Gun Control in the Socialist Republic of Kahlifornia

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GonzoX

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Lucius said:
No, that is where you are wrong. I can get a gun here legally if I want to. But unlike you guys I don't need it because I don't feel insecure and I don't live in a bad area.

So owning a gun is indicative of being "insecure"?!?

WTF?

Were our founding fathers "insecure" then?

That sounds like something a mental midget would say. :mad:

Again, I don't live in a bad area either and it is NOT about being insecure. It is about our right under the 2nd amendment and exercising it. What do you not get about that? Again, I suggest you actually watch the video that I posted a link for to get a clue.
 
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FlashPanHunter

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GonzoX said:
You are exactly correct. The 2nd Amendment is there to remind our Government that "We The People" have the power to "teard down the establishment".

That IS it's intended purpose. Our forefathers understood that we needed Arms to remain free and keep any would-be tyrant from gaining too much control.
Your politics aside, I think that you should examine the history surrounding the constitution a little more closely, it's very interesting, and it undermines in many ways the sort of populist, death to tyrants mythos that you and many others attribute to it.
 

[CiA]Stiletto

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Nov 22, 2005
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Actually, I own guns precisely because I'm insecure. I'm not insecure in my sexuality, but I am insecure in my ability to defend myself physically (I'm 145lb and 6'3"—not exactly hand-to-hand fighting material), I am insecure in my belief that the government is really looking out for my best interests, and I am insecure in my belief that the police will actually be there if/when I need it. Guns drastically bolster my feelings of security and well-being in those areas.

There's a difference between being "secure" and simply being a "sheep" .
 

Mikhail Kalashnikov

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Feb 19, 2006
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GonzoX said:
You are exactly correct. The 2nd Amendment is there to remind our Government that "We The People" have the power to "teard down the establishment".

That IS it's intended purpose. Our forefathers understood that we needed Arms to remain free and keep any would-be tyrant from gaining too much control.

Here in the U.S. you are considered a conservative if you want to "conserve" the 2nd Amendment. The term "liberal" actually means something completely different here than it does in Europe so many Europeans seem to be confused about our Liberals vs their Liberals.

To sum it up, Liberals here are not about Liberty at all.

Liberals in the U.S. are evil beings that want to sell out our country and destroy our freedom loving Constitution one piece at a time. :D That pretty much sums it up. However, do not cunfuse liberals with the new Libertarian Party. That's a whole different issue for a later thread.

I am however Glad to see that somebody here besides a few of us Americans understand the concept and meaning of the 2nd Amendment.

At least not all European nations have given in to political correctness and dissarmed their citizens. Switzerland and Finland being the main roll model.
Any other ones?

for the record my friend, i live in texas and was born in seattle washington. i have never been outside of the north american continent, let alone been to europe.
I see things the way i do because i am marxist. I am however, quite my own individual, as i in fact am a devout christian/roman catholic as well.
I would like to point out though, for the sake of debate, that it was the conservative movements in america that kept slavery going as long as it did, it was conservatives that joined hate groups that killed blacks in the south, and that our conservative president established the now infamous "PATRIOT ACT", which is quite dentrimental to our rights. glad to see we see eye to eye here on the second amendment issue though!
 

Bender711

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Apr 12, 2006
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No one said that the right wing was all right (and if they did they are wrong).
It seems that no matter which side you vote for you loose half of your rights and you just vote for the rights you like best. But thats what the Libertarian party is for, you get all your rights!:D
 

[CoFR]BooBoo

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To reiterate, the Second Amendment is, and always has been, the guarantee that all other rights listed in the Bill of Rights (by definition the first 10 amendments) will continue to BE rights. Let me fire a few quotes your way. You may take them as you will:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm...is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the Constitutional rights secure." - Albert Einstein

"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proven to be always possible." - Senator Hubert H. Humphry (D-Minnesota)

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Thomas Paine

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" - Noah Webster, 1888

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside...Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived the use of them...the weak will become a prey to the strong." - Thomas Paine

