That's how exactly the realism community feels about this game. The only reason they don't say anything on these forums is because they feel what's the point?
Upvote
0
I am liking the direction of R02
- Thread starter Gut_You_Up
- Start date
That's how exactly the realism community feels about this game. The only reason they don't say anything on these forums is because they feel what's the point?
Man what a bunch of whiny asses. How is RO2 that much different than RO? Other than the fact you can run realistically now. TWI did a great job keeping the feel of the original game. It looks beautiful on maxed settings and I've had no trouble with it since the launch. It would appear some people need to update their Pentium D processor.
What I think kills the game are the hardcore fan boys that make it no fun for new players. HOS is not easy enough for the new casual players and apparently not hard enough for the hard core fan boys. As I've mentioned before, I think the game needed a game type that introduces the game style mechanics. That's why free for all is a good introduction game to help people learn the game feel. Walking into a community of hard core players can quickly kill a new player's fun factor. The worse part is that you fan boys really don't want anyone else playing your game and it's obvious. Yes HOS is a squad based game, but what if your team sucks? How fun is it playing all team style games when new players you don't even have a good grasp of tactics or even how to shoot? The game is good, and all the bad mouthing only kills any chance of TWI making something on the game so they can continue to improve it.
Coming from a COD background I see how difficult it is to make the transition. Not everyone wants to "work" together in a squad based game. Sometimes I just want to jump in for a few mins for some good old shootin fun. lol Free for all and search and destroy would have been two game types that would have brought many casual and clans players into the game. Just my 2 cents.
What I think kills the game are the hardcore fan boys that make it no fun for new players. HOS is not easy enough for the new casual players and apparently not hard enough for the hard core fan boys. As I've mentioned before, I think the game needed a game type that introduces the game style mechanics. That's why free for all is a good introduction game to help people learn the game feel. Walking into a community of hard core players can quickly kill a new player's fun factor. The worse part is that you fan boys really don't want anyone else playing your game and it's obvious. Yes HOS is a squad based game, but what if your team sucks? How fun is it playing all team style games when new players you don't even have a good grasp of tactics or even how to shoot? The game is good, and all the bad mouthing only kills any chance of TWI making something on the game so they can continue to improve it.
Coming from a COD background I see how difficult it is to make the transition. Not everyone wants to "work" together in a squad based game. Sometimes I just want to jump in for a few mins for some good old shootin fun. lol Free for all and search and destroy would have been two game types that would have brought many casual and clans players into the game. Just my 2 cents.
Upvote
0
With run realisticly, do you mean the ability to sprint in full speed up for stairs, make instant stops and turns without having to stop any momentum at all?
Most of the issues with this games aren't in terms of graphics. It's in terms of gameplay. It's the mechanics in the gameplay that affects the gameplay.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with introducing new players to the game but when this is at expense of the hardcore side of it the point of the game is kinda lost. But in the end of the day this game was orginally meant for hardcore players.
It's a tactical shooter. If you don't want to play as a team don't play the game. The whole purpose of a tactical shooter is to play it as a tactical shooter. It's the same thing for me; If I don't want an arcadegame, I don't buy COD and then complain on their forums on how 'unrealistic' the game is.
Probably 90% of all games consist of arcadegames. Accessible games.
Basicly Arma and RO. Yet YOU say that It's important for this games to become accessible so that YOU are not left out in the cold?
You have hundreds of games to choose from that more or less plays out as the rest of the generic shooters. I, aswell as others, have about ONE SINGLE RO-like game to choose from - RO.
As I said, I see no wrong with making it more accessible, but when accessibility is on expense on the Hardcore gameplay It's wrong IMO. With the personal insults, I am not a fanboy at all. I play all kinds of games my friend. My favorite one right now is Red Faction Guerilla which is quite the opposite of arma and ro. But when I buy a tactical shooter I do it because I want tactical gameplay and not something else. That's why we have genres in games.
Most of the issues with this games aren't in terms of graphics. It's in terms of gameplay. It's the mechanics in the gameplay that affects the gameplay.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with introducing new players to the game but when this is at expense of the hardcore side of it the point of the game is kinda lost. But in the end of the day this game was orginally meant for hardcore players.
