First of all apologies for the title, but it crudely summarizes my input on the state of the gameplay atm. So please bear with me while I elaborate my point.
-Game pace
As a lot might have noticed the pace of the game is extremely high. Suprisingly, it is considerably higher then for instance the BF3 alpha was, and arguably even higher then CoD at times.
Firefights are decided within seconds (if they can even be counted in seconds, it's that fast), and the amount of times that they actually turn into an extended back and forth fight is utterly negligible. Assuming that most players are still rather new, it's a safe bet that this is not something that will change for the better. In fact, the game will only get faster paced as the game matures, as both player skill and weapon handling bonuses will come into play.
An extremely high pace in itself is not really an issue, but combined with other factors it does add up to a problem. I'll eventually try to bring all these elements together so keep it in the back of your mind.
I don't play FF except twice during the Beta, so I can not comment on the above.
-Distance to the fight
Compared to the amount of time spend in actual combat, the amount of time spend walking from spawnpoints to the fight is immense. The longer I've been playing the more awkward this thing has become to me. It just doesn't feel right anymore after experiencing it hundreds of times. There is a serious issue with how long it takes to get into the fight, compared to how long the actual fights last.
This isn't anything new and walking from spawn point to the objective has been an RO element since the mod days. You don't magically respawn two feet next to the cap unless you spawn on a squad leader or if you're playing FireFight.....
Having to walk a distance to your objective is normal and it's what soldiers had to do back then.
However, in RO1 and the Mod, there were transports, such as a truck for the russians or the Half-Track for the germans, among other vehicles.... so when those vehicles are added into RO2 in the near future, this will make things a little easier for those who don't like to walk.
The downside is that you're also a big target for anyone to blow up, and if your transport is loaded with other troops, that's a lot of points for someone.
-Squad spawn system
A mobile player spawning system is what can rectify this issue. If you look at Bad Company 2 for example, you have a spawning system that matches the pace of gameplay. The pace is relatively high, so the system allows you to spawn on every single one of your squadmates to nearly always provide you with a reliable way of jumping right into the fight.
Which I hate in BC2..... it's not realistic and makes it difficult for a defender or attacker to properly do their job when if they kill everybody but one enemy, suddenly you have a dozen more enemies appear when they spawn on that one guy.
I prefer to spawn behind the lines like a soldier waiting for the order to charge and reinforce, as it's more realistic since your advance in waves.
And when you capture objectives, your spawn point moves up with that objective, rather than keeping the same spawn point all the way back at the start and having to walk even further to the next objective.... this also simulates your military moving the line up to what was captures and secured.
But back to Ro2.
A vaguely comparable system is also available in Ro2, except that it is limited to squadleader spawning only. While I am aware that the system is partially bugged, even a perfectly working version of what there is seem completely inadequate and highly unsuited to Ro2 gameplay.
I personally don't like the spawn on squad leader thing for reasons noted above about BC2.... but I also understand why they have it in there and it gives the Squad Leader a bit more value for someone to pick that class.
Squad leaders play the game like everyone else. Basically meaning they die a lot, already denying you a forward spawn a very large percentage of the time.
If they're a horrible squad leader, yes you'd be correct..... but Squad leaders can dish out orders, mark arty points, they have a higher capping capability than most other classes.... and when it comes to being a decent spawn location, they shouldn't be running and gunning in the first place if you want that option.... They should be popping smoke for cover, they should be in the cap zone and they should be staying in a secure area that's good for spawning, while taking out the enemy.
And if someone can't do any of the above decently, then they shouldn't be the squad leader.
There also seems to be a block of some sort on spawning on squad leaders that are in certain areas (even though the game will still happily allow you to pick them as spawn, before dropping you on default spawn 1).
Chances are in that case, they were killed and are also waiting for respawn, thus it cancels out your ability to spawn on them and you are put back to a regular spawn point.
In short, it's not practically usable at all. It doesn't make squads stick together, and it doesn't provide a reliable way of getting you into the fight quicker.
If people do what they're supposed to do, it does.
So where does all this leave us?
With classic RO lethality, and RO map design (windows corners windows corners), it simply makes for a lot of camping. Sitting in cover and waiting for an enemy to show up in your field of view is such an absurdly strong tactic right now that it overshadows nearly all other styles of play.
This is evident by the sheer amount of players occupying windows, trenches and corners and just waiting. Personally I'm a player that likes to stay mobile and flank and take objectives, but the amount of people in the average server that are with me on this is dishearteningly small.