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." - Richard Henry Lee

"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." - Patrick Henry

"We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts -- not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln

"I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American's guarantee of freedom." - President Harry S. Truman

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And now for a few from the other side of the argument:

"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State." - Heinrich Himmler

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a sine qua non ["something essential" lit. "without which not"] for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or police." -Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938

"There are going to be situations where people are going to go without assistance. That's just the facts of life." - LA Chief of Police, Daryl F. Gates

"If the opposition (citizen) disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves." - Josef Stalin

"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." - Sarah Brady
 
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Deathsai

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Nov 24, 2005
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What is the difference between a person wanting to own a firearm and the difference between someone wanting to own a nice sports car as opposed to something not as classy but still drivable?
 

[CiA]Stiletto

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Nov 22, 2005
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Deathsai said:
What is the difference between a person wanting to own a firearm and the difference between someone wanting to own a nice sports car as opposed to something not as classy but still drivable?
Guns are cheaper. :D
 

GonzoX

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Mikhail Kalashnikov said:
for the record my friend, i live in texas and was born in seattle washington. i have never been outside of the north american continent, let alone been to europe.
I see things the way i do because i am marxist. I am however, quite my own individual, as i in fact am a devout christian/roman catholic as well.
I would like to point out though, for the sake of debate, that it was the conservative movements in america that kept slavery going as long as it did, it was conservatives that joined hate groups that killed blacks in the south, and that our conservative president established the now infamous "PATRIOT ACT", which is quite dentrimental to our rights. glad to see we see eye to eye here on the second amendment issue though!

Well Laudiii beee. I gave up my slaves a long time ago so you can go there with me on that.
 

GonzoX

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[CiA]Stiletto said:
Guns are cheaper. :D

And they appreciate in value. Cars depreciate.

Firearms are an excellent investment. There are many reasons to collect them. The 2nd Amendment is the most important though so I tend to remind people of that.

There is this stereotypical myth that the liberals have perpatrated that it's about hunting and home defense. Their lies have been so succesfull that your average American does not even have a clue that the 2nd Amendment exists let alone realize it's true intent. :mad:

I try to do my part in destroying that myth online and in person whenever I can. There is an old saying in that "If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth."

So I do what I can to kill that myth.
 

Musketeer

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Mar 21, 2006
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Mikhail Kalashnikov said:
for the record my friend, i live in texas and was born in seattle washington. i have never been outside of the north american continent, let alone been to europe.
I see things the way i do because i am marxist. I am however, quite my own individual, as i in fact am a devout christian/roman catholic as well.
I would like to point out though, for the sake of debate, that it was the conservative movements in america that kept slavery going as long as it did, it was conservatives that joined hate groups that killed blacks in the south, and that our conservative president established the now infamous "PATRIOT ACT", which is quite dentrimental to our rights. glad to see we see eye to eye here on the second amendment issue though!

Marxist, that's a good one. Of course having been to Seattle many times for work I could see how such an outdated and disproven ideology could flourish there. How is it recieved in Texas? Even the Chinese are tossing Marxist philosophy in order to improve their economy and feed their people. Cuba and certain liberal US wanna be communist cities seem to be the last holdouts...

Please refresh my memory, who was it supporting slavery?

Democrats.

Who also passed and signed the Emancipation Proclemation?

Republicans.

Who appointed the first woman to the Supreme Court?

Republicans

Who appointed the first black to the Supreme Court?

Republicans

Who had the first black Secretary of State?

Republicans

Which Administration has had more women and minorities in high positions than any preceding it?

Bush and the Republicans

While Bush did push the Patriot Act through, and I curse him for it, he most certainly had help from both sides of the aisle. If anything the outcry from the right seemed as loud or louder than that from the left.
 

