Improving the Demolitions close quarter functionality.

[ScarFace]

Due to the demo man being the newest perk I've been playing it some lately. I was thinking it would be a good addition to add different types of grenades to the demo's arsenal instead of the standard explosive kind. In the military all types of grenades exist, explosive, smoke, anti-personnal, and even less than lethal.

If you've ever played demo you know that you're very limited in close range situations when using your primary weapon, the grenade launcher. Yes, you can still kill a speciman from the projectile but its a huge waste of ammo and sometimes the specimen is just outside of the arming range and BOOM you've lost half your health/armor. An anti-personal grenade (sort of like an uber shotgun) to clear enemies up close would be a nice addition. To make this work you could have one grenade launcher loaded with explosives and one with anti-personal rounds and switch between them accordingly.

I don't believe this option would replace the support class either due to the LONG reload times of the M32 and small clip size of the M79 (1 shot at a time).

Also just throwing this out there, other grenades like maybe ones filled with a flammable liquid could be shot out infront of a horde of zeds and either it could explode in front of them on its own or maybe the firebug would have to set the pool of gas on fire, thus increasing the team cooperative play because these two classes could work together.

What do you guys think?

 

[Bio666]

It's true that there are plenty of ammo type for the M32, but let not talk about them too much, or you'll start a flame war about the thing-shall-not-be-named, like a canister with flammable liquid sounds too much like that thing

 

[9_6]

No, this is one of the demos weaknesses.
Take all weaknesses away and we get a second sharpshooter.

 

[ScarFace]

No, this is one of the demos weaknesses.
Take all weaknesses away and we get a second sharpshooter.

Without the reload speed of the sharpshooter and a maximum of a 6 shot clip (m32) plus 1 shot from m 79 for a total of 7 shots....before a LONG reload sequence....I think its an overstatement to say it would be a 2nd sharpshooter.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

hrmm while i disagree with taking away his weakness ive always wanted another game besides arma that lets you use the shotgun round for the m79.

(basically an even bigger BOOMSTICK!)

 

[SpurryMoses]

If you've ever played demo you know that you're very limited in close range situations

In my opinion, thats how it should be.
There needs to be a paper-rock-scissors conundrum to choosing Demoman ie to make playing him not too easy. This is how we achieve balance in the game between perks.
The solutions are to not play Demo or change to a different weapon.
I think your suggestions about different grenades could be fun, but I dont think the solution is to make the Demoman more generally capable with short-range ammo - for the same reason that the berserker's katana should not shoot poison darts over long distances.

 

[Nanostrike]

In my opinion, thats how it should be.
There needs to be a paper-rock-scissors conundrum to choosing Demoman ie to make playing him not too easy. This is how we achieve balance in the game between perks.
The solutions are to not play Demo or change to a different weapon.
I think your suggestions about different grenades could be fun, but I dont think the solution is to make the Demoman more generally capable with short-range ammo - for the same reason that the berserker's katana should not shoot poison darts over long distances.

Agreed. It's called balancing. Without it, even without the reload taken into account, demo would be too powerful. You should NOT be able to unleash explosives, "Short range" ones or not, at close range and not expect to get shredded. They already have a weapon that does short range AoE and it's called a Shotgun.

This whole topic is just...ugh. It's the whole new-aged gamer's "Fix the game!" philosophy. If something has a weakness, they immediately want it remedied instead of learning to compensate for it. This would be like suggesting that Commandos get tazers because they lack "Close range ability" or that Berserkers get zoom-able throwing knives because they lack "Long range ability".

Notice how this wasn't "Close range demo tactics" or anything that could potentially fix the situation without modifying the game. It goes right to "This is obviously broken because it's now how I like it, so lets fix it". No. Learn to use different tactics, different weapons, or *Gasp* a different perk if grenade launchers aren't working.

