Hipshooting MGs too slow.

[Atomskytten]

Why is it necessary to press "f" in order to be able to hipshoot with the machine guns when in reality the gun would have been carried in the close combat stance rather than in the marching stance as it is now? - This is kind of perplexing and hard to accept that when moving in a combat enviroment that the machine gunner does not have his gun ready to fire from the hip. The need of having to enter the close combat stance is both unatural and unrealistic given the games circumstances. In real life it is quite possible to move about with a machine gun ready to fire from the hip in the same manner as with an ordinary rifle, indeed trotting and shooting like we see is possible with rifles is possible with an real life machine gun like the MG 3 - the major difference being that the arms tire faster due to increased weight - it is just as easy if not easier to hipshoot with a machine gun than with a bolt action rifle as it is just a matter of following the bullet impacts and so the machine gun is a more devastating weapon in close quarters action in real life than in this game. Please change this in order to increase game realism.

P.S. While I am at it please make it possible to fire the MG42 from the hip - it is both possible and easy to do so in real life and if the 100 round belt is causing the concern of doing so reduce the belt to 50 rounds instead..

 

[SasQuatch]

I held the MG34 in my own hands and man that thing is heavy. Jogging with it while holding it fire-ready on your side is something you won't be able to do for long. And you can do it in RO, just at the cost of speed. But there's nothing stopping you from having it ready all the time.

 

[Jaesperson]

except for the enormous sway that comes after 5 seconds of holding it that way

 

[SasQuatch]

except for the enormous sway that comes after 5 seconds of holding it that way

Like i said, I held it, it's god awefull heavy. We might have overdone the sway, but then again, walking around with it makes you sway the gun alot.

 

[Zetsumei]

What about the gigantic kickback when firing it. It goes all over the room pointing straight to the sky. It jumps alot faster than lightweight smgs. Even when firing short bursts. I know it are rifle rounds but still. You can easilly miss someone standing 10 meters away from you.

 

[Dheepan]

If your an mger, you have a pistol. Problem solved.

Besides you shouldn't be trying to engage in close quarters combat all too often.

 

[SasQuatch]

What about the gigantic kickback when firing it. It goes all over the room pointing straight to the sky. It jumps alot faster than lightweight smgs. Even when firing short bursts. I know it are rifle rounds but still. You can easilly miss someone standing 10 meters away from you.

The first time I fired the MG74 (basically a MG42 firing at 850 rounds rate) deployed on a table the instructor had to support my back You get better at it though. These things have enormous kickback, and to my surprise, I felt every bullet leaving the barrel where i expected a stream of push.
Again, we might have overdone the kick, it's not perfect, but then again, it's not that easy when you pull the trigger walking around. You'll have to take time to fully brace yourself standing still.

 

[mat69]

MG74, in what country did you serve, Austria?

Well I fired the MG74 as well and I had not these problems you talk about. I even fired it once standing on my toes - I'm short and the trench we fired from was too deep - and short bursts still were no problem (not very precise, but well ...). We were also marching holding the MG at the hip position for ages (at least that's what we thought ).

 

[g4cytheclown]

You try shooting a 7.92mm round at 2,400ft/sec unsupported near your waist and then tell me RO overdid the recoil. While me and a friend were hip shooting his AK-47 (7.62mm x 39mm - a lot smaller than the German 7.92mm), the thing jumps around was nearly impossible to get an accurate shot after the first.

 

[slyder73]

Why is it necessary to press "f" in order to be able to hipshoot with the machine guns when in reality the gun would have been carried in the close combat stance rather than in the marching stance as it is now? - This is kind of perplexing and hard to accept that when moving in a combat enviroment that the machine gunner does not have his gun ready to fire from the hip. The need of having to enter the close combat stance is both unatural and unrealistic given the games circumstances. In real life it is quite possible to move about with a machine gun ready to fire from the hip in the same manner as with an ordinary rifle, indeed trotting and shooting like we see is possible with rifles is possible with an real life machine gun like the MG 3 - the major difference being that the arms tire faster due to increased weight - it is just as easy if not easier to hipshoot with a machine gun than with a bolt action rifle as it is just a matter of following the bullet impacts and so the machine gun is a more devastating weapon in close quarters action in real life than in this game. Please change this in order to increase game realism.