Again, this isn't BC2.... and since RO was a mod, running around and run'gunning isn't wise and only gets you killed quickly. You're supposed to take cover in a secure location, scan for targets, shoot them, secure the area and then move up to the next area & repeat.
Granted, I too prefer to flank and attack the enemy from the rear or side and I still do... I've been doing this since the mod days as well. The problem is that most people will avoid trying to do this until they are familiar with the maps and know which way is the best way to go to accomplish this without getting mowed down by an MG.
To get people to come with you, you need to communicate with your team.
Lack of communication in the game has been a crippling blow to any team in any of the RO's..... the problem is that if nobody is communicating what's going on and informing their team, nobody knows what's going on, they don't know where the enemies are at, they don't know where the open areas are to sneak past enemy lines, etc....
I am almost always telling my team where I am at, when I see enemies, where the most of them are located.... I tell them when I am going to call arty, I warn them several times where I am going to drop it, I tell them the grid location and how many salvos are left.
I tell my team that I am going to flank left through the buildings and I would require some assistence with at least two other soldiers.... usually I end up with several guys following along.
If nobody is talking to anybody.... if nobody knows what's going on or what the plan is.... most players, especially new players, will camp and play it safe.
This happens in real wars as well.... if your commanding officer is killed, most of your squad will hold position and become confused as to wtf they're supposed to do until someone else takes over and gives out the orders.
If my Commander or Squad leader isn't doing anything, I start to dish out plans and orders on what we need to do, even if I'm just a rifleman.
You'd be surprised at how much your teamwork can inprove when you tell your team "5 enemies are located in this building, 2 are covering this window, one MG is covering the doorway and two are covering the back entrance."
"2 Panzers are located in Grid E3, they are pinning down several of our team mates. We require some AT Guys to help them out or the Commander to call in some Arty on them, as they are camping"
It works even better and faster when you have the mic working.
Yes it is satisfying to break through the basement of Station and run through the building to kill 15 Russians that are staring out of windows, but it doesn't feel right at all.
It doesn't matter if it feels right.... they should have had someone covering their flank and that's their loss, not yours.
Every time I drop into a far objective and find out I have 2 people with me I am just perplexed, where is my team? I bring up the scoreboard and surely enough, there's 32 players on my team. But where they are? Somewhere in a high window waiting to pick off an enemy or two probably.
All these elements brought together, extremely high pace (frequent death), a spawning system that doesn't compensate for this absurd pace, and map design that inherently gives hundreds of concealed camp spots per map that are utterly impossible to keep track off for a moving player, makes for gameplay that feels incredibly geared towards keeping players passive.
Welcome to Realistic Warfare..... no you can't keep track of every single window or pile of rubble.... that's the whole point. Death is around every corner and if someone doesn't shoot you from a window, then they'll try and shoot you up close and personal.
You do your best to scan an area ahead of you, you do your best to listen for any gunfire to determine where enemies might or might not be..... you then take any out that you see and then before anybody can pin down where you are, you run like a bat out of hell to the next area of cover and gradually make your way to your objective.
Sometimes you'll get to where you want to be.... other times someone puts an extra hole in your head from an area you didn't check.
That's how the cookie crumbles, and it's the exact same for every other player..... even the best player with all the fancy unlocks and the top rank can't cover every possible area an enemy might be and usually end up killed by someone they never saw.
That's the way it was, that's the way it is.
There's no sort of encouragement for actually getting up and moving out there (no, not even the 15 odd points for a cap is sufficient motivation). When 2 teams have silently agreed that a war of the campspots is gonna be the flavor of the day, there is no way to not participate in that unless you want to frustrate the hell out of yourself.
There's plenty of ways to get around this.
While everybody else is camping on both sides of the map, you take the path least traveled and flank the campers who are not expecting anybody to rush them, as everybody else on your team is camping. Co-ordinate with a few team mates and organize a plan for 3-4 of you to come up behind the enemy campers.... mow their arses down and while they're dead, message to your camping team that this area is secured and cleared of enemy and tell them to move up.
They might still camp, but you're at least helping to move the entire team further to the objectives.
That and there's always lockdown.
But remember.... the key is for a few decent players to take the Squad Leader and Commander classes and do their jobs. Without those classes being used and working as they should, there is no organization, there are no plans or tactics being made..... nobody is doing any recon or providing arty support.... nobody is popping smoke for cover, so you end up with a team of campers who don't want to risk being the only guy moving forward and getting shot.
