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Arty vs armour in RO

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#41
As the right honourable gentleman said "tis but a game m'lud". Get a grip FFS this thread is increasing in gayness by the post, this board must be populated by artillery experts, how do you know artillery cant stop a tank, how do you know its naval gunfire, seems to me theres a serious bit of i got owned by artillery and i dont like it going on here lads.
 
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#42
-=BIGHARRY=- said:
As the right honourable gentleman said "tis but a game m'lud". Get a grip FFS this thread is increasing in gayness by the post, this board must be populated by artillery experts, how do you know artillery cant stop a tank, how do you know its naval gunfire, seems to me theres a serious bit of i got owned by artillery and i dont like it going on here lads.
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because we read numerous history books on the subject? and thank you for adding to the "increasing gayness" of this thread as you put it so eloquently
 
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#45
-=BIGHARRY=- said:
As the right honourable gentleman said "tis but a game m'lud". Get a grip FFS this thread is increasing in gayness by the post, this board must be populated by artillery experts, how do you know artillery cant stop a tank, how do you know its naval gunfire, seems to me theres a serious bit of i got owned by artillery and i dont like it going on here lads.
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You seem to know nothing of this.
Some of us have called in inderect fire, some of us have witnessed what 155 fire missions do, some of us have read a great deal about WW2 combat and have seen both of those famouse photos befor.
The panzer IV(the first one if you dont know) was a member of a german unit called the Panzer Lehr. It was destoryed on June 10th 1944 near Andrieu in by Naval gunfire in support of British Troops.
The Panther on its roof is believed to be from the 12ss panzer division and was destroyed "by aircraft bomb or naval shell" at Norrey-en-Bessin.
Pictures of both tanks appear in the book "Panzers in Normandy then and now"

What are you doing in this thread if you care so litttle and know so little of the subject?
 
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#46
-=BIGHARRY=- said:
Maybe you should get your head out of the history books and into the real world s**tberg before you start trying to flame people.
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Your a riot. Do you think the game was developed without research?
Without input from others? Just join a thread your interested in or know somthing about, something in the real world that you are so expert in.
 
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#47
I would really like to see artillery shells not damage the larger tanks (tracks should still be vulnerable) unless it lands directly on top of them or 1-2 meters beside them. This way as soon as artillery starts falling the tank has a chance to get away unlike it is currently where you have a 0% chance if it's called directly on your tank. I don't mind being taken out by artillery when I am in a tank but I definately do not like having even the slightest chance to get away.

IIRC the devs said the caliber of artillery represented in RO:O is 150mm.
 
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#48
There is no WW2 basis for the artillery system as implemented in RO.
We have a game that revels in the complexity of loading and aiming a bolt action rifle or a throwing a hand grenade, but grossly exagerates the ease of calling in artillery and the leathality of the artillery when it is called.
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Exactly, hit the nail on the head. Grid map would be 200% better. And it would be easy to implement right? I mean we have an objective map already...just add a grid overlay to it and click TRPs like you click rally points!



More realistically, Arty strips the infantry from the armour in an attack.
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Again, you cut right to the chase. Combat Mission simulates this very realistically. In that game, due to delays of communications for setting up a fire mission (especially for the Russians), it takes a good while to get a barrage down, not to speak of having to adjust it.

In Combat Mission, arty is used to prep areas and get infantry to dismount vehicles or seek cover. You don't have the time to spot every individual tank. If you did this, the round would be over and all the vehicles would have moved by the time you adjusted exactly to the spot. Arty is for infantry and saturating areas. AT guns and AFV are for taking out tanks.


This reflects real life. I have read of historical cases where arty was used to take out tanks, such as in Tigers in Combat by Wolfgang Schneider. However, it is important to note that this was very rare. This book lists EVERY action that the heavy tank battalions (besides those of the SS, which is going to be in another volume) were involved in, along with the fates of every tank. Out of all the Tigers destroyed, only a couple cases are listed as being due to arty. At that, it was when they had become bogged and were stationary for hours on end. Only after all this time did the Russians call in some arty and destroy the tank. It was not something that Russian infantry could call up on within a minute's notice.

In RO, for such a small group of infantry operating, they have pretty large arty resources, and it is exceptionally responsive. No way at the platoon or even company level you would get arty this responsive or plentiful, especially if they were large caliber guns that were divisional assets.
 
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#54
Rameusb5 said:
I love how everyone ignored my suggestion that the Artillery we call might be aireal bombs.
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Why? Where would you get the plane for the drop? This was already discussed somewhere and it finished with the statement that usually no
stuka or surmovik pilot waited in the air until somebody may call them for an attack.

Planes flew a mission, destroyed the target and flew back to the base. so if you want to have some planes attack your target you would have to wait a long time, because the planes would had to start, fly to the target and could finally attack = ~ 10 Minutes?