For example, shooting grenades at walls BEHIND something that's near you can hurt it without hurting yourself. Or keeping a secondary weapon for up-close blasting instead of carrying two grenade launchers. Or choosing a different perk if you're stuck in close quarters (This is where Firebugs and Supports come in, as you can do your AoE up close and not kill yourself).

 

[ScarFace]

Agreed. It's called balancing. Without it, even without the reload taken into account, demo would be too powerful. You should NOT be able to unleash explosives, "Short range" ones or not, at close range and not expect to get shredded. They already have a weapon that does short range AoE and it's called a Shotgun.

This whole topic is just...ugh. It's the whole new-aged gamer's "Fix the game!" philosophy. If something has a weakness, they immediately want it remedied instead of learning to compensate for it. This would be like suggesting that Commandos get tazers because they lack "Close range ability" or that Berserkers get zoom-able throwing knives because they lack "Long range ability".

Notice how this wasn't "Close range demo tactics" or anything that could potentially fix the situation without modifying the game. It goes right to "This is obviously broken because it's now how I like it, so lets fix it". No. Learn to use different tactics, different weapons, or *Gasp* a different perk if grenade launchers aren't working.

For example, shooting grenades at walls BEHIND something that's near you can hurt it without hurting yourself. Or keeping a secondary weapon for up-close blasting instead of carrying two grenade launchers. Or choosing a different perk if you're stuck in close quarters (This is where Firebugs and Supports come in, as you can do your AoE up close and not kill yourself).

I completely disagree that it would make the demo so powerful. He lacks reload speed bonuses and can ONLY fire 7 shots prior to needed to reload if he's using both nade launchers. In fact it would add a tactical element to the game where the player would have to decide should i have my launcher loaded up with exploding grenades or close range grenades (because the player would have to choose which ones he loaded up prior to the waves). That would balance the game perfectly. 2 types of grenades but they don't do both functions so you'd have to choose wisely. As some are great for long distance and the others are good for close range.

Plus these guys are an elite unit of fighters sent in to take out these zeds. I find it hard to believe that a demo wouldn't bring the right tools for the job. It is completely reasonable that he would assume that there would be some close quarters fighting and he would bring the appropriate weaponry. I highly doubt he'd think perhaps this would make me "unbalanced" as a player, or "too powerful". (Neither of which would happen by the way, if my suggestion was implemented.

 

[nath2009uk]

Each perk is good at something.
SS is good at medium / long range / headshots
Medic is used for healing.
Commando is used for medium range and spotting stalkers / taking out crawlers.
Support is used for close range and lots o' damage.
Demo should be used at medium / long range for doing AoE damage.
Zerker is melee range.
Firebug is medium range and able to keep a nice flow of damage on a group of zeds.

If a zerker could headshot FPs in one shot, it would be too OP since they could excell at Melee range and Long range (Well, they do along with every other class because of the Xbow)

 

[KON_Air]

Would you like Skul-Gun implanted into Demos heads?

 

[MotionLotion]

If you've ever played demo you know that you're very limited in close range situations when using your primary weapon, the grenade launcher. Yes, you can still kill a speciman from the projectile but its a huge waste of ammo and sometimes the specimen is just outside of the arming range and BOOM you've lost half your health/armor.

That's why you have teammates.
But if your teammates suck, why not add a riot bean bag to launch at that enraged flesh pounder.

 

[a_Liability]

not to be silly or anything, but how about a m79 mounted weapon?
like an M16 + M79 assult rifle, the first cross class weapon?
I know this makes the M79 less useful, as EVERYONE would use the M16 with noob tube istead of the M79 by itself, but it could be a viable weapon for the demo who could utilize the mags to do close range last ditch firing.
Also make this rifle heavy enough that an M32 cant be used with it (some demos will hate me for saying that =/ ).

To keep ballance, the demo has to trade off the amount of damage, how long the reload rate is, or how much FF damage the demo has to take from this "close quarters" weapon.

