Great new tank map!

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Hyperion2010

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
2,560
1
0
32
NC

Do I have to say anything else ??? ;)

I remember someone posting a link to photos of the area in the Ukraine, but I can't find it at the moment.

I think the central hills are there for two reasons. First, cut down the driving time that was the biggest dislike of Orel.
Second, To make the map playable on the average PC. And there was one release of Orel that really, really suffered from low FPS. If you played it, you'll remember it clearly. I can't of any game using this graphics engine that is giving use just large viewing areas.

P.S. Sry for pinching the sig.
Haha, thats ok :D


Btw, to all those who complain about the hills:

They are your friends, very very dear friends. There was a unspeakable time when hills did not exist. Lets just say that it wasnt pretty >_<
 

Karabiner98k

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 20, 2007
350
17
0
United Kingdom
Can't we have hills that we can go up to, and have BSP blocks and antiportals inside each one? Like in SmolenskStalemate on the ridge, there's BSP to occlude players and antiportals for meshes etc. Also, a few tree facades with the terrain cut out inside to reduce rendering help, and maybe antiportals and BSP blocks could be put in the middle of the "tree islands" as well?
 

K Rohm

FNG / Fresh Meat
I was really looking forward to having... blah blah blah... I cant stand the haul down invincable turret stuff. it just takes away from realism so much. when the gun was really one of the weakest points on a tank but in the game its indestructable. ... blah blah blah.

I read this and had to re-read it to make sure of what you were saying: Are you saying that 'hull down' tactics for tanks (in order to make them more survivable) takes *away* from realism? Are you saying that the gun mantlet is one of the *weakest* points on a WW2 tank? Please tell me you had an entirely diffrent meaning than what I read this as saying, because I will have to strongly argue both points.

'Hull down' is a perfectly valid armor tactic- and a preferred one, in many cases- *because* it provides a tank with a near-perfect firing position: if you can't hit the tank in a vulnerable spot, you can't kill it! With only the turret exposed, naturally the gun mantlet is the most prominent feature presented to the enemy, and as such is armored to the nth degreee on most tanks, even those of WW2 vintage. Note the huge slab of mantlet armor on the Tiger 1 and the equally thick, but curved, mantlet found on the Panther- note also the changes that the T-34 series went through in order to find a suvivable gun mount- as the war progressed, so did the frontal armor of their turrets as well as that of the gun mantlet.

Again, if I have mis-read your meaning you may certainly disregard all of the above- OTOH if you stand by what I *think* you mean I'd like an expanded explanation of how you arived at your conclusions.

KR
 

Helmchen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 20, 2007
85
1
0
35
Heidelberg, Baden, Germany
Well I actually like the map!
Those small hills are nice especially if you're in one of the smaller tanks. And who says all the fighting is close to those hills? Actually I scored most of my kills just by outflanking the enemy and by using the full breadth of the map. That way I managed to score kills even in a Panzer III while I didn't need to change the range of my sight as most of the enemy tankers sticked close together and stayed near the hills.

Actually the maps is what it is meant to be a large range tank map with instant action due those moving spawns and the map realy can be large range. I had fights at about 1.4km range and more.

Those small hills and creeks are there for one reason, to give the russians a chance against the tiger at long range. Hell without them a good tiger crew would own the map. And if you're a skilled gunner it's possible to hit enemy tanks even if they're behind cover so there's nothing bad about them. And I don't think that the average tundra is just plain as a desk. There must be some small bumps and creeks.

Furthermore the moving spawn points are ingenious as most players used to ***** about the time they needed to get to battle on maps like BDJ or Orel. I remember my Orel sessions which were all about starting the tank, going afk for about 3-4 minutes comming back, crossing the river and then searching for an enemy.

The layout of the map might look akward but I'm sure it's that way for one reason FPS!

So yeah I like the new map. For me it definetly doesn't feel like BDJ or Orel as gunning is way more easy on those maps compared to those 1.4km shootouts.

But opinions are like assholes everybody got one.

By the way those hills are blocked on purpose as they aren't as solid as they look like ;) and tanks up there realy spoil the map.
 

Captain Obvious

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 4, 2007
191
6
0
USA
It feels so contrived. It's nothing like a real historical tank battlefield. Two giant rolling bowls split by twisty hills full of spawn trails? Yeah that sure feels natural.

There was not one moment during gameplay where I thought, yeah this is just like the Ukraine!

