Infantry weapons that should be added for Red orchestra 2

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

BUT before you had posted this, have you read my statement ? :

Yes I did read it, and you're not coming across as you think you are x3ckid, that I can tell you for sure.

For one you keep coming with suggestions for exotic weapons to be added to the game, and then when people don't agree with these suggestions you mistakenly think this is because they will cause balance issues. However balance has nothing to do with it (esp. since balance should never be achieved through the addition of weapons), no the reason people don't want to see these exotic weapons ingame is because they would ruin the realism seeing as they weren't actually used in the actual battle and most of them not even during the war.

This is what many people, including myself, have been trying to tell you in numerous posts by now. Instead of listening to us however you take offense, believing we are mocking you when infact all we are doing is just letting you know why some of your suggestions wouldn't work.

 

[Holy.Death]

Unus Offa, Unus Nex - You didn't answer my question and yet you want x3ckid to forgot about weapons that weren't used in Staligrad? I still don't see why. As far as I understand it's a matter of opinion only and anyone can have his own.

 

[Victhor-ASH]

That is right, we aren't comunists to indoctrinate the ideeas to someone just because we like it, people have the right of opinion and ideeas, that is why I made the thread. You don't need to keep telling me about balance, Trust me I understand What you meant.

Those are only ideeas and with the thing I was telling you that only the good ones wich will make the game balanced and not affect the gameplay should be implemented ingame. And like Holy.Death said we don't have to limit ourselves only to Stalingrad no?

 

[Dan The Viking]

Okay, so, I guess I'll make some suggestions that are in good keeping with that little thing called reality.
Suomi Kp/31; Those were used by Germans. In limited numbers, yes, but this is the game that has the AVS, the MKb42, and G41 (which was prone to breaking quite often in trials), none of which were ever fielded. The Kp/31 was a Finnish submachinegun on which the Russians based their PPD-40, and later, PPSh-41 submachineguns. It was a rather heavy milled 9mm SMG (so maybe code it to have less recoil due to the weight, but much less penetrating power compared to the 7.62x25) which fed from 20 or 36 round stick magazines, 50 round "coffin" quad-stacked magazines, or 71 round drum magazines (which the Russians blatantly ripped off). This was used by some German forces, this I know, and I believe that they weren't issued the 71 round drums (don't quote me on that), but I don't know much outside of that. I don't know what the designation of it was, and I don't know who used it, but again. G41s and MKb42s.
Another couple of ideas which wouldn't be too hard would just be either Mp41(r)s or Mp717(r)s. Those were captured PPSh submachineguns, the latter being an unconverted type that was issued with 7.63 Mauser ammo rather than 7.62 Tokarev (7.62 operated at higher preassures, so the ammo could be found on the field). These were actually the second most common submachineguns that the Germans issued. Although I think it would be more worth it to put in an Mp41(r). That was a captured PPSh rechambered to 9x19mm Luger ammo, and fed from - I believe - the standard 32 round MP40 magazines. So it would have the standard German 9mm ammunition, and operate at the same rate of fire as the PPSh did. Once again, I'd suggest changing the ballistics to that of 9mm.
I'd of course like to see some of the classics come back, though. You know, like the Gewehr 43, the MG42, the Luger, the PPS43, the Panzerfaust... You know, that fun lot.

If this stuff has been suggested, I'm sorry, I haven't been keeping up with this at all. I've been a bad fanboy.

 

[Grobut]

@ Dan The Viking.

1) I do not think the inclusion of the MKb and AVT should ever excuse the addition of more rare or prototype weapons, quite the opposite, i firmly belive we should instead request they be wholly removed from the "Realism" and "Classic" modes of the game, as they simply do not belong there (nor do other items like the 4x G-41 scope, the MP-40/II or the M-712 pistol, which should also be removed from those modes).

2) The PPD-40 was not a copy of the KP/31, rather it was a further development of the PPD-34 and PPD-38 SMG's, the only things they really took from the KP/31 was the excellent Suomi drum magazine.
The reason the PPD-40 (and by extension the PPD-34/38) and the KP/31 are so similar is because they have the same ancestor, they are both based on the German MP-28 design.
The PPSh-41 however is a compleately different kettle of fish, whilst on the outside it resembles the PPD and KP, it's build entierly different from those weapons, it's not just a further iteration of the PPD, it's a compleately different weapon.

3) The KP/31 in German hands was very rare, and i woulden't be supriced at all if it was only carried by members of SS Wiking or similar. I think it's far to rare to include it.
Show me a winter-war mod, and then i'll be delighted to run around with a KP/31, otherwise no.

Unus Offa, Unus Nex - You didn't answer my question and yet you want x3ckid to forgot about weapons that weren't used in Staligrad? I still don't see why. As far as I understand it's a matter of opinion only and anyone can have his own.

