Helmet Deflection

[Kurtz]

If a bullet hit the helmet at a perpendicular angle, it would penetrate (discounting a very long range pistol shot). .45ACP is not comparable to the pistol calibers in game, it's a much slower round with less penetration.

If the bullet hit the helmet at an angle oblique enough to deflect, then chances are the hit is at the extreme edges at the helmet and it wouldn't hit the skull if it penetrated anyway. Bottomline is helmets are not for stopping bullets, and bullets actually being stopped by helmets would be rare enough to be not worth modeling.

 

[Crim]

Hey, pro-hint: in real tank combat, whoever gets the first shot usually wins.

The fact that this isn't the way it is in RO is a result of RO's currently unrealistic tank combat.

Let's take a look at handgun ammo ballistics.

A .45ACP FMJ cartridge has a 12 gram bullet moving at 235 meters per second out of the barrel.

A 9mm parabellum FMJ cartridge has a 7.475 gram bullet moving at 381 meters per second out of the barrel.

A 7.62x25mm FMJ cartridge has a 6.175 gram bullet moving at 430+ meters per second out of the barrel.

Helmets already can be knocked off without having to be killed.

 

[LordKhaine]

I HOPE you're not referring to Saving Private Ryan, because that sniper round deflecting off that guy's helmet was just bollocks. A helmet doesn't deflect any rifle round. It's there to protect you from debris, falling demage, ricochets and fragments. Not bullets.

I wouldn't call it "bollocks" how it's portrayed in the film. As I recall a shot hits at an angle and bounces off, and everyone looks suprised as if it's a rare thing and the guy was lucky. And frankly I'm sure a few bullets were deflected by helmets in real life.. and just like in the film it was a very rare thing. I'm sure the follow up shot reaffirmed to most people the level of protection such a helmet usually offers against bullets.

That said.. do I think it should be modeled ingame? no. Maybe model in some extra protection against shrapnel from grenades, but any benefit of a steel helmet against a rifle round is statistically so slim that it shouldn't be added to the game.

 

[myzko]

Im not saying it should be like tank combat but it seems you like to twist my words Crim. I just don't like it when in most tank combat games whoever gets the first shot is bound to win unless they are really bad aims. Red Orchestra doesn't have that and that's why it's so damn good. I just think that have the occasional deflect/helmet knock-off would be a nice touch. Off course you can disagree but only on what i have actually stated

He was just joking. Also I've seen grazing wounds happen to my head all the time so I assume it's my helmet protecting me.

 

[|9.SS|Emil Fischer]

I read an account of an instance where a bullet penetrated the helmet, was somehow dfelcted upwards into the lining, went around the person's head and then wen out the other side, leaving two holes. Lucky bastard.

 

[Sclass12]

Can modern day helmets deflect bullets, i hear they have kevlar plates in them now.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm

 

[Crim]

7.62x25mm is one hot little round, huh?

 

[Midshipman]

Can modern day helmets deflect bullets, i hear they have kevlar plates in them now.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

and just like in the film it was a very rare thing. I'm sure the follow up shot reaffirmed to most people the level of protection such a helmet usually offers against bullets.

I'm not sure how that bullet hit at an angle, if you look at the guys helmet it was a direct hit, and it would certainly would have penetrated at that range. Hey if you are so confident about the level of protection a helmet offers, why don't you go put one on, and I'll grab my 30-06 and we'll see how it turns out.

 

[Sclass12]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm

Beat you by two posts.

 

[thedonster]

Hollywood has never been a good reference.

If a soldier is wearing a chinstrap then I doubt their helmet would fall off. I do believe if you hit someone in the head their helment will fall off

Or maybe if it's a rifle bullet the helmet stays on and their head falls off!

 

[Zell]

I HOPE you're not referring to Saving Private Ryan, because that sniper round deflecting off that guy's helmet was just bollocks. A helmet doesn't deflect any rifle round. It's there to protect you from debris, falling demage, ricochets and fragments. Not bullets.

