Imagining what a manually drawn bow would be like in KF

[Vaecrius]

Just thinking of how a bow might be implemented as far as interface goes. I'm not too interested in seeing things escalate to crazy Rambo-Legolas-slash multi-grenade-arrow nonsense so much as being able to see such a relatively complex-to-use weapon get as good and detailed a treatment as guns have received in this game.

(Apologies if this exact same thing has been brought up before, as it is a somewhat difficult thing to search for.)

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You will automatically take out and nock an arrow when the bow is selected, your quiver is not empty, and you do not already have an arrow nocked.

Pressing and holding fire without the weapon raised would bring up the bow and draw. You will continue drawing the bow until you've reached its maximum or you let go. While you will naturally bring up the bow and look down the bow sight as you draw, you won't zoom in. Also, it's hard to time it so you get consistent force, though at maximum you will sacrifice a bit of control for more power.

Pressing the raise-sights button will cause you to bring up the bow and, without waiting for any player feedback, quickly draw the bow to a standard and not quite maximum distance. This will cause you to zoom in down the sights. In this state you move even slower than while drawing with the fire key alone. Hitting the raise-sights button again will undraw your bow and revert to a relaxed position. Hitting the fire button once you've drawn the bow this way, however, will cause you to instantly let go and shoot the arrow.

The arrow will, of course, have weight and move in a parabolic arc which will vary depending on the power put behind it. It may be subject to wind on some maps.

However you draw the bow, you will only be able to walk not run, and you will automatically undraw your bow and revert to a relaxed position if you crouch or jump or take a significant amount of damage.

Pressing altfire will cause you to undraw your bow (if drawn) and then switch between hunting and bodkin arrows. Hunting arrows do quite a bit of damage but have very little penetration; bodkins penetrate very well but do less damage on bodyshots than hunting arrows, while doing more damage on headshots. To be consistent with how ammo is treated for other KF weapons, you'll just have an abstract stock of 40 arrows and be assumed to have just enough of each type in your quiver to have used whatever you end up using.

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It's not meant to be a "power" weapon, but one for very skilled sharpshooter players to challenge themselves and show off how good they really are.

 

[Uk1t4k3]

Nice idea trying to suggest a unique way of playing FPS style game but unfortunately it would be insanely hard to implement all the stuff u suggest which is probably why many game developers prefered futuristic/modern themes FPS(simple to implement without taking too much realism into consideration).

 

[Sammers]

While it wouldn't really suit the game, it would be fun to use. Reminded me of Turok tbh. And Turok was awesome. Maybe when the game is perfectly balanced, TWI will implement a bunch of the crazy pointless weapons just for giggles and throw the brick, pipebomb hat and a lot of other stuff in there too.

 

[nutterbutter]

I imagine it would be in pencil.

 

[Zeron]

Maybe when the game is perfectly balanced

Don't ever see this happening if new content is to make it into the game.

 

[Sammers]

Don't ever see this happening if new content is to make it into the game.

Surely at the moment the new content is being made to balance it.

 

[slavek]

When the arrow hits the enemy, it should have a loud fleshy "THUD!". Also would be cool if arrow did not rip off the clots(example) head but instead lodged in his eye socket or something. Then have the clot play a panic motion as he tries to get the arrow out.

 

[Vaecrius]

Nah, no panic motion, might make things too easy and at the same time too un-zombie-like.

Pincushion'd zeds walking around would be a neat effect though!

 

[Vaecrius]

Nice idea trying to suggest a unique way of playing FPS style game but unfortunately it would be insanely hard to implement all the stuff u suggest

There's very little I've described that, say, I wouldn't be able to code into a ZDoom mod given the time and inclination. This mod, for instance, has a working example of varying how far you throw your grenade depending on how long you "wind up" - the altfire there isn't the alternate I describe here, instead it's just letting you pull the pin and cook off the grenade, but you will get a pretty consistent force if you just always let it cook off until you automatically throw it in the last second so as to not die.

...unless you were referring to my passing comment about wind, of course, in which case I'm rather helpless to try anything.

 

[Uk1t4k3]

There's very little I've described that, say, I wouldn't be able to code into a ZDoom mod given the time and inclination. This mod, for instance, has a working example of varying how far you throw your grenade depending on how long you "wind up" - the altfire there isn't the alternate I describe here, instead it's just letting you pull the pin and cook off the grenade, but you will get a pretty consistent force if you just always let it cook off until you automatically throw it in the last second so as to not die.

...unless you were referring to my passing comment about wind, of course, in which case I'm rather helpless to try anything.

Wind affecting the projectile might worsen the whole KF game mechanics... probably need to keep the mechanics as simple as possible without the wind part.

 

[Unit-05]

The irony of this thread when I has JUST found my Turok 2 seeds of evil for PC disc. Damn I love that bow.

while it can't really be placed in because we already have a crossbow, and because TF2 has one people will think you are copying them. As a mod to add a bow to replace the crossbow - I AM TOTALLY FOR IT. Hell, I can extract the bow and arrow model from the turok 2 disk for you to look at (not nessesarily to convert into the game) so you can get some ideas from it.

