Can the next RO be modern?

[andyana]

There was a board game back in the late 80s called the Next War which dealt with a sudden soviet attack across the fulda gap in Germany. I always thought this would make a great RO style FPS, weaponry and technology you never see in other FPS as it's too out of date to be modern but as this conflict never happened (just!) it never appears in any historical games.

I love the idea of a 1980s war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact (there are some great RTS games out there, like the Wargame series or World in Conflict) but the only FPS is the golden oldie Operation Flashpoint. I've always hoped that the ARMA series would go back and do the cold war, but they've faffed about with this modern/futuristic game.

 

[Chancer]

Korea for three reasons:

1. WWII weaponry with a few new bonus items like the SKS, M-14, M20 Super Bazooka, etc.
2. Never been done but TWI could make it work.
3. Tons and tons of great game-potential battles between many UN/Communist Bloc nations.

(had a massive supporting post full of pics and battle names/desciptions and such - took almost an hour to research and craft... but lost it all to automatic log-out without notification)

Hugely agree. You have the essence of what I wanted to post here so kudos for putting in the time on a lost post.

Great potential for a game as it has been hardly covered at all.

It could even inspire some people to learn about a largely forgotten war (at least in the West) that over 60 years later is still an international concern (tecnically it still is on)...

 

[Mazryonh]

Will TWI ever do a modern gameplay setting? You guys could easily crush every competitor on PC. Even though COD4 was a pretty arcadish game I miss the theme it had, and I think TWI could do a better job bigtime. I just love the idea of pot shotting ak 47's down alleyways in Baghdad with that realistic pace RO always delivers.

"Crush every competitor on PC"? The PC FPS market isn't very large compared to the console FPS market, and is currently dominated either by Valve titles (those being Team Fortress 2 and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive) or free-to-play/pay-to-win titles. Realistic FPS games aren't anywhere near as popular as they need to be to let your hypothetical title "crush" the rest of the competition, sadly, so if your name isn't Valve, developers are pretty much forced to fight for scraps of the audience to stay alive and in business.

I personally think we oughta leave that to these guys.

http://www.indiedb.com/games/project-reality-2

Besides, shouldn't we be focusing on Red Orchestra 2 and improving that game?

Not everyone loves Project Reality and given the size of the maps and lack of a time limit, matches often take a very long time. The RO series is, for better or worse, more action-packed most of the time. And yes, many users here on this forum are still miffed that TWI still hasn't released the promised additional vehicles for HoS.

HECK NO, no modern setting. I've had enough of all the full auto weapons and now a game with FULL of full auto weapons? heck no. With TWI suppression system, which basically if you are being shot at with a full auto weapon, you won't hit that person. As simple as that. It will basically be whoever shoots and spams bullets at them first, gets the kill.

Real life firefights also work on the principle "find, fix (suppress), flank, and finish," so yes, suppressive fire plays a big role in reality as well. But it's not like you don't experience "full-auto madness" in HoS either. It's not difficult for either side in that game to get a bunch of GPMGs or SMGs to cover an area, and both can pour on the rounds fairly well (the latter will work given both the relatively short draw distance and thus engagement ranges in this game, unlike real life). Players already know how to adapt to those situations in this game given experience.

they will probably try and crack the chinese market through steam box now that consoles are allowed to be sold there.

A Korean War RO game featuring the Chinese forces would be a great way to entice them to try the game out. In reality, there's still a lot of nationalist animousity between China and Korea or America, so giving them a virtual outlet to vent that kind of sentiment could bring more customers into the fold.

I'm not an expert, but I guess Korea could work and be a breath of fresh air. People like to mention that blank era is done to death, but I think we're doomed to that considering we barely have 100 years of repeating rifles/machine guns under our belt.

Korea for three reasons:

1. WWII weaponry with a few new bonus items like the SKS, M-14, M20 Super Bazooka, etc.
2. Never been done but TWI could make it work.
3. Tons and tons of great game-potential battles between many UN/Communist Bloc nations.

(had a massive supporting post full of pics and battle names/desciptions and such - took almost an hour to research and craft... but lost it all to automatic log-out without notification)

Wow, I hope you do eventually find the time to rewrite that material and post it up to the forum eventually (save it to a word-processing program so you don't lose it if you are automatically logged out). Frankly, you should have done so for the Korean War thread I started a while back. The title I proposed for such an RO installment was "Red Orchestra 3: Bloody 38th."