A "normal" field arty shell would not blow up a tank without hittin it directly. Bombs or Naval Arty can do that, no discussoin, but the arty in RO is field arty.
 
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#55
Rameusb5 said:
I love how everyone ignored my suggestion that the Artillery we call might be aireal bombs.
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Probably because if you paid attention in the game you would know it's not. Notice the various feedback when using the artillery functions. Words such as "artillery" and "fire mission" are used, etc.

Also, you'd hear the planes.

And you wouldn't hear the artillery firing in the distance just before the rounds impact.

And planes could not keep up a sustained barrage in the manner witnessed.

And...oh hell, I don't know how you even came up with that.
 
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#56
Rameusb5 said:
I love how everyone ignored my suggestion that the Artillery we call might be aireal bombs.

Keep up the namecalling, though. That's constructive.
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Do you think it is a good simulation of the tactical use of airpower in direct support in the great patriotic war? What characteristics do you think such a simulation would have? What constraints and what advantages?

I feel it would look nothing like what arty support looks like in the game but I am interested in your thoughts.
 
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#58
Atillary fires larger rounds than tank rounds they also come in from above where the heavy tank armour is around 15 mm thick just enough to stop an GPMG machine gun bullet or sniper round. The artillary should only damage the tank like the tracks with a near hit but only destroy the tank with a direct hit. I think the artillary is too accurate compared to real life and for game ballance.
 
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#59
Jack
I mean we have an objective map already...just add a grid overlay to it and click TRPs like you click rally points!
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Oh the abuse! Specifically beginning of round spamming right outside enemy spawn or on their first objective (think south village on Arad for Germans).

Also, this is the arty availible for the German's (depends on map), according to the History and Tactics Guide (Page 63):
  • 80mm motars - platoon or company level weapons
  • 105mm guns - division level weapons
  • 150mm guns/howitzers - division or corps level weapons
Artillery the Russian's use (page 79):
  • 82mm motars - platoon or company level division weapons
  • 76.2mm guns - regiment or division level weapons
  • 122mm guns/howitzers - division or corps level weapons
  • Rocket artillery - corps or army level; remember that this will fire in a single salvo of 16 or 32 rounds
 
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#60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Private Partz
"A tank IS designed for mobility and MUST move constantly to perform it's function and to survive....
A stationary tank is a DEAD tank!....whether it be fron arty, air strikes or other anti tank weapons...
Tank warfare is mobile by nature...if your sitting still for more than 30 seconds in game you WILL die one way or another!...it's simple...
When you hear those arty guns firing off in the distance in game, before you hear the shells screaming in, I suggest you move to another position ASAP as tanks do in real life, they always have multiple prepared defensive positions that they can move to if in a defensive role and if on the offensive you are on the move and fairly safe from arty anyway.... "


DudeWheresMyTank said:
wrong. a favorite german tactic is to draw enemy tanks into kill zones where their own tanks sat stationary in camoflauged or fortified positions. tigers were infamous for this. they used this tactic to great effect and a sitting tank is by no means a dead tank especially in that period. in fact, due to allied air superiority on the western front, all german fighting vehicles were stationary in the day and only moved during the cover of darkness
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Actually I Am Right and so are you....the tactic you describe is a defensive tactic as I mentioned and at that time the Germans were on the defensive...The tanks they were trying to ambush were on the offensive and hence mobile, which is the general purpose of armor in the first place...

The tanks you describe as stationary in daytime were HIDDEN as they would have and did die quickly if they were seen by the allied airpower you mention or they would be destroyed by artillery strikes and infantry attacks if located...

Regardless of our various viewpoints fact is we have to live with the programming as it exists at this time...with that said...

NOW!!!....(drumroll please) for Pongo the original poster of this thread....

A POSSIBLE SOLUTION FOR YOUR PROBLEM!!!...

Others will have to test this in MP BUT it works for me in SP everytime...
Try this...

Start a SP map with NO bots....join either team as a tank commander...set an artillery strike as close to your spawn as possible...get in a tank and go to the radio in your spawn (Arad works well for this)...Call in the strike and get confirmation from the arty folks on the radio...Quickly jump in your tank and drive right into the strike...KEEP MOVING CONSTANTLY....you can stay right in the middle of it JUST KEEP MOVING....even just a little movement will do... be sure to have the hatches closed and buttoned up...

I have tried this on various maps in ALL kinds of tanks!!!!

I survive with NO DAMAGE everytime!...If you stop you will be damaged or killed quickly and halftracks and BA-64's die instantly but tanks live everytime! I have only been able to test this in SP by myself BUT hey it might just work in MP too....Try it!...
 
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