Blocking with Zerk Weapons/Sword-Breaking Mechanics

[ArcheKruz]

This came to me in a dream yesterday, and I think it may help balance the 'Zerker's OP-ness. Why not give Slot 1 Zerk weapons starting from the Fireaxe the ability to block enemy melee attacks? The idea is that it further reduces damage to 5/(6+Floor{(Perk Level+1)/2)} what they would normally take after damage reduction. One may think that this will make the class more OP, but here's the twist. They weapons take damage, and must be repaired after every wave. The more resilient weapons like the Fire Axe and Scythe can have their damage reduced to up to 50% of what they do normally, and Bladed Weapons like Katanas and Claymores will see a damage reduction of up to 70% when fully worn down. Blocking will also be limited. Blocking effectiveness only lasts a limited amount of time and for a limited amount of hits. For the level 0 Zerker, their blocking effectiveness will only last for 0.5 seconds, and for one hit. They gain a 0.3 second extension for every perk level, and for one hit every 2 perk level, resulting in the ability to block for 2.3 seconds for 4 hits with a Level 6 Berserker. (Offperk, they only block for 0.2 seconds and for 1 hit.) Weapons that can block gains extra max health for every perk level, and they take (full damage - (5% * (Perk Level + 1)) from Melee attacks. Blocking will also have a 3-second cooldown that is reduced by 0.15 seconds every (Perk level + 1). Ranged attacks will break through the guard, and deal bonus damage to the 'Zerker. The same can apply for any attacks that happen beyond the time limit and block limit of the blocking move, if they are still attempting to block damage by then.

Another thing that makes this mechanic harder for 'Zerkers is that if the health of the weapon reaches 0, the weapon breaks, and will be unuseable for the rest of the wave. Repairing a weapon from its broken state will incur an extra 25% surcharge.

And for those asking, the block move will be shared with the ironsight key.

One more thing, any attack with weapons that can block that hits something, and it's not a headshot, will reduce the weapon's health by a certain amount.

 

[PurpleScrake]

And what if for example 2 other members of the team bought fire axe and then just give it to zerk when his axe "breaks". Wouldnt that make it op?
Btw I'm a new player and I just wanted to give my opinion so sorry if what I said is stupid.

 

[ArcheKruz]

Nope, because that's still 3 Axes you have to buy.

 

[vealck]

40% damage reduction just doesn't cut it for some people, I guess... ?

 

[Arblarg]

Just no.

No.
no

Wow no, so no.

Instead of writing a wall of text, code this and show it, even then this suggestion is just so no.

 

[Benjamin]

I think this could be pretty fun if balanced properly, though I'm not sure I see the utility apart from when blocking attacks from the big guys, since it's easier to just kill the smaller ones than block their attacks. I'd take the idea even further so that when a scrake or fleshpound attacks a player while blocking, they take a little big of damage, stagger a bit, and the weapon takes considerably more damage than if attacked by a gorefast or clot.

I'm not sure if you already said this when you mentioned blocking effectiveness, but I think it should be required that players time it just right to block, otherwise they will take damage.

In any case, I like the idea. Next time you might want to sum it up quicker so that those with short attention spans can read your idea and won't just post some silly meme in response.

 

[ArcheKruz]

That's the idea, giving the ability to block comes with a steep penalty of having to time it just right or you'll take more damage than if you just stood there. To summarize:

You'll be penalized for botching an attempt at blocking damage.
You'll be penalized for not dealing critical hits on Zeds. (I hear talk about how Zerkers used to have much less room for making mistakes, and this is one possible way of bringing that element back.)
You'll be rewarded for good timing, and knowing when to block, because a successful block will always come with the penalty of damage to the weapon itself, making it less effective for the rest of the wave.

There is one thing I forgot to mention that came with the idea, and it's that Zerkers are slowed down while they put their guard up. So this is another element of risk.

Arblarg, I know you don't like nutterbutter and his idea of how OP Zerks can get, but when you think about it, Zerks spend very little money once they get their weapon of choice, and they will probably offperk a LAR. They're the easiest perk to bounce back from after dying, and they're the most likely to survive an HoE wave after a near-wipe. When you add the Buzzsaw bow to the list of reasons why Berserkers are OP, it becomes just laughable. They can take down Scrakes and Fleshpounds from a distance. Engaging Sirens and Husks are no longer a risky proposal.

PS : I like the stagger idea, it brings a lot more risk to a perk class that desperately needs it to keep it in check.

 

[Arblarg]

I think this could be pretty fun if balanced properly, though I'm not sure I see the utility apart from when blocking attacks from the big guys, since it's easier to just kill the smaller ones than block their attacks. I'd take the idea even further so that when a scrake or fleshpound attacks a player while blocking, they take a little big of damage, stagger a bit, and the weapon takes considerably more damage than if attacked by a gorefast or clot.

I'm not sure if you already said this when you mentioned blocking effectiveness, but I think it should be required that players time it just right to block, otherwise they will take damage.