And then getting back up and shooting you in the face while laughing because he has modern age body armour.

Realistic modern body armour hasn't been implemented to my knowledge in PC FPSes yet. Real body armour rated for rifle rounds can withstand quite a few hits before failing, which means that if you need to stop someone in body armour without AP rounds you have to aim for unprotected or less-protected areas. Body armour even in realistic FPS games just makes your character slightly more resistant to bullets than without body armour, sadly.

 

[andyana]

While I'm all in favour of the Korean war as the next RO, I can think of one slight disadvantage: not so much tank action. Seems like a lot of the forum residents hanker for the glory days of Ostfront, and Korea wouldn't really offer that. After 1950, as far as I know, tank battles were very rare and most tanks were used for infantry support. North Africa might be a better choice for those who like massed armour with infantry carriers.

 

[Mazryonh]

While I'm all in favour of the Korean war as the next RO, I can think of one slight disadvantage: not so much tank action. Seems like a lot of the forum residents hanker for the glory days of Ostfront, and Korea wouldn't really offer that.

It depends on the battle. The 1950 Battle of Pyongyang saw some tank action, as you can see in the film below:

Urban Warfare scene from "Tae Guk Gi (The brotherhood of War)" - YouTube

North Africa might be a better choice for those who like massed armour with infantry carriers.

Well, anyone who has noticed that RO2 has only 2 tanks for usable vehicles can tell that TWI isn't the best with vehicle creation. Anyway, I'm sure some of us actually like the infantry-centric nature of combat. Tank spamming gets old after a while.

Anyway, as I already mentioned in my own thread, all that needs to be created for a Korean-War-RO game are the levels, vehicles (if any), and Chinese/North Korean forces' uniforms/models, and unique-to-the-Chinese weapons (since North Koreans used Soviet-supplied weaponry by-and-large). TWI can import the USMC models from RS (and possibly even some of the voice clips) and US weaponry from RS for the US forces, colouring them to make US Army uniforms. The South Korean forces can just be US Army models shrunk to "period-accurate ethnic heights" with different faces and skin tones, since they wore US Army uniforms most of the time and used American weaponry too. Thus, TWI would have a relatively easier time making a Korean War game than, say, a Vietnam War game.

 

[andyana]

I'm not a fan of the tank battles, as I prefer the infantry stuff, but I have noticed that there's quite a bit of resentment on the forums for the lack of vehicle content for RO2, and Korea doesn't offer a lot of opportunities for tanks. The North Koreans operated T-34/85s almost exclusively, and while the Chinese used a slightly larger variety (including IS-2s!) they were doled out in penny packets and used as infantry support. In the clip from Taegukgi (awesome film, btw) that you showed, there's no tank-on-tank action; instead, it looks similar to what we have now in RO2. A nifty look at armoured combat in Korea is "T-34 vs M26 Pershing", by Steven J Zaloga:
http://www.amazon.com/T-34-85-M26-P...d=1390569958&sr=8-1&keywords=T-34+vs+Pershing
Still would love to see a Korean War game, though: only ground combat one I know is "Forgotten War", a poorly-received Commandos clone...

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Regarding tank battles (and RO2's lack of them). Even many infantry only players like combined arms combat and transports for the variety it brings to the battlefield. They don't ever have to enter a tank to enjoy that experience.

That is why they want/wish for more vehicles in a future game and the current game. It also explains some of the anger because of the extreme lack of vehicles compared to ROOST and its mods.

 

[Jpz38 Hetzer]

Regarding tank battles (and RO2's lack of them). Even many infantry only players like combined arms combat and transports for the variety it brings to the battlefield. They don't ever have to enter a tank to enjoy that experience.

That is why they want/wish for more vehicles in a future game and the current game. It also explains some of the anger because of the extreme lack of vehicles compared to ROOST and its mods.

+1 vehicles add alot to a game, weather you like driving them or not, vehicle maps are the best.

 

[PsychoPigeon]

If Tripwire make a Korea war RO, won't people attack them and say it's just a reskin of a full game's price?

 

[LugNut]

Yep, CA brings variety to the battle. I'm perfectly happy not setting foot in a tank, but I like well designed maps that integrate tanks like Bridges and Rakowitz. Add in the mobile arty and mg platform that a tank is and all of a sudden keeping your's alive and killing the enemies can make or break your round. It adds drama and excitement as smaller battles focus on the tanks and not just the caps.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

If Tripwire make a Korea war RO, won't people attack them and say it's just a reskin of a full game's price?