 

[Aze]

Hmmmm a bow? How about this as mechanics:

You always have an arrow stringed to the bow and ready to be pulled. (Reloads automatically after each shot)

Ironscope button = You click to pull the string to max power, very quickly, plus you get the typical zoom-in effect. Best way to aim at a distance like this. Left click to shoot the arrow and puts you out of the "sight" mode. Meaning, if you want to have accurate shots all the time you have to right+left, right+left. Just like the Xbow that is. Rightclicking again though, unpulls the string back to normal position. Shooting like this, with "ironsight", would be the recommended mode, as it's less prone to waste arrows as well.
If it's a Longbow, some "max" time would have to be added, as it is quite heavy to hold the arrow pulled for too long.
If it's a Compound (which uses a sort of "gear") it could be aimed unlimitedly (The pulling mechanic of the Compound bow is basicly reversed. A Longbow is easy in the start and gets heavier the more you pull. The Compound is at its heaviest in the start, but very easy in the end. That's why they are so incredibly accurate bows and used in competition archery! )
Imo, i would recommend the Compound for the sake of easier programming ^^

Left button (without arrowsight) = A quick fully pulled shot (will be slightly delayed though), not as accurate as the "scoped" shot though, but still as powerful and all (it aint that hard to draw them, plus, if you shoot without fully pulling them you will have aweful, aweful power and terrible, TERRIBLE accuracy, regardless of bow type.)
Another idea is to make it work like the LAW: You HAVE to "ironsight" to be able to shoot each shot, but i guess that would be quite annoying, since a bow is quite possible to fire (relatively) fast with.

Arrows should have an arc ofc, but don't underestimate the range of a bow!

 

[human_gs]

Let it go dude, it would be either underpowered or just too unrealistic (if they decided to give it the ridiculous power of the xbow)

 

[Vaecrius]

It's not meant to be a "power" weapon, but one for very skilled sharpshooter players to challenge themselves and show off how good they really are.

I was actually thinking of something deliberately underpowered here - something that does something like a maximum of xbow damage on only one target per shot with a maximum firing rate comparable to mashing the axe's altfire. (you could go faster by clicking the fire button real fast, but you'd just be dropping arrows like pipes and do no damage unless you were raining them down from the roof of Offices or something.)

@Aze: I like the max time idea. My thought on that originally was that after a while you'd start shaking but you'd still get maximum power even though aiming would be very difficult.

And yes, as far as the arc is concerned I'm thinking more of the difference between a headshot and a bodyshot than hitting or missing.

 

[Aze]

I was actually thinking of something deliberately underpowered here - something that does something like a maximum of xbow damage on only one target per shot with a maximum firing rate comparable to mashing the axe's altfire.

This sounds really good

(you could go faster by clicking the fire button real fast, but you'd just be dropping arrows like pipes and do no damage unless you were raining them down from the roof of Offices or something.)

This doesn't sound as good. The shots should always be max powered. No need to hold down buttons or similar.
Let's say that you need to hold down the button to shoot with the Bow. If you just quickly click and thus hardly pull the string at all, then arrow just drops "like pipebombs". Even if you were dropping them of the roof of Offices, the damage would not be strong at all.

Thus, that is why i insist on making the bow always shot with max power. (easier to programme too)

@Aze: I like the max time idea. My thought on that originally was that after a while you'd start shaking but you'd still get maximum power even though aiming would be very difficult.

To be honest, i would prefer the bow to be a Compound bow. They are easier to handle and programme, due to not really having a max time. Have you ever shot with a Compound bow? They are amazingly easy to handle, compared to regular Longbows.

And yes, as far as the arc is concerned I'm thinking more of the difference between a headshot and a bodyshot than hitting or missing.

That sounds just about right

 

[Vaecrius]

Nope, only a regular one... seen a guy shoot a compound, but I just assumed a lot of the difference was simply because he was a better and more experienced archer >_>

 

[_Duke_]

@ OP

It might have been easier to just start from the Bow & Arrow in TF2 or Mount & Blade and go from there.
Less text to read anyway (and yes I did read it.)

Both are good games, though totally different ! I'm willing to bet most people here have played one of them, if not both, because both are available on Steam.

 

[Vaecrius]

I remember playing M&B demo a long time ago, but I have no recollection as to how the bow interface worked. x_x

also, wrt re-reading OP omgwtf john rambo legolas slash

 

[_Duke_]

I remember playing M&B demo a long time ago, but I have no recollection as to how the bow interface worked. x_x

also, wrt re-reading OP omgwtf john rambo legolas slash

Quick break-down of M&B's bow and arrow system:

You have an aiming reticule, the arrow will randomly fire somewhere inside that space. Moving while drawn makes the reticule HUGE, and thus inaccurate. Hold still and time the release for a tight reticule.

Left-click draws arrow, but it takes a moment for the reticule to shrink. (meaning twitch-shots are poorly aimed)
-->fires upon release of left-click
---->holding it too long causes the aim to suffer severely (similar for TF2)
------->right-click cancels the draw

The aiming reticule always has a margin of error. Meaning, even if you aim perfectly & with a small reticule, it may veer slightly.

Arrows remain a long time embedded in the ground, or a wall, after being shot. Much, much longer than KF's bolts.
You can reclaim ammo fairly easily because of this.

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If I had to use TF2 or M&B in KF, I'd use M&B all the way. M&B is more skill-based and harder to master.

TF2's has too forgiving a hit-box and can 1-shot any enemy if fully charged.
It shoots where you aim, with no randomness, unless you're moving or held it too long.
TF2's arrows cannot be reclaimed, although they do pin rag-dolls to walls!

 

[CA_Hiro]

I thought that implenting a bow would be cool, if it would be balanced as well.
So since there is a topic about it, I'll just bump this.