In any case, I like the idea. Next time you might want to sum it up quicker so that those with short attention spans can read your idea and won't just post some silly meme in response.

I read it in its entirety and I say no because this is Killing Floor, not Dark Souls / Not a generic RPG. I've never seen an FPS game with proper or even good blocking mechanics outside of just straight up riot shields, which are also dumb. Killing Floor would be no exception to the above.

Berserker class implies its own name to its abilities, it doesn't have time or even the desire to block. It just wants to hit things and be angry. Blocking? Aint nobody got time for that.

 

[ArcheKruz]

You don't play much Chivalry, do you?

 

[Arblarg]

You don't play much Chivalry, do you?

FPS -
First Person Shooter.

 

[ArcheKruz]

Well, you still shoot arrows.

In any case, I am willing to take any mechanic that makes melee combat more involved than "Stick sword out, receive victory"

 

[Arblarg]

Well, you still shoot arrows.

In any case, I am willing to take any mechanic that makes melee combat more involved than "Stick sword out, receive victory"

Remove AoE on non claymore / sythe, make zerks damage resistance 25-35%, leave speed / weapon prices. Done.

 

[ArcheKruz]

That would just slow down the inevitable victory for kiting zerker groups.

 

[Clowndoe]

Blocking is a bad idea because the berserker isn't meant to be hit in the first place. It works for Chivalry because the game is based around 1 on 1 combat where every hit you take is a crippling disadvantage. Add to that the fact that it's tough to step back from an incoming attack and the foundation in real world sword fighting and a parry or block is mandatory for not losing 1/4 of your health each swing.

Killing Floor melee is about having a big crowd of enemies who constantly chip away at your health if you happen to allow yourself to stay in melee range. If you were to parry or block you'd be holding your button down indefinitely since the enemies don't really have attack animations, and if you're being hit by one trash mob you're being hit by many, unless you're really clueless. But why would you do this? You're reducing damage to yourself while you wait for... what? For someone else to kill it for you? You can deal with it right now if you left-click. In-fact, you don't even have to left click, since holding down the button will remove all damage coming at you the same, without wearing on your weapon.

The only enemy it would come in handy against is the Flesh Pound, in-case you get too greedy with your swipe, but I'd hate to see what that would do to the already delicate balance as we know it. If it even gives the berserker one more hit to take it would be too much in my opinion.

Also, weapon degradation has been suggested, no exaggeration, probably over one million times. The zerk only really needs his axe/equivalent for a few enemies a wave, if he weren't lazy his knife and rifle could do most of the work.

 

[ArcheKruz]

The idea is that the window for blocking to be successful is very short, and when botched, will cause you to take more damage, and there is a cooldown to prevent turtling.

It's an element of risk/reward.

 

[Clowndoe]

You didn't respond to my concerns: There are no rewards. And like I said, it shouldn't work against Fleshpounds either, since timing can be learned.

 

[ArcheKruz]

The reward is survival. Also, Fleshpounds have an attack when raged that hits around 4 times, so there is still the possibility of messing it up.

 

[nd2spd]

Stupid idea imo. I'm inclined to agree with Arblarg.
It's supposed to be berserker, where you go mental and chop everything, adding blocking would make it really, really lame.

 

[Benjamin]

Obviously it'd have to be balanced with the other mechanics (reduce the damage resistance, for example), so that a) it wouldn't be unbalanced, and b) so that there's actually a point in using it in the first place. It might be difficult, but I'm sure its achieveable.

I agree that for general mobs it wouldn't be particularly useful, nor logical since it's so easy to just cut through them with a katana. It'd add some interesting strategy when fighting the bigger guys though.

I've never seen an FPS game with proper or even good blocking mechanics outside of just straight up riot shields, which are also dumb. Killing Floor would be no exception to the above.

FPS -
First Person Shooter.

Are you saying you just want to play a generic FPS, with no out-of-the-ordinary gameplay features?

---

Here's my take on the idea:

Reduce damage resistance to something more like 10%, so that the berserker has to try harder to avoid being hit by regular mobs (something we can all agree the berserker should be doing anyway). This will also make the FP and Scrake more deadly.

Pressing the iron sight key causes the player to slow down (or perhaps stop moving altogether) and perform a brief blocking animation. If an enemy attacks during that time, the damage is reduced by a certain percentage, and the player staggers a little bit. If there's a weapon damage system, the weapon is damaged proportional to the amount of damage the mob deals.

Timing the blocking badly results in wasted time, and results in the player being smacked in the face by whatever is attacking it.

If people are worried about it making the berserker yet more powerful, only reduce the damage by blocking proportional to the reduced damage resistance. So if we put the damage resistance from 40% down to 10%, blocking will reduce damage by 30%. Basically it'll be a way for the berserker to tank a hit from a Scrake/FP, while others have a chance to get some shots in.

I think one of the key ideas here is to add a little more strategy to the game, with some interesting mechanics.

 

[Splatpope]

remove zerk