Not if it was on a newer engine (UE4?).

 

[Jpz38 Hetzer]

Not if it was on a newer engine (UE4?).

Or a dlc.

 

[andyana]

If they put all the time saved by reusing assets into making a lot of maps, then I'd consider that a good trade-off.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

Well, tbh anything works for me that has a bit more, uplifting atmosphere . RO2 is a bit of a downer due to the theme, which is appropriate, but still a bit of a downer. Me I like my green trees . Actually, if I got to choose I would say go for another ww2, the weapons are just too awesome!

 

[LugNut]

If they put all the time saved by reusing assets into making a lot of maps, then I'd consider that a good trade-off.

* Maps and Vehicles *

 

[Jank]

If Tripwire make a Korea war RO, won't people attack them and say it's just a reskin of a full game's price?

Yes but there will always be something to attack them about.

Besides, when have they ever charged a "full game's price" for their products anyway?!

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Besides, when have they ever charged a "full game's price" for their products anyway?!

TWI has always been very fair about their game prices.

 

[Mazryonh]

Remember the blood we shed at the 38th parallel.

Remember the blood we shed at the 38th parallel.

I'm not a fan of the tank battles, as I prefer the infantry stuff, but I have noticed that there's quite a bit of resentment on the forums for the lack of vehicle content for RO2, and Korea doesn't offer a lot of opportunities for tanks.

I was only pointing out that tanks did play important roles in the Korean War. Besides, the relative lack of tanks in hypothetical Korean-War-RO battles will mean that players will have to support and shepherd them well or be left at a severe disadvantage against enemy tanks. That would be miles better than spamming tanks or having too many in one spot so that opposing players can't effectively defend.

By the way, I hope in a future RO game we'll be able to call in bombing strikes or strafing runs from friendly aircraft. Strafing runs would be a nice way of suppressing the enemy without the risk of collateral damage to nearby friendly troops.

Regarding tank battles (and RO2's lack of them). Even many infantry only players like combined arms combat and transports for the variety it brings to the battlefield. They don't ever have to enter a tank to enjoy that experience.

That is why they want/wish for more vehicles in a future game and the current game. It also explains some of the anger because of the extreme lack of vehicles compared to ROOST and its mods.

I'm not much of a "treadhead" myself either, but I doubt that anyone else likes it when, due to circumstance or incompetence in an RO match, you're left with rifles facing tanks. "You Can't Fight Tanks With Bayonets" indeed. At least with infantry engagements there are many more opportunities to turn things around when you're losing.

If Tripwire make a Korea war RO, won't people attack them and say it's just a reskin of a full game's price?

TWI has had haters right from the very beginning. In any case, a "Bloody 38th" expansion wouldn't just be a "reskin" despite the reused assets; you have to have levels emulating the Korean battlefields to be truly considered a Korean War game, after all. Furthermore, adding in the Chinese forces at a later date would add uniqueness to the game since they haven't appeared before in an RO game. If you really wanted to go whole-hog, you could even add the other UN forces who participated in the "police action" as well--they had their own unique uniforms and weaponry that hasn't yet appeared in the RO series.

If they put all the time saved by reusing assets into making a lot of maps, then I'd consider that a good trade-off.

That's part of what I was going with, assuming they start off implementing the US Army/USMC/South Korean and the North Korean forces (the first three used largely similar equipment and weaponry).

Actually, if I got to choose I would say go for another ww2, the weapons are just too awesome!

I addressed this in my own Korean War thread--the weapons used in that conflict are still WW2 vintage, which is no surprise since it was only 5 years after WW2.

Still would love to see a Korean War game, though: only ground combat one I know is "Forgotten War", a poorly-received Commandos clone...

The Korean War's lack of representation in games really does make it fit the "Forgotten War" title, doesn't it? I'm sure it would be a tad less "forgotten" if an RO game let us participate in Korean War battles like the following:

Tae Guk Gi (The Brotherhood of War) Trench warfare scene - YouTube

 

[Makhno [Anarchist]]

I hope for a RO3: Spanish Civil War 1936-39. That would be interesting and could include german army, italian army, soviet army, spanish nationalists, spanish loyalists, international brigades, revolutionary militias etc.

No Pasaran!

 

[mrsirr]

[QUOTE='Makhno [Anarchist]No Pasaran![/QUOTE]

Oooh I just had a flashback to my Metro 2033 days :0