This is just the way RO is...... and it's been like this for almost ever.
Yes, as I said sometimes you can flank and get behind a bunch of guys but it isn't right.
Of course it's right.... it's a valid tactic and this is a game that you need to take every advantage you can get in order to win. If they're not covering their flanks and you can mow them all down from behind, then again, that's their fault, you just contributed to your team and made it far more easier for them to advance to your position.
And if you don't think that's right.... perhaps you're playing the wrong game for your tastes.
I mean if you want combat that is just straight on fighting head on with picking one another off at close range.......
^ This might be more your style
There's never any prolonged fight going on, I never feel like I'm in the thick off a battle. Only once in 2 weeks of playing have I experienced sitting pinned by an MG in cover together with clanmates and it was awesome!
But it just doesn't happen enough, gameplay simply is not geared towards creating situations of prolonged back and forth firefights. While those, without a doubt are the most intense moments of any game.
Exchanging fire, flanking, grenades, wearing the enemy down and mopping them up eventually is the best feeling ever, especially when playing with friends. But no matter how much you want it, the game just won't have any of it.
I don't know what game you're playing, but almost every match I play is like the above..... then again, I don't play FireFight or Countdown, I play Territory.... for me, that's where the real action & tactics are.
Changing the spawning system will already help tremendously in achieving this. Please don't burn me at the stake for this but look at how Bf3 spawning worked in the alpha. You could only spawn on your squad leader, and when your squad leader was taken down he could respawn on any of his still surviving squadmates. It made people actually stick together, and with a little point bonus for the squad leader every time someone spawned on him he was encouraged to stay alive and in a good position for his squadmates.
I agree squad leaders should get points for people spawning on them.... but I 100% disagree with your above suggestion of bringing in some BF3 or BC2 style insta-spawn method for people to simply appear anywhere on the map, especially the suggestion of the squad leader magically appearing by some regular joe blow in their squad.
I don't even like the idea of being able to spawn on your squad leader in the first place..... but it's there and I accept it..... in regards to the RO-style of spawning, it's exactly as it should be. You are spawning as a reinforcement for your team behind the lines.... when you spawn, that's your order to charge forward and reinforce the rest of your team.
And in real life, you have to use your feet and run.... you don't magically appear out of thin air.
Simply put, your above suggestions on spawning all the time wherever there is a team mate would destroy the gameplay simply because so long as one or two people on the attacking or defending team survives, dozens of their team can just pop into the cap zone instantly, thus either making it impossible to secure the area and make the game stall in one area of the map through the entire round..... or allow one team to steam roll over the other by using unrealistic tactics.
Allowing spawning on the squad leader is already at the limit for me.
I'm not saying this is the only solution, but I'm just putting some examples out there. I highly doubt the pace of the game itself is going to change (lethality and maps probably won't undergo extensive change), so the main thing to work with is going to have to be a better spawning system.
I like the game, and I think it has some awesome ideas and innovations, but it just doesn't all come together properly to turn all those awesome ideas into equally awesome gameplay. Things are a bit off, and it's getting more nagging after every play session lately.
It sounds to me that you've been accustomed to the run&gun gameplay style of other games where they just drop you a few feet from the combat and shove you straight into the meat grinder.
I personally can't stand that.... I suddenly spawn in the middle of a cluster-puff, I get my bearings on where the hell it put me on the map and by the time I figure that all out, I'm gunned down before I get a shot off or move two feet forward.
^ Which happens all the damn time to me in BC2, which is why I typically choose to spawn a cap zone or two back from the fighting & run back to the fighting so I know wtf I'm getting into.... and it feels a little more realistic than appearing out of nowhere, in the middle of a fire fight and then getting mowed down by several enemies before I know what's going on.
.... It's a wonderful way of losing your reinforcements/tickets really quickly.
I hope that some other people agree with the points I've made in one way or another, so we can think of suggestions to improve the situation.
The only thing that needs to be done is for people to learn to communicate better with their team and for people who take the commander & squad leader classes and use those classes properly.
I've noticed in BC2 that I hardly see anybody communicating with one another except to insult and troll one another..... thus insta-spawning on random team mates in the middle of anywhere on the map seems to compensate for the lack of "Real" team work and communication.
The system in RO2 is fine as it is..... people just need to learn how to use that system properly.
The only change I could suggest is to give squad leaders bonuses for people spawning on them..... that's it.
