A note about player movement and momentum

[Razvanss]

God dammit Ramm Jaeger it's not about the ****ing moving speed or sprint or whatever can't you see??!!It's all about the few mistakes you maked befoure launching the game...EARLY LAUNCHING!!The players will always frow the pain on anyting but the real reason is not that....but is
1.Why so many hero and weapon levels(it feels like BF3 or CODMF).
2. Native language is crucial for a realistic game(a realistic ww2 game is what everybody wanted on this forum remebber that)
3.The weapons and sound of them is very nice made but ffs i can hit a player with my pistol easly from a very far distance(recoil).
4.You fixed many many bugs and you produced some oders many times(this pisses of players)I sugest you find a solution to that..
5.I'm going to stop here becouse the forum is full of these things but remember...you are right about the movement speed but it's not about that,it's all about the players pain,a young soldier can be more faster than the player in game...so again it's not realistic (joke).I know the game world is a big business but don' forget that the reputation is very important for the future.I'm with you all over the way but try to understand us and try to do things in ''another way''.Best of luck mate!:IS2:

 

[Golf33]

See my post above for detailed information on this subject. I'm not sure where you got 60.352 UU/m for RO1 though, as RO1 used 52.48 UU/m as it's very loosely applied base scale.

Actually I got the figure of 60.352 UU/m for RO1 from you:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=25852&postcount=5

 

[luciferintears]

my issue isnt the momentum; its the fact that you can be sprinting full speed, and then pull up your iron sights to get off a pin point accurate shot within about 0.05 nanoseconds.

seriously, its like i have sleight of hand pro or something..

i dont know what it is, but for some reason it feels like my character is weightless. it doenst feel like im an actual human jogging around; instead it feels like im a floating camera hovering about 5ft above the ground. In RO and even BC2/BF3, it felt like my character had weight

Momentum is fine. I can stop fast from a full run and I'm by no means a fit soldier fighting for his life.

Then either you're some sort of wizard, or you've never done a 200m dash. it takes me a good 5-10ft to stop and thats without 30lbs worth of gear

 

[Forssen]

I think a large part of the difference is the time it takes to bring up your sights. In RO1 you are on a huge disadvantage of you sprint when encountering a enemy who jogs while it doesn't make much of a difference in RO2. Same even goes for an encounter with a enemy looking through his iron sights while you don't.

The only disadvantage of sprinting in RO2 is spending your stamina. I agree it felt a bit stiff to bring your iron sights up from sprinting in RO1 now when I tried out the difference but I think it's mostly because you need to hammer the iron sights key until it's possible to bring them up.

 

[Krobar]

Interesting post - thanks for that Ramm. I guess the sprint-zoom makes it feel much faster than it actually is?

Yes exactly. And the sprint zoom was actually added because a lot of players complained that sprinting in RO1 always felt too slow. So rather than make the game unrealistic and increase the default sprinting speed (we actually loaded up a real person and had them sprint in real life to see how fast they could run), we added the FOV zoom so that players would feel like they were moving faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Hay33ndHjwk#t=119s

 

[Private Who?]

that's interesting, thanks Ramm. Looking forward to Classic mode and new maps!

 

[Admiral Piett]

Thanks for clearing that up Ramm!
As somebody who never played Ostfront, I always wondered if people were really moving around slower than they do in RO2.

 

[ross]

Just throwing this out there -

Momentum is fine. I can stop fast from a full run and I'm by no means a fit soldier fighting for his life.

I'm a soldier and I cannot for the life of me stop fast from a full run with webbing and rifle. The only way I'm making a sudden stop in less than 20ft is by using some kind of solid vertical surface as a brake.

 

[Golf33]

Just throwing this out there -


I'm a soldier and I cannot for the life of me stop fast from a full run with webbing and rifle. The only way I'm making a sudden stop in less than 20ft is by using some kind of solid vertical surface as a brake.

I was a peacetime soldier for a while and I've run into the odd tree / wall / hard piece of dirt myself during contact drills. The way you put it made me laugh, thanks

 

[ross]

When Marines get bored - YouTube

Okay, not quite the same thing, but a good laugh all the same

 

[Mormegil]

Imo it's the other way round, higher FoV makes it seem like you're moving faster. And doesn't the FoV get higher when sprinting, instead of lower?

