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A note about player movement and momentum

[TW]Ramm-Jaeger

Tripwire Interactive President
Oct 11, 2005
1,884
3,097
www.redorchestragame.com
I've seen a lot of comments about player movement speed and momentum in RO2 so I thought I should do a post to clear some things up. A lot of people keep mentioning that in RO2 players move and sprint a lot faster than they did in RO1, and that RO2 has no momentum system like RO1. Apparently this incorrect perception has been repeated enough times that people actually believe it so let me clear this up right now.

First off I did a test earlier comparing the movement speed in RO2 to RO1 and this was what I found (UU/S = Unreal Units Per Second):

RO1 Sprint Speed 300 UU/S
RO2 Sprint Speed 300 UU/S

RO1 Jog Speed 200 UU/S
RO2 Jog Speed 175 UU/S

As you can see the sprint speed in RO2 is the exact same speed as RO1. The jogging speed is actually slower in RO2 than it was in RO1. Additionally in RO2 players are affected by the encumbrance system so they can also end up moving slower than the defaults if they are carrying two primary weapons or a heavy weapon like an MG.

Now regarding the momentum system. When I did the code for the momentum system in RO2, I actually copy and pasted the code from the physics system in RO1. I then made some slight modifications to how the player moves when they are moving VERY slowly (i.e. when the player first starts walking from a complete stop or has pressing forward and is almost stopped). These changes allow the player to start walking from a complete stop just a little faster, and make the player feel less like they are "ice skating" or sliding. These minor changes were also implemented due to input from the features requested by the Red Orchestra community. These changes have very little to no impact on the players ability to change direction while move - that works almost exactly like RO1 down to the exact code from the first game.

I looked into this recently as one of the discussions for RO Classic mode features were to make the player movement speeds and momentum just like RO1 for that mode. Then when we found that RO2 player movement really is almost exactly like RO1 we found that wouldn't be needed for RO Classic.

Anyway, I hope this sets the record straight on this.
 
You forgot about character bonuses that give +20% more speed.

Anyway: Even if soldiers jogging/running speed at level 1 is the same, other factors make player movement way faster such like:
- lack of momentum, where soldier from full sprint can stop in less than 0.5 second
- ADS speed is ridiculous, with above soldier can stop from full sprint and enter weapon sights within 1 second or less and open accurate fire at enemy w/o ANY sway.
- players character fells like he wouldn't have a mass, he can do very fast zig-zags during bayonet charge

or way more arcade and forgiven:
- in RO2 player doesn't have any drawback if he get shot anywhere. He shouldn't be able to spring when he gets a bullet in a leg, aim properly when hit in hand etc.

These elements, details that you removed from RO or lack of them create a feeling of arcade, fast paced game, another shooter and now player movement has nothing in common with realism.
And HoS suppose to be realistic, right? So why you removed elements that were realistic in first place?

And no it doesn't feel at all the same.
 
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kiss *** harder...I knew it was just a matter of time before Ramm came in here trying to make the community members look dumb. This one is going to backfire.

I forgive your transgression as one of immaturity... for the truth is, you have magnified your own comments by your disrespectful behavior and comments.

Your comments indeed will backfire. ;)
 
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You forgot about character bonuses that give +20% more speed.

Anyway: Even if soldiers jogging/running speed at level 1 is the same, other factors make player movement way faster such like:
- lack of momentum, where soldier from full sprint can stop in less than 0.5 second
- ADS speed is ridiculous, with above soldier can stop from full sprint and enter weapon sights within 1 second or less and open accurate fire at enemy w/o ANY sway.
- players character fells like he wouldn't have a mass, he can do very fast zig-zags during bayonet charge

or way more arcade and forgiven:
- in RO2 player doesn't have any drawback if he get shot anywhere. He shouldn't be able to spring when he gets a bullet in a leg, aim properly when hit in hand etc.

These elements, details that you removed from RO or lack of them create a feeling of arcade, fast paced game, another shooter and now player movement has nothing in common with realism.
And HoS suppose to be realistic, right? So why you removed elements that were realistic in first place?

