Dismemberment Is A Bit Silly

[Oook!]

Depends if the engine can accurately model both air displacement and shrapnel, which seems unlikely.

 

[aop]

Actually he has that completely backwards. The German grenade is an offensive grenade and kills purely by over pressure. You are far less likely to see ANY blood with a German grenade than with a Russian one. The Russian one is a DEFENSIVE grenade. It has much more explosive in it AND shrapnel. It's blast radius is larger, and the radius that shrapnel can kill at is up to 200m. I know that sounds nuts, but the idea of when the grenades are used is different.

The German grenade is used when you are running up to that trench and a Russian is in it waiting for you. You want the grenade to kill him, but leave you untouched. The Russian grenade is used when you are in the trench and a German is running at you. Because YOU have cover, you want the grenade to kill as many people as possible as far away as possible.

So the German grenade has no shrapnel, and the blast effect is limited. If you are in that foxhole with it, you may be dismembered. If you are not, you may not even get scratched - the over pressure will not be enough to kill. The German grenade is essentially a big flash bang. It kills by overpressure, but it is mostly about disorientation. He may be deaf and blind after the grenade explodes, but not dead. But because you were using it while you attacked him, that is all you need. It gives you the time to cover those last few metres and kill him.

This is also why the German grenade works better in confined spaces rather than out in the open. The smaller space allows the pressure to get much higher and more damage can be caused.

It's also why the Germans used a stick design. You need to be able to throw it more accurately and further because it has to be close to the enemy to kill them. The Russian grenade is about being able to carry a lot of them, and because they have such a large effective radius, you don't need to be as accurate or get them as far. You just need to remember to take cover first, because you can not throw the grenade as far as the grenade can throw shrapnel.

I don't think this has been accurately modelled in RO2 for balance reasons. Maybe I'm wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any difference between them in-game, anyway.

Nope, the Soviet F1 Grenade had 60g TNT filler while German Model 24 grenade had around 165g of TNT.

You should also remember that not all shrapnell originates from the explosive device, I'm pretty sure 165g TNT charge is enough to make some crap (small stones, pieces of wood, concrete, glass etc) around it fly at rather high velocities.

 

[Krobar]

Depends if the engine can accurately model both air displacement and shrapnel, which seems unlikely.

UE3 (RO2's game engine) Was designed for Gears of War 3. A game where details will never matter. This is why UE3 had to be HEAVILY modded by TW which still probably isn't enough for all the details.

 

[jolorulz]

The protected area has this silly effect too. After staying for like 5 seconds in the protected area, a soldier will just turn into mush, without explosive effects or anything... more like magic Harry Pothead style...

 

[Filo90]

I think that explosion effects on bodies could be tuned adding more bloody textures on soldiers, as ii's now limbs fly waway but body remains clean

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

I think that explosion effects on bodies could be tuned adding more bloody textures on soldiers, as ii's now limbs fly waway but body remains clean

This!

I miss the shrapnel ridden corpses from RO1.

Depends if the engine can accurately model both air displacement and shrapnel, which seems unlikely.

It could be something as simple as, if a stick grenade explodes indoors than increase kill radius slightly. This may or may not be feasible given if there is a way for the game to tell the difference between indoors/open area in regards to grenades. The shrapnel wouldn't be as hard, I dont think. The most difficult part about it would be the added calculations needed for randomly generated shrapnel ballistics. Games don't need to exactly model phyics events, so much as approximate them with scripted variables (in most cases).

 

[Landrik]

My most shocking experience with explosive force was playing as a Russian on Commissar's House. Ran across an open area to get to the park and capture it. Got caught by a few Mkb bullets (Damn you!) and started to patch up. I look up ahead of me and immediately a Pz. IV throws a HE right on me. Very messy and very scary.

 

[[SM]Fluttershy]

My most shocking experience with explosive force was playing as a Russian on Commissar's House. Ran across an open area to get to the park and capture it. Got caught by a few Mkb bullets (Damn you!) and started to patch up. I look up ahead of me and immediately a Pz. IV throws a HE right on me. Very messy and very scary.

Indeed, that must've been quite the experience. I've been lucky in my dealings with tanks thus far (primarily death from them is caused by their LMGs), though my most explosive death was when some Russian tossed a prepped Satchel over a wall right on top of myself. I swear some parts of my rag doll must've hit the skybox.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Actually he has that completely backwards. The German grenade is an offensive grenade and kills purely by over pressure. You are far less likely to see ANY blood with a German grenade than with a Russian one. The Russian one is a DEFENSIVE grenade. It has much more explosive in it AND shrapnel. It's blast radius is larger, and the radius that shrapnel can kill at is up to 200m. I know that sounds nuts, but the idea of when the grenades are used is different.

Actually the German M24 stick grenade holds a good deal more explosives than the Russian F1 grenade (198 gram vs 60 gram), and it should as-well seeing as offensive grenades usually do.

The F1 grenade is termed a defensive grenade because of its' high fragmentation effect, where'as the German grenade is termed an offensive grenade because of its' high concussive effect but little shrapnel and long throw distance.