Allow me to answer that one for you then:

Show me non-Stalingrad maps, show me signs that TWI is willing to remove bogus weapons from battles they don't belong in and only use them in battles where they do belong, and then we can talk about adding non-Stalingrad weaponry, then it'll be appropriate.

But we can never talk prototypes, post-war upgrades or extremely rare field mods, because that stuff will never have a place in RO as far as i'm concearned.

 

[Ducky]

I don't really think it would hurt reality if some extra weapons would be added. Even if they were not present in stalingrad as long as they are not selectable on any of the stalingrad maps. We all want more custom maps and I think it would be welcomed by the modders if they could select from more weapons when they design their own map. Then the number of custom maps might grow faster. And isn't that what we are all waiting for?

 

[ro2player]

X3ckid you keep posting wierd prototype weapons no one really wants in the game. You need to understand that the weapons are part of the game immersion. You don't feel like your playing a ww2 game with weapons that weren't there, nor used by normal troops. It totally destroys the experience.

Exact. RO 2 need a minimum of realism. RO 2 is not COD by the gameplay and it's not BF1942 secret weapons by the list of weapons. And RO2 doesn't need to become a new BF1942 secret weapons , but RO2 need to become RO2.

Do you want jet pack ? or anothers things look like it ?
Yes a little part of uncommun weapon were used (it's another question) but in a very little number. Mains weapons were Kar98, mp40, g41, ppsh41, mosin.

No one has anything against adding more weapons as long as they make sense. ask yourslef.

Absolutly yes. And fews people who will think realism is an ONLY an excuse to avoid to add weapon. it's not.
Do honor to RO2. RO 2 need realism. RO 2 need mg42. RO 2 need to stay RO2, because with mg42 we stay in realism line.

It totally destroys the experience.

And the main objective of RO2.

 

[Holy.Death]

Show me non-Stalingrad maps, show me signs that TWI is willing to remove bogus weapons from battles they don't belong in and only use them in battles where they do belong, and then we can talk about adding non-Stalingrad weaponry, then it'll be appropriate.

But we can never talk prototypes, post-war upgrades or extremely rare field mods, because that stuff will never have a place in RO as far as i'm concearned.

I think we all are waiting for maps from modders that'll be played and I don't think that all of them will take place at Stalingrad, so I see no problem with discussing various weapons of all time periods. I really don't think that a good discussion shouldn't happen just because we don't have non-Stalingrad maps yet.

 

[ro2player]

@
So he suggest weapons that you guys don't like.

"So he suggest weapons that you guys don't like". not ONLY but he suggests weapons who don't respect realism. it's not ONLY a question of opinion.

Better opinion should works with realism. RO works with realism since begining of the serie. (i hope i say it and i not schock you or another.).

I am not shocking by realism : i prefer realism to unrealism.

so I see no problem with discussing various weapons of all time periods.

You can discuss but you can't change history.

A lot of games CAN practice unrealism with all degres. (COD BF DOD MOH ... ) RO2 can't do it because RO2 try to folow realism. RO 2 practice realism with high degres. It's the RO serie style to try to follow realism. Fews games look like RO2 practice realism (or try to practice it - no games is perfect). RO 2 is specialy linked to Stalingrad. (i don't talk about new mods who will not linked to this battle). Maybe the will of players to have news weapons help to create mods, but RO2 need to become RO2 really and not a new BF1942 secret weapons. Stalingrad is Stalingrad.

 

[Grobut]

I don't really think it would hurt reality if some extra weapons would be added. Even if they were not present in stalingrad as long as they are not selectable on any of the stalingrad maps. We all want more custom maps and I think it would be welcomed by the modders if they could select from more weapons when they design their own map. Then the number of custom maps might grow faster. And isn't that what we are all waiting for?

Not interested untill i see an attitude change from TWI, as far as i'm concearned, they have shown no interest in keeping the weapons and upgrades historically accurate, and even now with the Classic mode, they are still pushing the MKb into that mode though nobody seems to want it there, it's apparently become some matter of personal pride for the Dev's that we be forced to deal with that damned thing.

As long as that's what i'm seeing from them, then i would not trust them to do the right thing with any of the weapons i see suggested, and as a result, i see no other choice but to oppose adding more guns as they will undoubtedly all become standard weapons in the game along with everything else.


You know what i'd much rather see? Them actually fixing and polishing the existing weapons, removing errors like the Plum SVT bolt-carrier, adding back bayo attach/detach anims, fixing the unrealistic mid-mag reloads of the SVT and G-41, fixing up the scopes to remove excessive image bending at the edges and centering the scope pictures propperly, fixing the awful Mosin fire sound which seems to have been forgotten when the other weapon sounds underwent post-processing, prefably fixing some of the awful texture work on the Mosin aswell, and adding proper staged reload anims so interrupting a weapon reload works in a realistic way (no need to start reload all over if you already removed the magazine, then you should just need to insert a fresh one, not remove the mag you already removed).

