Grenade Limit

[CaptRanger]

Well, the prosecution rests their case. I think I made my point and I don't see that there's anything really new either side can bring to the table about this issue. I figure I'll spend my time discussing other things rather than keep whipping a dead horse.

I'll wait and see which side the dev's think won this debate...

 

[stebbs]

If you are only using and looking for other rifles, then you are not fully immersed in the battle, you are only looking for rifles and not watching out for nades coming over the wall or coming unexpectedly from another direction. Being immersed in the battle means watching out for everything that could possibly kill you, not just sitting in a firefight.

im

 

[Oberst Freitag]

The problem is that the players know where the hotspots on a map are with increasing game experience. They will throw their nades in these hotspots without even spotting an enemy just cause they know there might be some enemies. This would rarely happen in a real life scenario.
I suggest to limit the amount of nades for each player to lets say 10 per round. You still start with two nades each respawn but after you have thrown away your 10th nade you have to start without any.
Maybe you may gain some additional nades wor fulfilling objectives for example 1 additional nade for each cap to reflect the HQ's troop support for successfull operations.

Just another crapy idea.

would soldiers not throw grenades into a house before they ente? They most certainly would...they wouldnt know for sure if there were soldiers in the house...or on a certain floor, but they would surely put some nades through the window...same thing with church towers on the western front...they were used by german snipers and artillery spotters, soon, allies would knock out church towers with or without a sniper or spotter in them....its the same thing in the game.,..you know someone uses a certain spot a lot..nade it...the balcony by the tower on Odessa is a prime example...you dont always see guys on it as german from the ground...but put some nades up there and you'll kill a russian 8/10 times

 

[druid]

If you are only using and looking for other rifles, then you are not fully immersed in the battle, you are only looking for rifles and not watching out for nades coming over the wall or coming unexpectedly from another direction. Being immersed in the battle means watching out for everything that could possibly kill you, not just sitting in a firefight.

im

 

[Oberst Freitag]

hmm..thats never happened to me or on any server that i've played on. If you're going to bring that up as your point...then there should be no snipers...because they can easily set up and snipe you as you come out of spawn...or no tanks on CA maps because they can set up outside of a spawn and cut people down

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

The thing that bothers me is the cliche statement of "You are just bitchin' cuzz you got owned". It is just so terribly overused and it is usually an innacurate statement.

I hardly ever get killed with grenades, sure once in a while I do. But I don't cry to mommy when one blows me up. I just think the grenades could have a little bit more random flight path, but the randomness would mostly effect those run and jump hail marry bombs to the endzone. Shorter tosses will never be effected. I think the thing that definantly needs to be changed is the cap zone thing that shows when another team has people in the zone. Just by looking at the map you magically can tell if someone is capping the area. With this info you get your grenade out and go near the cap area and you throw the grenades behind the cover the cappers hide behind and BOOM, no more enemy. It is simple as that and I see it happen all the time. Without the cap zone indicator I think you would see a lot less nade spam.


Also I don't really believe that you actually went outside and found a 1 1/2 pound weight and threw it onto some dinky pillow 40 feet away. 40 feet really isn't that far at all. I know people who can toss a 12 pound weight further than that. I just don't believe that you went outside to do this "experiment" just to make a point on some internet forum...sounds like a waste of time honestly. Maybe if you would record it or make some pictures of you actually doing it then maybe I will believe that you wasted your time.

 

[Sabot]

I think taking nades of sniper and mg would be cool. But not other class's. Just them.

 

[CaptRanger]

The thing that bothers me is the cliche statement of "You are just bitchin' cuzz you got owned". It is just so terribly overused and it is usually an innacurate statement.