Of all the armor maps, this one is the worst. You feel like you're in a giant arena. And from yesterday's gameplay, the most prevalent tactic was to edge up one of the sides - boooooooooooooooooring!!!

Where's the towns, the forests, the ANYTHING?

Man what a disappointment.

I am a dedicated tanker, I bought RO because of the tank combat.. but I have to agree with this post.

The new tank map is a big dissapointment. When I first looked at the overhead map, it did look like an arena, as mentioned here before. It felt like an arcade game.

Also, my first spawn in the map (as a Russian) was right behind a group of Axis tankers, we picked off some 6 or 7 German tanks before they even knew what hit them. This problem should've been fixed in the Beta testing stage cause it's not fair to work hard for your ground only to have the enemy spawn right next to you.

I want to see a tank map based on accurate Russian countryside terrain, the landscape in this map seemed extremely pretentious. I can't wait for Shurek's Voronezh map to be complete, I think he nailed the Russian landscapes perfectly.

Debrecen is still by far the best tank map, I'll try this new tank map some more times and maybe it'll grow on me, but it looks like I won't be playing it much.
 

Helmchen

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 20, 2007
85
1
0
35
Heidelberg, Baden, Germany
Actually you don't feel as if you're in a bowl. Of course if you check the map you get that feeling but imho as long as you're driving/fighting it feels pretty plain like. The hills in the middle are a bit disturbing but if they're needed for the performance I'm more then happy to have them there - and they're needed.

The rest looks great. The planes in the sky, the burning city on the horizon. and finally the burning plane which doesn't make it home after bombing the city.

Debrecen doesn't look all that realistic either I mean a Big bowl like hill with a village right in the center of it and just one farm somwhere far off? For sure nothing you would encounter in reality. But still I like that map as it's a great fun.

Same for the new one. Give the map a few more tries it aint all that bad if you can ignore the arena like buildup. Hell if it wasn't necessary I'm sure TW wouldn't have done it that way.
 

Dheepan

FNG / Fresh Meat
I read this and had to re-read it to make sure of what you were saying: Are you saying that 'hull down' tactics for tanks (in order to make them more survivable) takes *away* from realism? Are you saying that the gun mantlet is one of the *weakest* points on a WW2 tank? Please tell me you had an entirely diffrent meaning than what I read this as saying, because I will have to strongly argue both points.

'Hull down' is a perfectly valid armor tactic- and a preferred one, in many cases- *because* it provides a tank with a near-perfect firing position: if you can't hit the tank in a vulnerable spot, you can't kill it! With only the turret exposed, naturally the gun mantlet is the most prominent feature presented to the enemy, and as such is armored to the nth degreee on most tanks, even those of WW2 vintage. Note the huge slab of mantlet armor on the Tiger 1 and the equally thick, but curved, mantlet found on the Panther- note also the changes that the T-34 series went through in order to find a suvivable gun mount- as the war progressed, so did the frontal armor of their turrets as well as that of the gun mantlet.

Again, if I have mis-read your meaning you may certainly disregard all of the above- OTOH if you stand by what I *think* you mean I'd like an expanded explanation of how you arived at your conclusions.

KR

In RO if the hull of a tank is angled everything about that tank gets an angling bonus, even the turret. Which doesn't make sense. Rendering them impenetrable.

For example the turret of the panther can be penetrated by a t34/85 at ranges around 500 meters or less. In game it is totally impossible to penetrate the turret.
 

merder

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2006
72
0
0
California
The map actually makes for some very fun tanking IMO. The only thing that makes it suck is the size of the cap zones. With a group of 4 other German tanks we popped out from our spawn into the corner of one of the capzones, stayed there waiting 5 minutes for the enemy to die or find us, and ended up capping the objective.

The arrangement of the map gives me the impression of a Starcraft defense-style UMS map with unnaturally neat sections, making for some stale maneuvering. I'm sure if I played this map several times over the course of a few days I'd become bored by the tempo of it. The objectives need to be more intelligently designed to have some sort of central object to them, not just completely arbitrary 'fields' that need to be captured. I understand that's in the nature of the map, but the square borders feel unrealistic. Otherwise it's incredibly fun if you're playing with a competent crewmember or if you have any idea what you're doing solo.

Also, the farthest I ever had to adjust my sights in two hours of playing was to 800m in a PzIII
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
0
Nargothrond
I think it's a great proof of concept, and a fun map. It's very polished, unlike Orel (which is still beta AFAIK). I agree that from overhead, it looks very contrived, but I don't really get that feeling too much in tank.

