Steyr 95 rifle it would be in small and large variant like this

The Steyr rifles were manufactered in very high numbers, why not introduce it in the game, it was in Red orchestra Ostfront why shouldn't it be in Red orchestra 2 ?

and

For the russians the AVS 36 would be a very interesting choice to add if the PPD 40 would be added why wouldnt this rifle be added too? Is a much more elaborate design for the svt 40, it also features a 15 rounds magasine. It would be very cool to have it.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Also the VZ 24 czehoslovacian rifle to be issued for germans as a second choosable weapon for the german rifles

It was modeled from the Kar98k but it had a larger calibre bullet. That would mean ingame a larger recoil but higher damage.

The VZ-24 was chambered in the same 8x57mm Mauser cartridge as the German Karabiner 98K. The VZ-24 however featured a slightly shorter barrel than the K98k, reducing the muzzle velocity abit, and as such it obviously didn't do more damage.

I also highly doubt any VZ-24's were used in Stalingrad.

Vz 33 and the
ZH 29

wich fought at Stalingrad, it was like the G41 but had detachable magasine also a larger calibre.

Again, same round and same calibre: 8x57mm Mauser. And the ZH-29 definitely was not used in Stalingrad.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

The only worthwhile suggestions by x3ckid so far are the rifle grenades and the ZB-26 & 30 machine guns, as these actually were numerous, even in Stalingrad.

 

[Dan The Viking]

Unus Offa, both the Vz24 and Vz33 were issued under the names of G24(t) and G33/40(t) respectively. I don't know if they'd be in Stalingrad, but they WERE issued, this I know.
I have a couple more suggestions and expansions on my previous ones, a couple I think could be universally agreed upon.

Spoiler!

First one, Gewehr 98 (pictured above). These were used quite a bit, from what I can find. They started falling out of favor in 1940, but a fair number were probably still used in the battle of Stalingrad. I was thinking mods could just be small things like the option of rollercoaster sights or ladder sights and hooded or unhooded front sight. Things like that. I figured it would have a longer bayonetting range but would make you move slower because of it being a full-sized rifle rather than a Carbine.

Spoiler!

Vz. 33

Vz. 24

Vz. 33, under name of G33/40(t), Issued for sure, but numbers not known, don't know if it was in the battle of Stalingrad as stated above. Heard it was mostly issued to Mountain units, though. Wouldn't be too far-fetched to have it. Shorter bayonet range, less accurate at range, but you move faster with it due to the reduced weight. Cosmetic mods maybe?
Vz. 24 has the same background as the Vz. 33, except was probably used more by normal infantry. Would pretty much just be a cosmetic difference of the Kar98k.

Spoiler!

P640(b); Belgian made Browning Hi-Power, used extensively by the SS and purchased in good number by the Wehrmacht. 13 round capacity, single action, Modifications could be the ladder sights (don't know if the P640 came in that configuration, though) and the wooden holster/carbine stock.
I'd suggest an animation for the stock similar to that of the bayonets in ROOST.

Spoiler!

MP41(r); Captured PPSh41 with magazine conversion and rechambering to 9x19 Luger. Would in all probability maintain the legendary rate of fire of the Papasha, with the added bonus of being able to take ammo from regular German submachinegunners. As suggested, it would have almost identical ballistic properties to the MP40. Uses Schmeisser magazines. Can't think of any mods that could be used for this.

And, this is the one I think will be agreed on.
Probably the dumbest thing TW has done (and I say that with love) is the Hafthohlladung for the German engineer being thrown like a hand grenade and detonating on impact. What? That doesn't make sense. The charge isn't a thrown weapon. It was a shaped charge weapon that needed to be placed on the tank. So I'll suggest a weapon used against tanks that could actually -in theory- be thrown.
The Geballte Ladung.

Spoiler!

You probably know what these are if you're playing Red Orchestra, but if not, I will explain.
The Geballte Ladung was (most commonly) seven Stielhandgranates in a cluster, the six on the outside with the handles removed. They were roughly 3Kg's worth of TNT, and That's all they really were. But they could do was impressive, and they were commonly used against tanks. Now, you might say "but those couldn't take out a tank, they weren't shaped charges!" Yes. You'd be right, but they could take out the treads, and probably do some serious damage if they got under the tank. Maybe they could be a counterpart to Russian Molotov cocktails if those were added in the future. Maybe they could be given to some infantry who get one of them if they come face-to-face with a tank.

I also have some suggestions for hand grenades, but they'll be brief, as I'm lazy as hell. Eihandgranate Model 39s would be a cool addition, as would Russian RDG33 stick grenades. Tripwire has given defensive F1 grenades -noted as such for the fragmentation they put out- for usage in an offensive grenade's role, and seemingly left out the fragmentation of the F1 grenades. So I think the fragmentation should be added, doing the damage of, say, a medium-range pistol round. In the offensive role would go the RDG33 hand grenade. As for the German fragmentation grenades, I would like to see a Splitterring on the stick grenades. Also, I haven't really seen much of a range increase with the Stielhandgranate as compared to the F1. What gives? That was really the biggest advantage OF the Stielhandgranate, the vastly extended range due to the better leverage.

Alright, now I'm done. And I hope this didn't sound too much like me being a jerk and demanding this be in the game because it's my project or something. I feel like I might have a problem with that every once-in-a-while.

 

[Victhor-ASH]

Those ideeas are great, but does anyone know any bolt action rifles used by the wehrmarcht like the russian had the shortened Mosin Nagants, didn't the germans have them too?

The Steyr Mannlincher were built in over 3 million pieces, I think they wouldve been extensively used by the Wehrmarch. Also I really think that the germans wouldve used some kind of submachinegun with a higher rate of fire than the MP 40 like a weapon that would be reloaded horisontaly into the gun like the Sten sub machineguns. I really think one of this wouldve been produced in high numbers: ZK-383, Mp18-28, Mp 35, Mp 41?

Ive saw in a documentary that germans were filded at Stalingrad with high rate of fire Smg-s so why not add such a weapon ingame?

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

The VZ-24 & VZ-33 were issued yes, but like I said I highly doubt any saw use in Stalingrad, and the ZH-29 definitely didn't.