I hardly ever get killed with grenades, sure once in a while I do. But I don't cry to mommy when one blows me up. I just think the grenades could have a little bit more random flight path, but the randomness would mostly effect those run and jump hail marry bombs to the endzone. Shorter tosses will never be effected. I think the thing that definantly needs to be changed is the cap zone thing that shows when another team has people in the zone. Just by looking at the map you magically can tell if someone is capping the area. With this info you get your grenade out and go near the cap area and you throw the grenades behind the cover the cappers hide behind and BOOM, no more enemy. It is simple as that and I see it happen all the time. Without the cap zone indicator I think you would see a lot less nade spam.


Also I don't really believe that you actually went outside and found a 1 1/2 pound weight and threw it onto some dinky pillow 40 feet away. 40 feet really isn't that far at all. I know people who can toss a 12 pound weight further than that. I just don't believe that you went outside to do this "experiment" just to make a point on some internet forum...sounds like a waste of time honestly. Maybe if you would record it or make some pictures of you actually doing it then maybe I will believe that you wasted your time.

Well said Strother. I think some people are completely blowing this "random flight path" thing out of proportion. When it was suggested it wasn't ment to nerf nade paths up at short or even medium distances. It's the maximum or close to maximum ranges that should effect the accuracy and flight path of the grenades.

And I 100% support taking out the stupid cap zone indicator. I use it a lot right now, but there's always a little piece of me that feels guilty about it

It always stuck out as a weird thing to be in this game... wonder why the dev's put it in...

 

[REZ]

The thing that bothers me is the cliche statement of "You are just bitchin' cuzz you got owned". It is just so terribly overused and it is usually an innacurate statement.

No man, I never used a statement like that. My comments toward skill have to do with an awareness you get after playing this game for a long time. I remember the frustration I felt when I was a beginner and a nade came sailing out of nowhere at me. It would burn me up. But since then I've played hundreds and hundreds of matches, and my ability to accurately throw and avoid nades, as well as my surroundings awareness has grown tremendously.

There came a point where I flipped the switch in my mind and said to myself, I cant let those phantom nades bother me so much, cause it's gonna happen alot. I better learn to be more aware and deal with the situation.

Also I don't really believe that you actually went outside and found a 1 1/2 pound weight and threw it onto some dinky pillow 40 feet away. 40 feet really isn't that far at all. I know people who can toss a 12 pound weight further than that.

The test wasnt to show how far they could be thrown, it was to show you could accurately hit the same spot from 40 feet. CaptRangers test. I actually did step out onto my patio and throw a dumbell weight at a throw pillow, and its very easy at that distance to hit it everytime. I would go so far as to say you could land it at a 100 feet with your target in the kill zone every single time. The test was about accuracy at distance, and I dont see what would make a nade drift or why it needs to be added. The test took me all of what, 5-6 minutes... while drinkin a brew. No time wasted to prove a point, at least to myself.

First this started out as lets reduce the nades cause people dont use them right, they throw them where they 'think' people will be (like thats a bad thing). Then it turned to lets add random flight paths. I dont see what having random flight paths at extreme distances only is going to change... you're still on the **** end of the stick, and its still gonna come your way.. soo, i dont get why they should mysteriously start drifting. Unless you dont want to be hit behind cover while still in range of a thrown nade.. so you propose 'random, random flight paths'... oookay, hmm.

They WERE spammed but not at long ranges. They would be thrown at entrenched targets or to clear areas at fairly short ranges, where they were most effective

How do you know they werent thrown by the dozen at targets a hundred feet out? Really, how do you know that. And once a nade gets to its destination... aside from obvious objects between you and the nade ...how exactly does it become less effective?

You see guys, this topic is not a game breaking issue.... its your preferences.. it's how you want the game to play. Thus, Devs, I urge you to focus on content and bugs, real issues... leave the nade loadout to the mapper and/or server owner if he wants to run a mutator, and dont make anymore changes to the nades, please.