Maybe if the hills in the middle looked more random, or there was some more height variation. I don't know.

It's a fun map, but it feels like it could get old sooner than later.


I for one love the rolling hills. I love setting up hull or turret down position. Using binoculars to spot your hits, you can practically do some indirect fire on hull down opponents.

Plus it's the only way to flank a Tiger.

So far, I've made one 1200m kill, and a couple of 1000m kills. Took a lot of ranging shots though.
 

Piron

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
229
0
0
Belgium
Please give me a halftrack and some panzerfausts! It would be great to cooperate with 4-5 infantry and start hunting down tanks on foot.
 

SchutzeSepp

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 23, 2006
1,540
8
0
35
even if at first view the map feels like an arena, when i stopped thinking of that it became actually a fun map.
and in 20 minutes of playing it, i have been in more"wow, this is how it was like back then" situations, than in any other tank map so far.
because you are oftenly fighting with a group of tanks like a platoon, and you are fighting at long range. that is something other tank maps don't have unfortunately.
visually it's verry nice, but you can almost always see the limits of the map and you feel boxed in.
before this map, i found it hard to believe how it was possible to survive many tank combats in real life. because up to now you would never survive long on the battlefield in a tank. but on this map i survived an entire round with my precious STUG, taking out numerous russian tanks. the few russians that shot back at me, always missed and never had the time to adjust their range. and the others seem to ignore STUG's when turret tanks are close to you.
BIG MISTAKE!
 

Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
605
0
0
but on this map i survived an entire round with my precious STUG, taking out numerous russian tanks. the few russians that shot back at me, always missed and never had the time to adjust their range. and the others seem to ignore STUG's when turret tanks are close to you.
BIG MISTAKE!
I was in a StuG last night, and I was down to 8 HE shells when I reloaded, and was finally killed when I was down to 4 AP shells of my second load.:D
 

Monkwarrior

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,144
2
0
Please give me a halftrack and some panzerfausts! It would be great to cooperate with 4-5 infantry and start hunting down tanks on foot.

I'm glad no infantry is allowed, it kills what tankwarfare is all about IMO.

Monk.
 

Basil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 7, 2007
171
0
0
Finland
I discovered one stupid feature in this map. On several occation there were bunch of German tanks in the far north end of the map shooting russians in the back when the fighting was happening in the middle or south. Flanking is of course valid tactic but in this case it is not realistic at all. Or do you think it happened a lot that enemy tankers swooped through to the far end of the battlefield after destroying the enemy and were able to shoot the back side of enemy reinforcements that mysterically materialized behind them? IMO far ends of the map should be protected with minefield from the enemy before they become captureable to prevent such stupid tactics.
 

PUTZ

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,564
634
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Pay no attention to them. Stay in the valleys and position yourself so they can't hit you. When that cap zone becomes active, move up. There's little incentive to drive 10 minutes to kill someone who has almost no impact on the battle-at-hand.
 

Sabu

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 12, 2006
65
0
0
Can't we have hills that we can go up to, and have BSP blocks and antiportals inside each one? Like in SmolenskStalemate on the ridge, there's BSP to occlude players and antiportals for meshes etc. Also, a few tree facades with the terrain cut out inside to reduce rendering help, and maybe antiportals and BSP blocks could be put in the middle of the "tree islands" as well?


The problem is that if the hills were not mined or blocked off people would be fighting over the hills and those on the hills will dominate those in the real gameplay space on the open fields. This is not the gameplay we wanted. We found this out very early in testing of this map it just was not fun when people were on the hills.

As for All of the optimization suggestions you are talking about here (the bsp and antiportals and vised out terrain) are all things I did with this map I have been working with Unreal professionally for over 5 years now and these are some of the basic things you do for optimization. So rest assured I have a very good idea what I am doing.

Sabu
 

Darkseed

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2005
458
82
0
Sweden
I'm a big tank nut, I hardly ever play infantry anymore and I'm sorry to say I'm really disappointed in this new map. The long viewdistance and good graphics of the map despite this is just wasted with a map layout that is not only extremely unrealistic, but also downright silly. It just feels like deathmatch with tanks.

Actually being able to spawn BEHIND the enemy is a huge nono in my book. You should have to work in order to flank the enemy, not conveniently spawn behind them and shoot them all to hell before they even knew what happened.

I'll stick to debrecen.