 

[ro2player]

You know what i'd much rather see? Them actually fixing and polishing the existing weapons, removing errors like the Plum SVT bolt-carrier, adding back bayo attach/detach anims, fixing the unrealistic mid-mag reloads of the SVT and G-41, fixing up the scopes to remove excessive image bending at the edges and centering the scope pictures propperly, fixing the awful Mosin fire sound which seems to have been forgotten when the other weapon sounds underwent post-processing, prefably fixing some of the awful texture work on the Mosin aswell, and adding proper staged reload anims so interrupting a weapon reload works in a realistic way (no need to start reload all over if you already removed the magazine, then you should just need to insert a fresh one, not remove the mag you already removed).

Good point of view, Grobut.

RO2 need to become RO2 AKA heroes of STALINGRAD.

 

[dullshooter]

Im surprised no one mentioned it but the ppd-40 was one of my favourite weapons in roost and it would be great in ro2 for a more accurate but slower firing alternative to the ppsh.

 

[Clowndoe]

@PPD-40

Oh yeah... I'd add that to my list of weapons I wouldn't mind.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Unus Offa, Unus Nex - You didn't answer my question and yet you want x3ckid to forgot about weapons that weren't used in Staligrad? I still don't see why. As far as I understand it's a matter of opinion only and anyone can have his own.

Even so most of the weapons he has suggested so far either didn see service on the Eastern front or didn't even see service during the war as a whole, so how could you ever justify adding them ?

The Russian Infrared sight on the PPSh for one was a prototype, and it turned out that the IR equipment didn't work well at all, the Russians lacking the chemical & optical know-how to manufacture effective IR equipment at that time, and so it was never fielded.

Next the bent barrel PPSh was also a prototype weapon based on the German krummlauf design for the StG44, and there is little to no evidence that it was ever used in actual combat.

Next there's the stripped down PPSh with a long modern silencer, which is complete sci fi and again never fielded. Same goes for the pistol Mosin Nagant, which is just silly really.

In short: The problem is not just that x3ckid is suggesting weapons that weren't fielded during the battle for Stalingrad, but more that the weapons he is suggesting are mostly exotic prototypes that never saw service during the war.

If the game spanned the entire length of the war (which would've been nice btw) there are many much more sensible weapon suggestions to be made, such as:

K98b
Mosin M38
G-43
StG-44
MG-42
BMP-35
MP-28
PPS-43
PPD-40
DShK-38
Panzerfaust
Panzerschrek
P-35 [P-640(b)]

And some rare ones:

MP-34
EMP-35
MG-30
FG-42
S-18/100, 1000 & 1100

etc etc....

 

[Ducky]

"So he suggest weapons that you guys don't like". not ONLY but he suggests weapons who don't respect realism. it's not ONLY a question of opinion.
---SNIP---

Hmmm... you snipped out the rest of the post. Below you see the complete post. Did you see me say anywhere in that post that I wanted them to be added too?

@all that keep on bashing down at the one that started this thread.

He is allowed to suggest what ever he want as long as it's game related and as long as it is done in a civil manner. Even so are you all allowed to reply and tell him what you think of the idea. But again in a civil manner. Bashing at the OP because you don't like his suggestion is childish. So he suggest weapons that you guys don't like. Did you see TWI reply that they will include those weapons? They are just suggestions. Nothing else. Material to discus about and no need to bash him down.

 

[Holy.Death]

Even so most of the weapons he has suggested so far either didn see service on the Eastern front or didn't even see service during the war as a whole, so how could you ever justify adding them ?

That's fine question. I think that such weapons could be added for the Action mode, or for the sake of discussion only. Nobody is forced to talk about these weapons after all - you can discuss ones you'd like to see and would fit your view.

I myself would like to see flamethrower (perhaps for an engineer, as choosable): it'd have low range, wide stream of fire, but would slow down the user and hit in the backpack would cause an explosion of certain range. Very good for clearing the buildings, but bad for anything else.

Molotov coctails: currently the common infantry lacks some sort of anti-tank weponry (save for engineers and anti-tanks) and can't destroy or damage tanks. This would be choosable option for some.

 

[AtheistIII]

Flamethrower and Molotovs would be awesome, but I guess proper fire behaviour would need quite a lot of coding and animation.

 

[PeteAtomic]

And then to think how many of you guys had lots of fun with them and still request to see them back. And with them I mean the clown cars

Hey! Don't knock em! Those things were great. I mean, where else could you Dukes of Hazard off a hill slope, stop behind a Pz. IV, blow it up with a satch..and then speed off again?

 

[PeteAtomic]

The molotov they'd have to create burning people animation along with that, too.

 

[Ducky]

Hey! Don't knock em! Those things were great. I mean, where else could you Dukes of Hazard off a hill slope, stop behind a Pz. IV, blow it up with a satch..and then speed off again?

I know they were fun to play with. I just mentioned it, because some here keep on repeating "realism" while they had lots of fun with the clown cars in the ROost.