The German stick grenade could however quickly & effortlessly be turned into a defensive type fragmentation grenade by simply adding a fragmentation sleeve as seen below:

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

Well then, how about hand-grenade upgrades?

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

There is a noticeable difference in throwing distance between the grenade designs that is reflected in-game.

Well, yes, I did notice that. I'm more talking about the detonation effects.

But the effectiveness of each grenade is about the same. What would be cool, is if shrapnel was actually built into the Russian nade. It might cause considerable hiccuping when the server has to calculate the ballistics for each fragment (multiply that by the number of grenades that go off any given minute in an RO match), but damn it would be cool.

Yeah! When the hardware is good enough, they should be modelling pressure waves too. A shockwave can propagate quiet long distances if it is channelled. So on some of those tunnel type place for example, if an arty shell landed in the mouth, the shockwave would travel a lot further down the tunnel than in the open.

Stuff like that would be so awesome to see in a game, but I'm guessing we won't be seeing it for a few years, at least.

So much of physical reality is still left out of even the most realistic games. Take the sound barrier. It doesn't seem to exist in most games. If something is far away, you hear it quieter, but not delayed. This is why gun shots are never going to sound right until they can do this sort of stuff. They have to be able to simulate the shockwave coming off the bullet, and its reflection off the environment, before they will be able to accurately simulate the sound of live gunfire.

When that day comes, I will be rapt.

 

[Mangley]

It shouldn't be too hard to disable certain types of dismemberment for certain instances.

Grenades should only take off limbs if it is right next to them, so literally if you step on a grenade it should blow your leg off, because it genuinely would in real life if it is that close.

I think explosions should have to be right up to someones head to blow it off. Since it's a little silly seeing a mr. torso when a mortar shell landed a few feet behind him.

Nothing should be changed about AP tank rounds and Anti-tank rifles dismembering I love how brutal they are.

 

[KarmakazeNZ]

Actually the German M24 stick grenade holds a good deal more explosives than the Russian F1 grenade (198 gram vs 60 gram), and it should as-well seeing as offensive grenades usually do.

I stand corrected. I must have misunderstood something I read, but I believed the charge in a defensive grenade would be larger.

The F1 grenade is termed a defensive grenade because of its' high fragmentation effect, where'as the German grenade is termed an offensive grenade because of its' high concussive effect but little shrapnel and long throw distance.

The thing is, the concussive effect of the defensive grenade isn't gone. It's just that it only kills in close, just like the defensive grenade. But the offensive grenade also has shrapnel that goes a lot further before it loses the ability to kill. It's possible they are treating them both as offensive grenades, but then it seems they are far too weak.

The Soviets considered the F1 to have an effective kill radius of up to 30m, but the shrapnel could kill up to 200m. The ones in game seem to be nothing like that.

So it seems to me they are both acting like defensive grenades, which means the Russian grenade has been gimped. You can't throw it as far, but it isn't more powerful either.

Then again it's hard to tell in-game. If you're trying to grenade someone, you usually aren't hanging around to watch the effects. They just don't quite feel poweful enough. Maybe if I had been hit by my own shrapnel a time or two, I would have a different opinion.

 

[dsi1]

Depends if the engine can accurately model both air displacement and shrapnel, which seems unlikely.

A CSS mod has done this, it's more likely than you think.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

Then again it's hard to tell in-game. If you're trying to grenade someone, you usually aren't hanging around to watch the effects. They just don't quite feel poweful enough. Maybe if I had been hit by my own shrapnel a time or two, I would have a different opinion.

Yeah I can stand about 3 meters away from my own grenade and live most of the time.

 

[>F|R< Sarcinelli]

Yeah I can stand about 3 meters away from my own grenade and live most of the time.

This. Playing as russian in Grain Elevator I was in the top of the white tower (above B objective) and tried to throw a granade through the window, it bounced back and fell on the floor. I ran to the other side of the little room, just about 3m from the nade and it didn't even wound me!

 

[Josef Nader]

Then again it's hard to tell in-game. If you're trying to grenade someone, you usually aren't hanging around to watch the effects. They just don't quite feel poweful enough. Maybe if I had been hit by my own shrapnel a time or two, I would have a different opinion.

Yeah, I was just in clan training and we had someone drop a grenade directly opposite a low wall. We all dropped prone (the wall was barely high enough to cover us prone) and the grenade barely even affected us.

 

[Nipper]

Have you ever blown yourself up with a grenade? I't is totally cool., I do it all the time.

 

[Fiennes]

DH had mine fields that worked pretty well with skull signs letting you know they were there. In RO2, you don't even know you're going into a restricted area. I've gone a couple of places that I was sure was OK, only to get blown to hell - down by the train tracks in Grain Elevator if I recall was the one place that seemed wierd.

I think the reason there are no minefields is that the restricted areas are not baked in to the map due to the fact that that they can move based on what territory objectives are being held by either team.

That said, it would make sense to give *some* kind of visual clue and/or timer before being insta-gibbed as though you'd sealed your bum up and eaten 200 cans of baked beans.

 

[Citzen_Snips]

would you rather have invisible walls?

yes!