P.S. While I am at it please make it possible to fire the MG42 from the hip - it is both possible and easy to do so in real life and if the 100 round belt is causing the concern of doing so reduce the belt to 50 rounds instead..

MG'ers did not carry their guns at their hips ready to fire. They were deployed in teams and carried it more like luggage than a gun from point to point. They are heavy and unweildy, and without being properly deployed kick all over the place. Once the MG team set up, dug into the ground to get the bipod or tripod level, cleared the brush/grass/whatever away from where the belt will be fed in so debris didn't get pulled through with the ammunition....THEN it was ready to go. Not to say that sometimes they didn't...but they'd have been more likely to get themselves killed doing that, than just backing off and setting up properly to cover the area their squad was advancing to or defending.

I think it is a nice and quaint option that TW has given us to be able to fire the MG from the hip and even not to have to have the rest of the MG team, but as for hip firing, yes it would take some manouvreing and readying to get it into firing position that way and be very ineffective, basically the MG'ers did not go into battle firing from the hip.

They were static deployed, often several hundreds of yards from the enemy lines and often wouldn't even know where the enemy was, simply laying down a field of fire in a general direction at a set height above the ground. Some German MG teams worked in tandem at night, with one team firing above the heads of the enemy with tracer rounds, to make them crouch and feel confident to advance out of cover below that level, then secondary teams firing non-tracer rounds at knee level, unseen sheets of lead cutting down the enemy from out of nowhere. Nasty stuff.

 

[Wolfstuka]

You try shooting a 7.92mm round at 2,400ft/sec unsupported near your waist and then tell me RO overdid the recoil. While me and a friend were hip shooting his AK-47 (7.62mm x 39mm - a lot smaller than the German 7.92mm), the thing jumps around was nearly impossible to get an accurate shot after the first.

Yes because the AK is about 2-4 times lighter. I seen pictures of a guy firing MG34 and 42 in assault mode and while it is tough RO might have overdone it a bit.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

some good points here an some bad ones, imo the weapons should be realistic, BUT dont make the mgs to easy to use less we have lots of rambos running around just hip mging, and i already see lots of those. machinegunners are supposed to stay back..

 

[SasQuatch]

MG74, in what country did you serve, Austria?

Well I fired the MG74 as well and I had not these problems you talk about. I even fired it once standing on my toes - I'm short and the trench we fired from was too deep - and short bursts still were no problem (not very precise, but well ...). We were also marching holding the MG at the hip position for ages (at least that's what we thought ).

Like I said, you can hold the RO mg34 on the hip ready for ages if you want. It comes with a speed penalty; you can't JOG with it, only walk. That again leads probably to a perception issue; players will preceive the true walk speed in RO as snail speed, while in fact it's just a guy walking. The default speed in RO is a jog which is what you are used to, and most games even have a much faster default move speed then RO has at jog.
You on your toes is a nice story, but we are talking shooting the gun from the hip here, unsupported and usually walking. Show me a vid where you shoot these guns from the hip on your toes and i'll make a case in the team here to change the MG hipshooting

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

some good points here an some bad ones, imo the weapons should be realistic, BUT dont make the mgs to easy to use less we have lots of rambos running around just hip mging, and i already see lots of those. machinegunners are supposed to stay back..