It's a tactical shooter. If you don't want to play as a team don't play the game. The whole purpose of a tactical shooter is to play it as a tactical shooter. It's the same thing for me; If I don't want an arcadegame, I don't buy COD and then complain on their forums on how 'unrealistic' the game is.
Probably 90% of all games consist of arcadegames. Accessible games.
Basicly Arma and RO. Yet YOU say that It's important for this games to become accessible so that YOU are not left out in the cold?
You have hundreds of games to choose from that more or less plays out as the rest of the generic shooters. I, aswell as others, have about ONE SINGLE RO-like game to choose from - RO.
As I said, I see no wrong with making it more accessible, but when accessibility is on expense on the Hardcore gameplay It's wrong IMO. With the personal insults, I am not a fanboy at all. I play all kinds of games my friend. My favorite one right now is Red Faction Guerilla which is quite the opposite of arma and ro. But when I buy a tactical shooter I do it because I want tactical gameplay and not something else. That's why we have genres in games.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Once again, it all boils down to the lack of difference between relaxed and hardcore servers.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Hardly, the examples he mentioned don't have anything to do with server settings, they exist in both rulesets.
And while I don't necessarily agree with everything he has to say, he does make a few good points. Running at the same speed everywhere doesn't feel very logical, it kind of makes combat on stairs feel rushed instead of slowely taken.
Upvote
0
Yeah, I agree with that. I guess my quoted text was too large, I was only referring to the accessibility bit.
Upvote
0
It's quite amusing how everyone here presumes about COD when nobody obviously never even heard about promod. You're talking about tactics in RO2? You realise how many hours of training it takes to get good at cod4PROMOD to the point of being able to play with your team of 5 players and take down an opposing high skilled team in a game of search and destroy? The reflexes, brains (yes brains, you actually have to know everything that's going on on the map), tactics and gaming talent it takes?
ANYONE in RO2 can have a decent score, which my sister's boyfriend, a 31 year old console player who never even played with a mouse and keyboard proves. He gets positive K/D scores in RO2 picking people off cross map with a bolt action rifle and capturing objectives while moving like a complete bot with 0 reflexes. I give him promod and guess what happens...
What movement momentum are you talking about? IT'S A GAME? If you want your physics perfection and realism GO ENLIST.
Frankly, I'd take cod4 promod if I want to enjoy some competitive spirit over this heap of "tactical" trash anytime
Keep that hate coming.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
You really want to go there? Really? The go-enlist argument?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
It's the only illogical logical argument when I see crap about stop momentum on a game forum. The stuff people find to complain about is horendously ridiculous when there's so many OTHER things to bash in RO2.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Most of this is dead on.
The last patch was a step in the right direction, but mostly because class limits are map specific and not really mode specific. There still really is not a noticable difference between the main modes of Realism and Relaxed Realism.
You still have alot of the little gameplay issues that should be different between the modes, but aren't. Hero weapons, sway after stamina loss, etc and all those issues that have been discussed to death elsewhere are still the same.
Its as if the true potential strengths of the game were mostly ignored to focus and cater to the crowd that was most likely to move on to other games or be most fickle about the graphics not living up to the other AAA titles. The more realism minded crowd which should be the game's foundation were overlooked. As a result that foundation (or core players numbers if you will) has clearly crumbled and its hard to build things on a shakey foundation.
All those modes created for the casual crowd clearly have suffered. Countdown, a game mode for perhaps inspired for clan matches, I have only seen that played on the test server and nowhere else. Where are the clans that should be playing this? Firefight, a mode clearly meant as an introductory mode for players new to RO is hardly played at all and while it clearly is more interesting than a typical TDM style, it isn't doing anything at all. Territory is still king.
Does anyone see a bit of a trend here? Bugs and performance issues aside, much of the casual gaming crowd isn't interested in the game and many of the rest of us are practically begging for the game to be made what it should have been all along, or at least are begging for that better Realism mode.