Switchblade

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Nov 21, 2005
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Holland
Might I point out that politics in whatever form is not an allowed topic on this board, and since this thread is going more and more towards a republican/democrat/liberal discusion it is very much in the danger zone.

talk about guns, and leave it at that
 

Mikhail Kalashnikov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 19, 2006
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Musketeer said:
Marxist, that's a good one. Of course having been to Seattle many times for work I could see how such an outdated and disproven ideology could flourish there. How is it recieved in Texas? Even the Chinese are tossing Marxist philosophy in order to improve their economy and feed their people. Cuba and certain liberal US wanna be communist cities seem to be the last holdouts...

Please refresh my memory, who was it supporting slavery?

Democrats.

Who also passed and signed the Emancipation Proclemation?

Republicans.

Who appointed the first woman to the Supreme Court?

Republicans

Who appointed the first black to the Supreme Court?

Republicans

Who had the first black Secretary of State?

Republicans

Which Administration has had more women and minorities in high positions than any preceding it?

Bush and the Republicans

While Bush did push the Patriot Act through, and I curse him for it, he most certainly had help from both sides of the aisle. If anything the outcry from the right seemed as loud or louder than that from the left.

please, I know perfectly well the type of knot you're trying to tie around me, and I'm glad to know that I can cut through it. For one thing, I don't like either the republican or the democratic parties. note in my last post you quoted I never used that word, I instead used the word conservative.
I think that democrats are a bunch of stupid cowards, as they refuse to call themselves liberals(and really, all politicians in D.C and otherwise are mostly a bunch of rich old sleezebags, if you ask me. I'd like to see them give a bunch of speeches in the ghettos). The democrats are also stupid because they seem to be completely forgetting about grassroots, working class, union support etc. and instead are cowing to the wants and needs of the small community of Gays, Lesbians, and atheists. So no, to me, both parties are full of pricks, but the present day republican party has more of them and with more malicious purposes imo. The democrats are the lesser of two evils, and I wish that other parties would be able to enter the fray with half a chance of winning.
The republican party used to be, indeed, quite progressive, being founded seemingly almost entirely to halt the spread of slavery and bring about its eventual abolishment. Abraham Lincoln was a man to be respected, for sure, much more so than Dixie-Crats, which I have no patience for.

Your other comments are just as laughable to me. I said I was born in Seattle, not that I've been there much since birth or approve of its capitalism. Every big city in this country is full of crap in that regards if you ask me.
Also, since I'd probably get verbally hazed by some self-righteous promoters of the not-so-free market, I have yet to anounce to the entire texan community my ideology. By wannabe communist american cities, what are you refering to, LA?
You make me laugh, considering you'd speak of a city full of arrogant, rich, hollywood people who shop for the nicest brands on the west coast, oblivious to the slave labor often used to make their expensive clothes. The hypocrisy and/ or untruthfulness of stating that LA and other such cities are socialist/communist is further expounded by the mass poverty and crime that occurs not too far from all the glitz and glamour of Beverly Hills.
So let me get this idea you have so far: A city that thrives on capitalism, that has a number of these ultra wealthy communities where snobbish white people live in excess, and at the same time not too far away all the minorities are living in tiny houses in way poorer conditions, many having to kill, steal, and deal drugs to make enough bucks to live, YOU THINK THIS IS A COMMUNIST SOCIETY? I'm out now, can't wait to see how this is all responded to.

P.S. It's true that after failing at it for so long, the chinese have given up on communism. They are begining to resemble fascists and the rightwing. Of all the countries that we have to choose from in our unnecessary warmongering, I'd suggest going after the chinese, as they have nukes and keep their people under oppression.
 

User Name

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Jan 12, 2006
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There is only one way to change this government without bloodshed. That is to vote out all incumbents of both parties.

On that note this thread has become far too political and I vote it be locked.
 

Mikhail Kalashnikov

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Feb 19, 2006
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Switchblade said:
Might I point out that politics in whatever form is not an allowed topic on this board, and since this thread is going more and more towards a republican/democrat/liberal discusion it is very much in the danger zone.

talk about guns, and leave it at that

sorry switchblade, i was busy typing that last post and didn't see what you said till it was too late.
 

Musketeer

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Mar 21, 2006
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I too am out of the politics game here. I saw the left/right thing come up and just responded, oops.
 