Edit: Beaten to it by wazups2x

Yeah, you guys are right. I just tried it with my wide-angle zoom lens. I take it back. But if the sprint causes a zoom out to a wider FoV, then Ramm's point is still valid. It just feels faster, without actually being faster (at least for running).


Though one can argue with the more realistic stamina, people tend to spend more time running. That would add to the perception of a faster game, since you are in fact spending more time at sprint. Same thing can be said for the faster IS, and "Rambo" hip MG.

 

[Goten]

I think the FOV or zoom you get when starting to sprint is too big, feels like preparing for warp-speed ... Could you decrease it ? By some 30% ? :/

 

[Colt .45 killer]

I've been finding that zoom when sprinting really annoying as it limits my view, and I want as much information as possible.

Now back to the OP. I don't think I have ever stated that players run too fast, I have stated that the abilty to side step is a bit crazy; however that is mostly tied to the cqb hit detection which makes side stepping a viable option to matrix style dodge bullets.

On to momentum, because I am quite sure here that I have stated this before, but I will do it again. In Ro1 players had to stop, then raise their weapon. In ro2 players can be running full out and just hit their iron sights button and the will be stopped and go to iron sights in what has to be around a half a second. This is what I am getting at when I say 'momentum'. The idea of getting in a rigid and upright firing position while your body is still moving makes me think of an epic faceplant waiting to happen.

Conversion rates or not, can someone please show me any evidence that it is possible or practical to stop from a full run, aim down your weapons sites, and land a good hit on a target at 50-100M in under a second?

That is what I mean by momentum, to some extent you have to stop before you can get into a firing stance. And the speed at with which it is currently possible in ro2 is hilarious. It is one of the factors that goes a long way towards artificially increasing the gameplay speed.

 

[Proud_God]

I noticed there is no zoom while sprinting when you set your FOV higher in your ini file. This leads me to believe it's actually 'unzoom while sprinting'.

 

[Greenh0rn]

RO1 used 52.48 UU = 1 Meter but this was not consistently applied especially since a lot of the maps came from the mod days. The maps in RO1 varied as much as 20% in scale from the largest to the smallest.

RO2 uses 50 UU = 1 Meter which is a 4-5% different. But given that RO1 didn't have a consistent scale it falls within the range that was used in the first game.

Also, your math isn't quite right:

Ro1 300UU/s = 5.71m/s (300/52.48) -> 20.55600 km/h
Ro2 300UU/s = 6 m/s (300/50) -> 21.6 km/h

Once again, it's 4-5% different, which falls into the range of scales used for maps in RO1.

Hello Ramm

If you look at my post you can see a link to one of you comment on the forum where somebody asked how much 1m in UU in Ro1 and others siad the standard 52.5 but you corrected them.

here it is http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=25852&postcount=5

and if you look at my calculations they are based on those datas what you said

so for Ro1 1m=60,352UU
and now new info in RO2 that is 1m=50UU

I can only calculate on those datas what i trusted so this is why i choose you comment becaus i think it is a reliable source, and i will proove to you u used the 60,352 for a m in Ro1 very easyli whit your scripts

for example

Is 2 Cannon shell


lass IS2CannonShell extends ROTankCannonShell;

defaultproperties
{
BallisticCoefficient=2.3
Speed=47073 //780 M/S
MaxSpeed=47073
SpeedFudgeScale=0.50
bDebugBallistics=False
bOpticalAiming=True
bMechanicalAiming=True
StaticMesh=StaticMesh'WeaponPickupSM.Ammo.122mm_Shell'

now 47073/780=60,34

class PantherCannonShell extends ROTankCannonShell;

defaultproperties
{
BallisticCoefficient=1.8
Speed=56427 //935 M/S
MaxSpeed=56427
SpeedFudgeScale=0.5
bDebugBallistics=false
bMechanicalAiming=True

56427/935=60,34

etc

Just look up the old scrips and you will find out you were use something araund 60UU for 1 m

 

[Kashash]

However part of making the experience smoother like more instantaneous responses are, like nearly instant ironsight speed right after a run rather than a slow down time (in roost after sprinting you could not use your weapon for nearly a second). So people are more likely to be running than would be the case in ost, as there is hardly any penalty in terms of time it takes to be combat effective compared to walking.