(oh, as a side note, I completely agree on the 'people in cap zone bar' thing... it's too much info that a soldier wouldnt otherwise know, and makes the game easier)

 

[kempe]

i think their fine,
"if it aint broke, dont fix it"
even the snipers and mgers in RL carried grenades often when there were enough supplies. i mean, if u got a bunch of enemy assulting you MG nest youd wanna have a few nades wouldnt u?

i know these days machine gunners definetly carry grenades. but yeah, dont think snipers do...

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

you could land it at a 100 feet with your target in the kill zone

Yeah you could land it within a zone pretty easy, but throwing them through windows, doorways, and tight spots at LONG range is very improbable. We don't have a lot of windows or tight spots like that right now but with new maps and custom maps there will be plenty of opporunties for people to jump throw their grenades and put them square in a window easy peasy as if their arm was a grenade launcher. You can not deny that the further you throw an object (grenades, baseball, footballs) the less likely it will hit exactly where you want it. This should be put into the game, but only at very long ranges and it wouldn't effect anything really unless someone was trying to thread the needle so to speak and the random path just happens to make him miss.

Me: The thing that bothers me is the cliche statement of "You are just bitchin' cuzz you got owned".

Rez: No man, I never used a statement like that.

One of Rez's earlier posts: These nade nerfing arguments are made by people who cant deal with dying from a grenade.

Seems to me that you did make a statement like that.

 

[REZ]

lol, those sound nothing alike, because the way you worded it... it sounds like some disillusioned twenty-something whos watched one too many BOOMHEADSHOT videos made that comment....




Then can you tell me why people would want to change the nades at all then? If they didnt have a problem with the accuracy or how people used them..? We have weak nades now in my opinion because alot of people lobbied and had it changed, we have super short fuses now because people bitched. Thats why I make my opinion known this time, because the nades will be worthless here pretty soon, and we will be left with smgs ruling anything close to a short/medium-range situation. We wont be able to use nades to effectively kill enemies behind cover past medium distance, whatever that is.

No changes are needed. The absence of a crosshair will create enough variation on your throws at long distances. You are, in effect, guessing where its going. Theres no need for some sort of after-release drift... seriously, they dont drift on their own, and I dont think Boris is putting heavy spin on them... trying to heave a curveball up to Fritz.

 

[Daemion]

would soldiers not throw grenades into a house before they ente? They most certainly would...they wouldnt know for sure if there were soldiers in the house...or on a certain floor, but they would surely put some nades through the window...same thing with church towers on the western front...they were used by german snipers and artillery spotters, soon, allies would knock out church towers with or without a sniper or spotter in them....its the same thing in the game.,..you know someone uses a certain spot a lot..nade it...the balcony by the tower on Odessa is a prime example...you dont always see guys on it as german from the ground...but put some nades up there and you'll kill a russian 8/10 times

You just do so cause you know thats a hotspot in Odesse. You wouldn't throw a nade in every open door cause there might be an enemy.

 

[stebbs]

You just do so cause you know thats a hotspot in Odesse.[quote/]

so what's wrong with that, if the enemy fails to change their tactics and keeps going to the same area, you cover that area by any means possible, right?

Certain areas are just more prone to having nades thrown in them, so either avoid those areas, or just know a nade is on its way.

Why do we really need to change things anyway? Is it a game bug, or just a personal preference of how someone should use their nades?

Through this whole thread i have yet to see a complaint based on playability. It just focuses on what people don't like, instead of actual problems.

C'mon, we're not children here (mostly), we should all be able to deal with the game as it is, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it, as another post mentioned.

 

[[TW]DrGuppy]

My problems with grenades:

You can throw them while jumping without any loss of accuracy.
You can pull out a grenade in about one second.
You do not suffer any throw accuracy penalty when strafe-sprinting back and forth.

 

[stebbs]

that sounds more like engine limitations than a game problem. The better the engines get, the more we will see the realism things like you mentioned disappear.

But it is still a game, you know? There will always be things that people may consider unrealistic in one way or another, so let's just all play the game and have fun, and deal with the game as it is.