And no it doesn't feel at all the same.

What character bonus gives you 20% faster speed. Don't recall seeing that anywhere.

Momentum is fine. I can stop fast from a full run and I'm by no means a fit soldier fighting for his life.

ADS I agree with, while bringing up the rifle SHOULD be fast but the sights shouldn't be perfectly alinged instantly.

Zig-zagging has more to do with the netcode than actual player mass, the inertia is pretty much fine in the game.

Wounding system is half-baked. Bandaging as idea is fine, but why aren't there penalties or why does the bandaging take less time than doing your shoelaces?
 
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I think a big reason people feel RO2 is faster is the smaller default FoV. The smaller the FoV, the faster the movement feels. It's the same reason 70 mph in a van feels slower than 70 mph in normal, or even lowered car. The periphery moves faster the closer you are to it, giving the illusion of speed.

If RO Classic converts back to the RO1 FoV, movement will likely feel similar. This would be handy if TWI indeed gets rid of the peripheral indicators for Classic mode.

Of course the speed bonus could also be an issue, but that wasn't around on game launch.
 
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You forgot about character bonuses that give +20% more speed.

Anyway: Even if soldiers jogging/running speed at level 1 is the same, other factors make player movement way faster such like:
- lack of momentum, where soldier from full sprint can stop in less than 0.5 second
- ADS speed is ridiculous, with above soldier can stop from full sprint and enter weapon sights within 1 second or less and open accurate fire at enemy w/o ANY sway.
- players character fells like he wouldn't have a mass, he can do very fast zig-zags during bayonet charge

or way more arcade and forgiven:
- in RO2 player doesn't have any drawback if he get shot anywhere. He shouldn't be able to spring when he gets a bullet in a leg, aim properly when hit in hand etc.

These elements, details that you removed from RO or lack of them create a feeling of arcade, fast paced game, another shooter and now player movement has nothing in common with realism.
And HoS suppose to be realistic, right? So why you removed elements that were realistic in first place?

And no it doesn't feel at all the same.

- There is no bonus in the game that gives 20% increased movement speed (the max is 10% on the highest level). Since "RO Classic Mode" won't feature any of the bonuses (or you can already play in custom mode with no bonuses) even that 10% won't matter.

- Regarding lack of momentum, I actually just explained that the momentum system works almost exactly like RO1 in RO2. As a matter of fact, I just timed it with a stopwatch and stopping from a full sprint in RO2 is 0.7 seconds and in RO1 is just slightly slower than 0.7 seconds (maybe like 0.700999 seconds).

- Regarding doing very fast zig-zags: same comment as above, the momentum system works almost exactly like RO1 (it is even the same code) unless you are almost already stopped. So you can't zig zag faster in RO2 than in RO1.

- Everything else: the point of this post wasn't to debate everything everyone thinks is unrealistic in the game. The point was to clear up a misconception about movement speed and momentum.
 
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Interesting post - thanks for that Ramm. I guess the sprint-zoom makes it feel much faster than it actually is?

Yes exactly. And the sprint zoom was actually added because a lot of players complained that sprinting in RO1 always felt too slow. So rather than make the game unrealistic and increase the default sprinting speed (we actually loaded up a real person and had them sprint in real life to see how fast they could run), we added the FOV zoom so that players would feel like they were moving faster.
 
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Yes exactly. And the sprint zoom was actually added because a lot of players complained that sprinting in RO1 always felt too slow. So rather than make the game unrealistic and increase the default sprinting speed (we actually loaded up a real person and had them sprint in real life to see how fast they could run), we added the FOV zoom so that players would feel like they were moving faster.

I don't follow you there, Ramm. You're not able to zoom while sprinting, right?
 
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I don't follow you there, Ramm. You're not able to zoom while sprinting, right?

No, it's like I mentioned in my post on FoV, but gets more pronounced when you sprint.

A more narrow FoV feels faster. So to make the sprint feel faster, without actually making it faster, you get a slight zoom when you start sprinting. It's not the IS / ADS zoom, or breath zoom, just a slight FoV zoom effect.
 
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