As for just a weapon to switch to, a dirrectional blast explosive wouldnt be to hard to use, such as a claymore, unfortunatly I would advocate that such items should be harder and take longer to use, as they do not involve ANY risk to the demo for using in close quarters. This is plain / old not effective in a potential wipe case, or one where a zed made it past the front line.

Mini explosives, they exist, something like a bar of C4 the size of a gum stick sure almost no kick, but the explosive radius will be so small it will have minimal splash, and if used from a sufficient distance, won't injure the user. It could work alot like a dart of some sort, thrown at close range, and explodes on contact (Rofl, thinking them days where we had pop rocks, the little white bags about the size of small pebbles full of magnesium and igniting rocks that would "explode" when you throw them to the ground).
I would say something like only 50-150 damage a pop (with limited ability to carry many of them, max 20 should do the trick, or long reload time) OR you could get a weapon like the MP7 medi gun (a SMG + dart thrower maybe) to use with the darts, and they would take dirrectly from your dart supply.

I would not really want the M32 to turn into a multi purpose weapon as explained above.

 

[-=AG=- Avery]

No, this is one of the demos weaknesses.
Take all weaknesses away and we get a second sharpshooter.

Yep leave it as is its weakness is close range your just going to get another shapshooter if you give them even very small close range ability.

 

[Cockney Nutjob]

Plus these guys are an elite unit of fighters sent in to take out these zeds. I find it hard to believe that a demo wouldn't bring the right tools for the job. It is completely reasonable that he would assume that there would be some close quarters fighting and he would bring the appropriate weaponry. I highly doubt he'd think perhaps this would make me "unbalanced" as a player, or "too powerful". (Neither of which would happen by the way, if my suggestion was implemented.

There's nothing realistic about this game, the classes and weapons are there for GAMEPLAY reasons only, not to simulate the abilities and loadout of a real-life tactical response unit

 

[HaTeMe]

This whole topic is just...ugh. It's the whole new-aged gamer's "Fix the game!" philosophy. If something has a weakness, they immediately want it remedied instead of learning to compensate for it. This would be like suggesting that Commandos get tazers because they lack "Close range ability" or that Berserkers get zoom-able throwing knives because they lack "Long range ability".

EXACTLY!

I dont know why people are always trying to make every perk good at, well, everything. This is supposed to be a game of teamwork, if every perk can fight in both short and long range situations, and against any enemy, theres no longer need for teamwork. Its a big advantage that you can blow up huge crowds of zeds with one shot after all.

But I like the idea of having different types of grenades. There should be an option of buying different types of grenades from the trader, like percussion-, fragmentation-, incendiary-, stun-, or gas grenades. Stronger ones would naturally cost more. Stun grenades (or flashbangs) would cause specimens to run around in circles for a few seconds and even attack each other (not knowing who is the enemy and who is not). Gas grenades would prolly behave much like the flame grenades firebug has atm (causing dmg over time) but would affect Husks too.

 

[Nibe]

Due to the demo man being the newest perk I've been playing it some lately. I was thinking it would be a good addition to add different types of grenades to the demo's arsenal instead of the standard explosive kind. In the military all types of grenades exist, explosive, smoke, anti-personnal, and even less than lethal.

If you've ever played demo you know that you're very limited in close range situations when using your primary weapon, the grenade launcher. Yes, you can still kill a speciman from the projectile but its a huge waste of ammo and sometimes the specimen is just outside of the arming range and BOOM you've lost half your health/armor. An anti-personal grenade (sort of like an uber shotgun) to clear enemies up close would be a nice addition. To make this work you could have one grenade launcher loaded with explosives and one with anti-personal rounds and switch between them accordingly.

I don't believe this option would replace the support class either due to the LONG reload times of the M32 and small clip size of the M79 (1 shot at a time).

Also just throwing this out there, other grenades like maybe ones filled with a flammable liquid could be shot out infront of a horde of zeds and either it could explode in front of them on its own or maybe the firebug would have to set the pool of gas on fire, thus increasing the team cooperative play because these two classes could work together.

What do you guys think?

No sodding way!