But enough of that rant. As I started saying, the direction is slowly improving. I hope it does get better because I have no interest in any other FPS.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
I have a feeling TWI is still not convinced certain gameplay decision are received badly by most of the current players. Maybe they can add a poll regarding hot-topics when joining a server (on the server welcome screen or something)?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Unfortunately I think you are right and that extends beyond the current player base. Alot of people were excited about ROHOS, me included. Now, I'm not excited at all and I really only play it because of the hopes that it will improve and the other FPS choices out there are worse in my opinion.
Upvote
0
I think this neatly encapsulates why there is so much dissatisfaction with RO2, at least it sums up the way I feel about it.
I would add that my personal disquiet is fuelled by the realisation that the core game play is there but remains unexploited in favour of the poorly conceived accessibility features. Rework the Realism game mode and I strongly believe that ~50% of the current complaints will evaporate*. (Maybe if we all repeat that, mantra-like, one day TWI will given in and JFDI.
)* And will be replaced with 100% more new complaints! I jest, but perhaps that’s what it feels like from the dev’s point of view.
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
It's quite amusing how everyone here presumes about COD when nobody obviously never even heard about promod. You're talking about tactics in RO2? You realise how many hours of training it takes to get good at cod4PROMOD to the point of being able to play with your team of 5 players and take down an opposing high skilled team in a game of search and destroy? The reflexes, brains (yes brains, you actually have to know everything that's going on on the map), tactics and gaming talent it takes?
ANYONE in RO2 can have a decent score, which my sister's boyfriend, a 31 year old console player who never even played with a mouse and keyboard proves. He gets positive K/D scores in RO2 picking people off cross map with a bolt action rifle and capturing objectives while moving like a complete bot with 0 reflexes. I give him promod and guess what happens...
What movement momentum are you talking about? IT'S A GAME? If you want your physics perfection and realism GO ENLIST.
Frankly, I'd take cod4 promod if I want to enjoy some competitive spirit over this heap of "tactical" trash anytime
Keep that hate coming.
That's true. I have never claimed that COD doesn't take skills to play. But there is another thing to it. Games like COD are forgiving. The pace is maxed all the time and the player aren't punished for making mistakes. It's purely for entertainment purposes. COD is mainly about quick reflexes. It's about action and being aware of the moment and being extremely responsive to everything that happens around you. But that's another story.
It sounds like you say that COD is more hardcore than RO2 because your sisters boyfriend, a 31 old console player who never even played with a mouse and keyboard proves this by gaining a good score. If you look at in a more scientific way most players consider games like RO and arma as very boring, yet very realistic compared to other videogames. This is a fact because if it was fun more people would have bought it. People only play what they enjoy. That's the very same reason why TWI made the game accessible and dumbed down. It's because it generally make the game sell more copies. This is not a mystery.
Most people don't want to sneak around for 20 minutes just to be seen, get killed, and start all over agian. Most people don't want to spend a a month or even more in order to learn to play the game efficienty, or stick around with a complex controlscheme, or wonder why they get shot 8/10 times from nowhere. Most people want to relax, after work or school, and jump right into the action without any disruptive stuff hindering them from this. Like one of the Devs said about Battlefield the line for realism ends where the game starts to be less entertaining, and less entertaining equals what most people consider as entertaining, and COD is entertaining to the majority of people and that's why so many people play it. It's called accessibility, which translate to 'a game that can be played and enjoyed by everyone'.
That's why there's a fine line between arcade games and tactical shooters.
If COD suddenly became one of the most realistic games out there the game would lose million of players.
That's the reason why VBS - the child of arma/ofp - is sold as a combat military simulator to the US military instead of COD MW series with ''promod''.
Regarding the momentum;
What I said was that there is no momentum to stop or control in RO2. For instance, if you sprint and want to stop, you have to put one leg in front of the other to stop the momentum. It's not possible to make a completely dead stop because we're made out of muscles which are elastic. It's the same thing when you sprint: It's physically impossible to stand still and go from zero sprint speed to full sprint speed at once. It's the same thing if you sprint up for a hill: Your speed will decrease. And not only that - it will decrease your stamina level like crazy.
I am not sure why you want me to enlist. Can you please explain it to me. Because I though I was talking about how to improve the movements in RO2 and make them more realistic in terms of what's possible in a videogame.
Upvote
0
Cyper, I agree with almost everything you say, almost all of the time, but from time to time you do exaggerate a little.