I have noticed that also lately, more than a few running around with the mg hipshooting.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

You try shooting a 7.92mm round at 2,400ft/sec unsupported near your waist and then tell me RO overdid the recoil. While me and a friend were hip shooting his AK-47 (7.62mm x 39mm - a lot smaller than the German 7.92mm), the thing jumps around was nearly impossible to get an accurate shot after the first.

a swedish friend has a AK47 in modified for 7.62mm x 51m. I wouldnt believe it if i havnt seen it, It kicks like a mule, and forget about accuracy, but its possible to shoot.

 

[mat69]

There is a video named MG3 on youtube (can't access the page right now) showing some Norwegian soldiers fireing the MG3.

But I guess most important would be to know if these techniques (showed in the video) were actually used/trained, if not there should not be the option imo, I'm sure you'd use the bipod most times in reality.

 

[HansGering]

There is a video named MG3 on youtube (can't access the page right now) showing some Norwegian soldiers fireing the MG3.

But I guess most important would be to know if these techniques (showed in the video) were actually used/trained, if not there should not be the option imo, I'm sure you'd use the bipod most times in reality.

Most lightly this one =) quite alot of hipshooting there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoAWKGEpYj8&mode=related&search=



But while we are talking about hipshooting, this is the all around beater:

 

[Nifel]

Most lightly this one =) quite alot of hipshooting there.

Nice clip, that is what I have been talking about for the past 10 months! Well not the clip but the the hipshooting anyway. I have used the MG3 just like in the clip and notice how controllable it is when standing or kneeling.

You can't trust various other crap-clips where civilians fire the weapon - you need to know it to be effective.

As for you SasQuatch, you may have fired it but 2 - 3 years of training makes a world of difference. The soldiers in the clip have had 6 - 10 months of training at most, including 3 months of boot camp where they don't use MG much at all.

The German MG'ers during WW2 had a couple years of experience, not counting the weeks and months of real combat experience.

Simply put, add hipshooting with MG42 and lower the recoil

PS: You say the MG34 is heavy, and I guess it is, but with the MG3 at least we used the strap around our shoulders for the weight and that makes it relatively convenient to carry around at the ready.

 

[panzerknacker]

I have noticed that also lately, more than a few running around with the mg hipshooting.

That Hampster is a little punk, he goes in a room full o russkies 34 at the hip, and all you hear is
brap.brap.bzzzzzzt brap.brap.bzzzt--.brap.

and you go charging in to support and hes standing there amongst 5 dead russkies in a room full of gunsmoke.

 

[Atomskytten]

Of course a machine gun is heavy! and it is tough work to carry it around in the close combat stance but this is something you train your body to cope with as a soldier - especially as a machine gunner. I seriously doubt that as a machine gunner you would run around brandishing his pistol for close protection when in fact the machine gun is more effective and easier to use when in the hip firing stance as opposed to having it slung over your shoulder or held in one arm while using the pistol in the other..
Take my word for it when I say that it is possible to carry a MG3/42 in the hip shooting stance for hours on end and still be able to place accurate hipfire on targets out to 50 meters - it is bloody hard for the arms but adrenaline and sheer willpower makes it possible. Even if the machine gun per design was not meant for close combat the MG34/42 were and are superior to bolt action and semiauto rifles such as K43 and the SVT due to their design features - unlike what you might believe that they are weapons kicked wildly about in a heavy recoil when fired from the hip they are in fact very easy to control when fired in short bursts to long bursts (3-4, 6-8 shots respectively) or even a full 48 round belt provided the gunner knows how to hold and operate his weapon. It is my experience that firing and hitting targets out to 50 meters with the MG3 is faster to do in the hipfiring stance than when lying in the deplyed position as it is only a matter of "point and click" observe bullet splash and then correct the fire than having to observe the acquire the target in the sights before shooting - beyond that range hip shooting becomes waste of ammo but not impossible. Since the design of the MG3/42 and MG34 are very similar in the manner how they transfer recoil to the gunner they would be indentical in the manner they are used in the hip shooting stance and the lower recoil of the MG34 should be even more managable than the MG3/42.