That bullet didn't deflect off the helmet; it glanced off the side, and it was a stray bullet.

 

[Crim]

I like how some people are talking about the one scene in Saving Private Ryan.

Moreover, I like how they keep saying it wasn't a sniper bullet, but a stray bullet.

Glancing off the side sure sounds like deflection to me.

Also, notice how the first bullet barely missed. The second bullet then hit the actor in the forehead, mere seconds afterward.

Sure looked like a followup shot to me.

stray bullets lol

This thread is over.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

I don't think there were many stray bullets in a situation like that. Germans on a cliff, shooting down, onto people, it hit the front of the guys helmet, meaning the bullet came from straight ahead from up on the cliff, mmmmmm, sure as hell doesn't seem like a stray to me, and a 7.62 stray would still penetrate, unless it richocheted or was shot like a mortar round.

 

[Tak]

and a 7.62 stray would still penetrate, unless it richocheted or was shot like a mortar round.

And, if you've ever set the rear-sight on a Mosin all the way forward (the 1000 meter position) it looks pretty much like you're doing just that


But didn't the krauts use 7.92 (8mm Mauser) instead of 7.62? Or is there some 1337 snipz0r rifle I don't know about?


7.62x54r is the holy round. Handguns should be chambed in it. Very big handguns.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

yeah 7.92, its nearly the same.

 

[Velcro Warrior]

I'm sensing another Map orchestra experiement. I have a Russian helmet which I think I'll take to the range and fire 7.62 rounds into it from various distances. Probably record it too...

 

[Zell]

I like how some people are talking about the one scene in Saving Private Ryan.

Moreover, I like how they keep saying it wasn't a sniper bullet, but a stray bullet.

Glancing off the side sure sounds like deflection to me.

Also, notice how the first bullet barely missed. The second bullet then hit the actor in the forehead, mere seconds afterward.

Sure looked like a followup shot to me.

stray bullets lol

This thread is over.

Whateva. Maybe the second bullet was another lucky stray bullet. ..A very accurate stray bullet. With perfect timing. <.<

And by 'glanced off the side', I meant that it would have missed the guy's head anyway had he not had the helmet, it just pinged into the side of the helmet where it stuck out. The path of the bullet probably wasn't changed, which goes back to the original topic: true deflection can't happen.

 

[Greger]

As far as stray bullets go, when the allies assaulted Normandy on the beaches, stray machinegun shots were quite abundant.

It has been documented that many german machine gunners defending the beach were so overwhelmed by the massive amount of invading soldiers that they commonly sprayed left to right with their machine guns, unable to mentally focus enough to fix on a target.

This wasn't always the case, but it was common.

Also, Im sure that the gunners themselves were poorly prepared. It was assumed by Rommell that the weather would be too poor for an invasion so the troops were off their guard. Rommell himself had gone back to visit his family.

As far as SPR goes, the way he was hit again suggests somone actually aiming for his head, but a round bouncing off his helmet? I believe that suggests a stray or poorly placed round. A round hitting dead on would not bounce off.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

As far as SPR goes, the way he was hit again suggests somone actually aiming for his head, but a round bouncing off his helmet? I believe that suggests a stray or poorly placed round. A round hitting dead on would not bounce off.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but a stray shot isn't any less powerful than any other shot (unless fired from extremely long range and the bullet loses velocity or the bullet richochets off an object which results in losing velocity). In the movie, there was NOTHING the bullet could have richochetted off of to hit the guy at that angle, and the range was, at the most extreme, 150-200 meters. If you notice the bullet clearly makes a solid dent in the helmet (trust me I managed to pause it right when the bullet hit, and after the bullet hit, and you can CLEARLY see that it was a direct shot) a "glancing shot" wouldn't have made such a dent, if the bullet would have glanced it would have made a shallow long dent (imagine it like a valley) and it would have tooken the paint off the helmet.