Next to that I believe characters have more stamina in HOS as well, which results in that people can be running more of the time, and are jogging less of the time. In Roost most of the time you would be jogging since a 100m sprint would make you out of breath.

Instant ironsight speed coupled with the damn breath-control function in its current form. Personally I'd rather the option of IS zoom is kept/introduced while the breath control is taken away. If anything, controlled breathing should be more or less a default* the moment you go into ironsights without the need for any key, but changed so that sway amplitude and period is affected by stamina level and stance, but always present.

my issue isnt the momentum; its the fact that you can be sprinting full speed, and then pull up your iron sights to get off a pin point accurate shot within about 0.05 nanoseconds.

I think a large part of the difference is the time it takes to bring up your sights. In RO1 you are on a huge disadvantage of you sprint when encountering a enemy who jogs while it doesn't make much of a difference in RO2. Same even goes for an encounter with a enemy looking through his iron sights while you don't.

On to momentum, because I am quite sure here that I have stated this before, but I will do it again. In Ro1 players had to stop, then raise their weapon. In ro2 players can be running full out and just hit their iron sights button and the will be stopped and go to iron sights in what has to be around a half a second. This is what I am getting at when I say 'momentum'. The idea of getting in a rigid and upright firing position while your body is still moving makes me think of an epic faceplant waiting to happen.

Thisss. TWI whether sprint speed and momentum is the same, whatever the reason is that the pace is so fast in RO2, just please bring us back the old pace that made RO1 fighting so great. I too wish we didn't have this breath-control that people take advantage of it so easily thus turning into a laser precision like shots. We do not want the comfort after sprinting in form of breath-control, but the opposite, the soldier should be penalised after sprinting by increased sway and have less stamina. Even if it's 5% difference then bring back to the exact speed so it matches with RO1. I even thought sometimes RO1 was too fast paced and felt quite arcadey compared to DH... But RO2 feels just completely different.

 

[KrvKrvavu]

As a MG gunner, who in RO1 was feared and respected class who could change the outcome of a battle, but in RO2 gets a bullet in the head seconds after revealing position from someone @150 meters who just stoped from sprinting i think that some things has to change more towards RO1 in classic mode, even if it means implementing some "unrealistic" things to get "realistic" result..
In a RO1 if i, as a MG gunner suprised 3-4 enemies at the open field they would be dead meat, and now if the ping is some 100-120 and they are running at some 120-160 meters i cant hit nothing if they sprint and strafe.
MG 34 has a muzzle velocity of 750m/sec and and some 8cm bullet drop at 100 meters... on the officail maps and ranges it should be a atomatic rail gun tareing apart limbs and other stuff, but, no, they bandage themselves while under fire and happily run avay at amazeing speed...

 

[Das Bose]

Actually I got the figure of 60.352 UU/m for RO1 from you:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=25852&postcount=5

LOL!


This thread just gets better....

 

[Gudenrath]

When Marines get bored - YouTube

Okay, not quite the same thing, but a good laugh all the same

Is that training for how to best knock down hooded POWs?

 

[ross]

Thisss. TWI whether sprint speed and momentum is the same, whatever the reason is that the pace is so fast in RO2, just please bring us back the old pace that made RO1 fighting so great. I too wish we didn't have this breath-control that people take advantage of it so easily thus turning into a laser precision like shots. We do not want the comfort after sprinting in form of breath-control, but the opposite, the soldier should be penalised after sprinting by increased sway and have less stamina. Even if it's 5% difference then bring back to the exact speed so it matches with RO1. I even thought sometimes RO1 was too fast paced and felt quite arcadey compared to DH... But RO2 feels just completely different.

Even without holding your breath, you're exceptionally accurate. The main issues are being able to stop and bring up your sights so fast from a sprint, being able to shoulder the rifle so fast, period, and the drastic reduction in sway from RO1. Re-introducing RO1-like sway alone would make the game feel worlds apart from how it does now - in a good way.

Is that training for how to best knock down hooded POWs?

No, they're just dicking around. I don't know what the dummies were there for, but old mate decides he wants to show off his close combat prowess to his buddies and pays dearly for it.