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Helmet Deflection

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#45
[5.SS]Strother said:
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but a stray shot isn't any less powerful than any other shot (unless fired from extremely long range and the bullet loses velocity or the bullet richochets off an object which results in losing velocity). In the movie, there was NOTHING the bullet could have richochetted off of to hit the guy at that angle, and the range was, at the most extreme, 150-200 meters. If you notice the bullet clearly makes a solid dent in the helmet (trust me I managed to pause it right when the bullet hit, and after the bullet hit, and you can CLEARLY see that it was a direct shot) a "glancing shot" wouldn't have made such a dent, if the bullet would have glanced it would have made a shallow long dent (imagine it like a valley) and it would have tooken the paint off the helmet.
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Now, can you tell if it was a pistol, rifle or mg bullet from freeze framing the film?

Can you tell if the bullet was aimed at the actor or just passing nearby and happend to ping off his helmet? I'm at work so i can't, but it looked like it was intended to be a near miss.

As i remember it sorta skimmed down one side of his helmet as opposed to being a direct hit dent directly on the front of the helmet.

Besides i believe that most armyies upto the last 20-30 years ago were trained to put down as much weight of fire as possible - ie NOT aimed fire just used to keep the other sides heads down and prevent them from fireing back. In that situation most people killed or wounded would be hit with "stray" shots ie a round fired in their general direction NOT directly at an individual target.
 
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#47
Even modern day helmets don't stop bullets, only under a certain angle where the bullet COULD and I repeat COULD deflect.
In one of the first weeks of military school (which I have finished a few months ago) a Sergeant said to us, this thing is made out of Kevlar but don't take one in the head cause a bullet can pierce it like a knife through butter..

November will be the month for me, Mechanised Infantry! yeah!!
 
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#48
Has anyone else read "Chickenhawk" by Bill Mason???
It's a semi autobiographical book by a Huey pilot in Vietnam.

It recounts the story of a Huey pilot who was hit in his flight helmet. The round entered the airframe near / through the floor, through the pilot's flight helmet, and struck him near the left temple. The round was deflected up and travelled round INSIDE the helmet, and struck the pilot a 2nd time, near the right temple and out the helmet. He's raised his left hand up, feeling the hole and the blood. The pilot in the other seat is freaking out, because he can see the hole and the blood on the right side. Poor guy thought he'd been shot straight through the head.
 
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#50
Possible it's shrapenal, but most the artillary rounds were going after the boats, not the seawall.

Also, I just think it looks more like a bullet (leaving a round groove on the side of his helmet)

I dont think it bounced off, just skimmed the side, I mean it did cut a path along side the helmet.
 
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#55
Can you tell if the bullet was aimed at the actor or just passing nearby and happend to ping off his helmet? I'm at work so i can't, but it looked like it was intended to be a near miss.
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Well like I said I paused it and saw that it was a direct hit, he even shows you the helmet and it is a nice direct dent not a skim (this was about half a year ago when I watched it last) It could have been possible that it was shrapnel, but in the movie, there was no nearby explosion at that instant from the direction the hit happened. It COULD have been a pistol, but in reality most of those German troops at Omaha were not Germans (Polish mostly if my memory serves me right) and most of the troops didn't have a pistol, the officers would have had them. I would assume that the officers on the bluff would be smart enough to know that their pistol is out of effective range, it would take a hell of a lucky shot to lob a pistol round that distance and hit the guy directly in the helmet. Odds are it was a high caliber round that hit him.

I meant stray shot as in the bullet only hit the side of his helmet, if it were an aimed shot, im pretty sure it would have killed him the first time.
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In the movie it was a direct hit, like I said I paused it on that exact instance, and went frame by frame, it was a direct hit, it doesn't matter if the guy was aiming or spraying wildly, the bullet hit him directly. The only way it wouldn't have penetrated from a direct hit is if it were a richochet and I disproved that, or if it were a pistol and that is HIGHLY unlikely, or the bullet could have been fired into the sky and the bullet landed on his helmet.

You 5th SS kids are too arrogant sometimes.
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:rolleyes: You people who don't bother to read people's post which contain logical thoughts are too arrogant sometimes.
 
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#56
Slashbot_427 said:
1KG Hammer at 10m/s= 5joules

20gram pistol bullet at 300m/s= 900joules.

Obviously the energy transfer into the helmet will be different but iff the hemet did stop a bullet cold at range, surely it would be like someone smacking you in the head with a sledge hammer. thats going to knock you out at the least
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The formula for calculating joules is J= (kg*m
 
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#58
[StB]Phantom said:
http://www.secondworldwarhistory.com/m1_helmet_design.asp
In the end the scene in SPR was for dramatic effect
Made as entertainment,regardless of any plus or minus basis in reality.

Any chance of survival after bullet impact to a helmet comes down to a lot of factors-main one being luck.
The above link will give you guys info about the M1 Helmet and its design.
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Like Phantom said - the main factor in this silly argument would be luck. As for arguing over the scene in SPR - we don't know anything about the situation. It is a plausible scene, in my opinion. There are a ton of factors which could have affected the shot - faulty bullet construction, improper gunpowder load, bullet seated incorrectly in case, etc. etc. There are a million factors that could lead to a helmet deflecting a rifle round which it should not be able to do according to its design.
 
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#59
faulty bullet construction, improper gunpowder load, bullet seated incorrectly in case, etc. etc. There are a million factors that could lead to a helmet deflecting a rifle round which it should not be able to do according to its design.
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But could those things reduce the velocity of the bullet enough at 100 m to prevent it from penetrating? In the movie it is clear that the purpose of the scene was to show a direct shot richochet off the helmet. I seriously doubt that Speilberg thought about improper gunpowder load, or faulty bullet construction.
 
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