Switchblade

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Nov 21, 2005
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Holland
It's ok guys, I guessed that much when I saw how long that post was ;)

It's just that we had very bad experiences in the past when it comes to political discussions. I mean even this fire-arms topic is starting to degrade to mudslinging etc. so we don't need more fire on the wood if you know what I mean
 

The Soup Nazi

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Mar 10, 2006
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -Thomas Jefferson

It doesn't take half a brain to interpret that.

Which is why 1776 "Part Deux" I feel is imminent. Take a look back on history, the American Revolution happened because the rights of the colonists were being crapped on. And look at America today. Gun Control. Eminent Domain (the government forcing you to sell your land, and while many have agreed its a tolerable thing if for the good of the people like a highway or a park, people are getting ticked off at the government forcing owners of land to sell to corporate entities).

And this is a lot, all it'll take is some sort of catalyst to trigger a civil revolt, after all this, I don't think people will be dissuaded by the charge of 10000 USD and 10 years in prison for starting an insurrection after being treated by dirt. Its taken a lot less to trigger succesful violent revolts.

Anyone remember the Battle of Athens? (No, not the one in Greece, the one in America). This actually happened after the end of WW2. In Athens, Tennesse, political corruption and voter intimidation and ballot stuffing was rampant. Police deputies blocked people from voting and threatened to fire upon them, sometimes beating people to scare them off. People had asked Federal help, but none came. During the year of 1946, GIs there were veterans of WW2 had just returned to their homes, and seeing how they had fought oppression in a foreign country, they sure as hell weren't going to take it in thier own county. The FBI and the Department of Justice had done nothing to stop the election fraud of the brutal treatment of people by Sheriff Pat Mansfield.

The GIs decided to first try to politically challenge Paul Cantrell, who many claim was responsible for Mansfield's acts of brutality. To ensure a fair election, the GIs had decided to take positions as poll watchers to ensure election fraud didn't occur. Mansfield had brought 200 armed deputies with him who then beat up the poll-watchers, shot an African American voter, detained several GIs, and threatened to kill many of the town's citizens.

The Battle of Athens? Mansfield and over a hundred deputies moved into the prison to count the ballots, aware and afraid that they were going to be attacked by "people who had just liberated Europe and the South Pacific from two of the most powerful war machines in human history." A small group of American GIs borrowed the keys to the National and State Guard armories taking 3 M-1 Garands, 5 semi-automatic .45 pistols, and 24 British Lee-Enfields. The GI's and several local citizens attacked the Jail, whose occupants were armed with semi-automatic pistols and a single Thompson SMG. Men on both sides were wounded, but not killed. The occupants tried to wait for aid from the State Guard, but they were never sent, some believe because it would've been pointless as soldiers wouldn't easily fire on their own fellow comrades. The GIs had forced the deputies to surrender after causing them to panic by throwing sticks of dynamite at the jail. Before sunlight, the GIs had cleaned and returned all the firearms that they borrowed to the armory. When it had turned out that many GIs had won the political positions they tried for, they worked to repair the damage done to the jail, and agreed to a $5000 pay cap for newley elected officials. While a major revolution hasn't occured sinec hundreds of years ago in the US, this is perhaps the prelude to something bigger. Its also a symbol of what the 2nd Amendment was for and how guns can help one retain his liberty.

Then again, it might not be a bad thing, I might be able to carry around an AK-47 or that detachable magazine for an SKS and California might not be so much a Socialist Repulik. The 2nd Amendment states that the Right to Bear Arms will NOT BE INFRINGED. So far these magazine capacity limits, these "assault weapon" bans, gun free zones, and gun rationing sure are infrigments on my state's citizens' right to bear arms.
 

{YBBS}Sage

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Apr 15, 2006
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Wow... I'm blown away. You really know your stuff.

The best I could come up with was the suicide bomber who was shot by what was reported in US media as "Israeli Security forces."

The woman who had shot the would-be bomber was a bit surprised to be called "Security Forces." She was just shopping in the grocery store...