There is SOME inertia in RO2--a sprint does take a moment to really get going, and if you make a full 180, you will de-accelerate and have to re-accelerate. Is it enough to be realistic? Oh, not quite yet, but in that case one should make the case that there isn't ENOUGH inertia rather than asserting that there is none whatsoever.I often seem to sense a sort of schism when I play RO2. Some things, like the weapon animations and models, are finely, painstakingly crafted. The firearms in the game are the best looking and feeling in any FPS in my opinion--they have weight (except for hipfired MGs
), punch, and pulling back the bolt feels very authentic. I still can't get over the fact that the DP28 magazine actually rotates in-game, functioning as a natural ammunition counter :IS2:.Other things, yes, have been compromised on for the sake of attracting a larger playerbase... the unlock system being a shining example. Plenty of effort and hard work, but because the premise was flawed to begin with, half the weapons have no upgrades whatsoever, a quarter were exceedingly rare upgrades that are just far too superabundant when unlockeable at level 25, and then you have the cosmetic options and the handful of sensible options. Once they promised everyone the unlock system and the DDE unlocks, it was too late to go back--that's why the Mkb wreaks such havoc in the hands of almost every German assault trooper. The weapon sway and shift-zoom are also... questionable. Bandaging with such speed is also quite immersion-breaking.
Yet we can't forget that at the same time, some devs were really pushing to make a true RO2 in the spirit of the previous incarnations. Take the maps! My goodness, the maps... Balance issues and bugs notwithstanding, they're beautiful, finely crafted, and with a few exceptions, almost totally identical to their real-world counterparts.
Essentially, RO2 is in a state of identity crisis, and I think it's unfair to lump everything and the kitchen sink into the category of "accessible." Some things are pushing one way, other things in the polar opposite direction. Instead of calling the whole game a failed experiment, let's give credit where due, and give more specific criticism in general.
The presence of some highly realistic features and the hope for change (either dev-created or by mod teams) is what keeps me playing on an intermittent basis.
If a dev were to ask me, however, about what I think draws the most new players to Red Orchestra, I would have to say cold, immersive, historically accurate, and intellectual realism is Red Orchestra's strong suit and always has been. The fundamentals of not knowing how much ammunition you have in your clip, angling your tank and dialing in the range on your main gun, bracing your rifle against the windowsill to pick off that silhouette in the distance... those were the immersive, realistic elements that brought me into Red Orchestra along with thousands of others. Tripwire's strength with regards to RO lies in loving detail combined with teamplay-oriented and brutally unforgiving gameplay. That's the draw. That's what keeps new players coming. Every few weeks a totally new forum member shows up and exclaims about how much he loves the realism, how the game feels more real than anything else he's ever played, how that first kill comes with a genuine sense of accomplishment.
I have yet to see a newcomer enter the game and say "Wow! The Mkb makes playing this game totally worthwhile!"
Honestly, the game isn't that far from being what everyone wants it to be... a few brave tweaks, and it'll reach its full potential. I too like the direction of RO2--it can only get better from here on out.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
That's just they gave us a little cracker and yes, I really appreciate it since I'm playing RO2 as I really want to like the game.
It's tiresome, RO2 could be so good but this change is just the beginning. Things like the stats are there to stay (and I don't like them
) But this would mean a lot of insight for TWI and they would have to accept that some design choices where just wrong. I don't think this is going to happen (please, make it happen).I mean, I myself was marketing for RO2 and I was really hyped. More hyped than I was for a game the last 10 years or something. Many people felt this way. But TWI didn't pick us up, they let us down big time. Why?
If you ask me, I think it's because the "management level" (or a *certain* person) at TWI are not professional enough. Look at Paradox for an example how you do it right. Sure they make completly other games but they know who their costumers are and deliver to them. Just look at Europa Universalis 2 where the Intro said "This is for our fans". That fact (and a game about Mages) is the reason why they are so big right now. They belive in their product.
TWI seem to not belive in RO2 or wanted to make another game. That's okay but then they lied to us and this is more wrong than anything else.
Edit: Now I see that Nikita said what I basicly wanted to say, just better. Nice.
Last edited:
Upvote
0