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Do I smell something burning?

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#61
Entangler said:
I'm all for each perk and equipment combination having strengths and weaknesses, but I firmly believe that skill should be able to partially alleviate those weaknesses (as well as being required to fully realise the strengths).

The Flesh Pound is the perfect example of hard counters gone wrong: they're a joke if you use their weaknesses against them, and a nightmare otherwise. Or, to put it another way, there are a select few ways to deal with them that are a lot easier and more effective than they should be, whereas every other method is terrible. The overdose of hard counter balancing (mostly in the form of enormous damage modifiers in either direction) means that there is nothing in between.
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I agree, but what Monolithos was referring to seemed like an "all-or-nothing" scenario. While I don't believe Commando needs a "boost" or Firebug needs to be able to take on Scrakes and FPs solo, I do agree that the few ways to effectively take down the two specimens that are supposed to be the big bad guys are too easy/effective.
 
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#62
Deafmute said:
Balancing != making every class able to kite/handle every specimen on their own.
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I agree.

Balance is to make sure ALL classes have vulnerabilities and zeds they struggle to handle on their own so they are more or less forced into co-op.

OR

Make sure ALL classes have tools to deal with all zeds so they don't depend on others.

I'm a level 6 Commando and I wouldn't want to be able to handle FPs by myself. If every class could do this it would cease to be a co-op game and more of a "run around separately killing stuff" game. That is not the nature of KF.
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I do agree with you.

However, currently there are a few classes that CAN handle all zeds on their own. A few classes that does not have any apparent weaknesses (such as Sharpshooter).

Either give them weaknesses so they can not solo all zeds on their own (yes please) or give the rest tools to deal with all zeds in the game as well (the community as a whole tend to reject nerfs and praise buffs)

I am sure the game as a whole would be better of if for example Sharpshooters didn't have access to M14EBR and that crossbow bolts didn't do this insane amount of damage to fleshpounds - before patch you needed two head shots and then some with a rank 5 sharpshooter to bring down a six player hard (or was it suicidal, don't remember right now) fleshpound (one to enrage them and one right before they start to charge) and about 5-6 bolts with a non-sharpshooter, after patch you need like one or two bolts as a non-sharpshooter to bring down a 6 player hard fleshpound with a crossbow (indirectly making all classes that have a 4kg perk weapon - such as demolitions using M79, Berserkers using Katana, Medics using MediSMG as well as support specs with shotgun, Katana and Crossbow - viable against all zeds in the game).

Before patch sharpshooter would shift between 9mm (for clots, bloats, stalkers and gorefasts) to deagle(s) for crawlers, stalkers, sirens and to panic stun gorefasts and scrakes - into crossbow to kill scrakes and fleshpounds (and lined up lesser zombies on open maps like london and farm). Running low on ammo in all three weapons at later levels. Struggle with swarms of zeds at close range as you sometimes don't really have time to head shot them all. Well balanced.

After patch i just run around with EBR killing everything, including FPs and Scrakes. Lots of ammo to spare. Ezmode, yes. Powerful, yes. Boring, yes. Balanced, no - would be if firebugs and commando perks could do it though.
 
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#63
so a new firebug-only skin for all current level7 firebugs? (and yes 7 as in if a 7 existed....)

f4-flame_large.jpg
 
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#65
Monolithos said:
What firebug need to be viable on their own (it is already one of the best team perks) is a 4kg piece of equipment to deal with fleshpounds and scrakes (that or make flamethrower weight 4kg so they can equip a 10kg crossbow for later waves).
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Undedd Jester said:
True the Firebug can't take on a Scrake or a Fleshpound singlehanded, and thats the way the game should be. If people can't see that they need to go back to their level 6 M14 Sharpshooter normal games, cause thats pretty much what they are trying to turn the game into.
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A slightly blunt and aggressive post on my behalf I feel, but I think it sums up adequently my opinion of that sentence.

I think if a Firebug could solo a fleshpound or a 6 man scrake I would just retire from Killing Floor. A game isn't rewarding if people can just steam roll over everything, which is why the Sharpshooter sucks ring. I've completed the game solo suicidal as a Firebug a couple of times, and its a truly rewarding feeling having actually beaten the game with the class, because even in solo things like Fleshpounds cause such a major issue.

I've done the same with a Support Specialist and felt like, yeah whatever...

I did question why Tier 3 weapons were needed when they came out, but I like their addition into the game for more strategical loadouts... however the M14 and Scar are too powerful for the ammo they have, so therefore I never play Sharpshooter and rarely play Commando.

The AA12 at least can't single handedly hold back the entire wave before it runs out of ammo. Although if I'm honest I do think the Support should be slowed down incrementaly to how much weight he is carrying, normal walking speed on 24Kgs compared to everyone else on 15 doesn't really make sense, and makes the Support overpowered in his own right. Would consider making a thread about that if it wasn't such a minor point.
 
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