Deathmatch!

[exorio]

I understand your concern. I'm saying also TWI should tha it one step at a time. Just the basic DM mode where the players can taste some competition within KF aswell.

@slavek : yes, just a basic, plain and working vanilla dm for a starter, with leaderboard after each rounds. Like those in the older games. Other stuff I suggested within the gameplays are merely me letting my imagination gone wild. Then see how it goes for KF. If it doesn't really goes along really well, then just leave it. If it got great response from players then develop it further. If it don't leave it just in vanilla dm form. Hey it's an additional 'bonus' feature. What more do you ask?

 

[BenioX]

This is the worst thing I've ever heard.

 

[exorio]

say, worst in what kind of way?

The way it'll affect CURRENT KF player?

The additional mode won't affect what KF known in any ways.

If it is implemented current players who don't feel like playing DM can just avoid the cursors from the DM menu. Avoid it like plague, purist co-op players. And we're all happy.

What do you got to lose guys? You're not obliged to play DM in anyway, and again I said it, "additional feature". Got COD:WAW but hated zombies? Then don't play the zombie mode. It's mere avoiding the mouse cursor into activating the zombie mode. lol.

I'll breakdown again how DM could benefit KF in most ways.

1. Attract more diversed players. The arguments before about CSS and UT players aren't cooperative? I've come from UT/Quake, and I enjoyed KF. It's a blast. It's just that I would like to feel the weapons within competitive arena aswell. And I feel that DM comes from most FPS, so why not KF? More players, more in-game advertising targets (the movies that shows the shirts, DLCs and such).

2. how long players would keep excited and motivated to play KF if their levels are maxed out? I do tend to get bored with character development games when my character got maxed out. Such as diablo. Repeat the process again and again and again. 2 times I beat diablo and that's it. yea sure, the higher level character would have the upper hand but that's really the point : how about giving the players the satisfaction feel to what they've earned? DM is easy to pickup but very difficult to master.

3. Some "less polished" game still lived on by DM to this day. Example? I still play UT classic (UT99) to this second for variety. It still have hundreds of servers online. More example? 4DRulers' Gore : ultimate soldier. Go google it. And... dare should I say, quake? Google for cube and sauerbraten aswell. They both offer DM game, free, and less polished than KF. yet the servers are populated most of the time. Or AssaultCube. I stop playing em since the weapons are kinda weird, not really exciting to shoot with. What's the diff to those games when KF got DM? The weapons. The atmosphere, the feel of firing up your bullpup and such. The blood, the engine technology etc.
*
4. It doesn't really significantly affect KF in any way, specially in negative ways, at least too much that will derail the TWI focus on developing the core gameplay of KF. The way it'll affect KF in development? I've said it already, and you've said it aswell already there're tons of community made mutators/mods/maps. Tripwire can fetch one that has the most solid base and bake it from there.

5. DM can grow into several game modes which will enrich KF. One I've suggested before. Last man standing DM. It's like "tag" game, and there're still some co op elements in it. Players hunt down the most powerful guy.

All I see from the replies and the arguments on WHY KF shouldn't have DM mode, seems to be over excessive paranoia of DM game mode? Is it?

Again I suggested DM as ADDITIONAL feature. I'm not asking the devs to fully replace the KF game style/core. But ADD IT instead. The co op and the core game will left unharmed.

I'm off guys. I've said what's in my head already and i dont like circling around and throwing the sam arguments over and over again. If TWI implemented vanilla DM I sincerely thank the team. If they won't implement it I sincerely thank them for creating such awesome game

Cheers!

 

[9_6]

My good sir, keep your competetive out of my cooperative gameplay.
I also like how you suggest unlimited levels right along with that.
Surely can I not imagine anything more enjoyable than some immortal lv32 twit spawncamping some lv3 players.
Your "moar moar moar"- attitude certainly won't do any harm to the fickle balance we're trying to establish right now too.
Brilliant.

As for deathmatch, there are mutators for that. Go play those now.

 

[timur]

say, worst in what kind of way?

The way it'll affect CURRENT KF player?

The additional mode won't affect what KF known in any ways.

If it is implemented current players who don't feel like playing DM can just avoid the cursors from the DM menu. Avoid it like plague, purist co-op players. And we're all happy.

What do you got to lose guys? You're not obliged to play DM in anyway, and again I said it, "additional feature". Got COD:WAW but hated zombies? Then don't play the zombie mode. It's mere avoiding the mouse cursor into activating the zombie mode. lol.

I'll breakdown again how DM could benefit KF in most ways.

1. Attract more diversed players. The arguments before about CSS and UT players aren't cooperative? I've come from UT/Quake, and I enjoyed KF. It's a blast. It's just that I would like to feel the weapons within competitive arena aswell. And I feel that DM comes from most FPS, so why not KF? More players, more in-game advertising targets (the movies that shows the shirts, DLCs and such).

2. how long players would keep excited and motivated to play KF if their levels are maxed out? I do tend to get bored with character development games when my character got maxed out. Such as diablo. Repeat the process again and again and again. 2 times I beat diablo and that's it. yea sure, the higher level character would have the upper hand but that's really the point : how about giving the players the satisfaction feel to what they've earned? DM is easy to pickup but very difficult to master.

3. Some "less polished" game still lived on by DM to this day. Example? I still play UT classic (UT99) to this second for variety. It still have hundreds of servers online. More example? 4DRulers' Gore : ultimate soldier. Go google it. And... dare should I say, quake? Google for cube and sauerbraten aswell. They both offer DM game, free, and less polished than KF. yet the servers are populated most of the time. Or AssaultCube. I stop playing em since the weapons are kinda weird, not really exciting to shoot with. What's the diff to those games when KF got DM? The weapons. The atmosphere, the feel of firing up your bullpup and such. The blood, the engine technology etc.
*
4. It doesn't really significantly affect KF in any way, specially in negative ways, at least too much that will derail the TWI focus on developing the core gameplay of KF. The way it'll affect KF in development? I've said it already, and you've said it aswell already there're tons of community made mutators/mods/maps. Tripwire can fetch one that has the most solid base and bake it from there.

5. DM can grow into several game modes which will enrich KF. One I've suggested before. Last man standing DM. It's like "tag" game, and there're still some co op elements in it. Players hunt down the most powerful guy.

All I see from the replies and the arguments on WHY KF shouldn't have DM mode, seems to be over excessive paranoia of DM game mode? Is it?

Again I suggested DM as ADDITIONAL feature. I'm not asking the devs to fully replace the KF game style/core. But ADD IT instead. The co op and the core game will left unharmed.

I'm off guys. I've said what's in my head already and i dont like circling around and throwing the sam arguments over and over again. If TWI implemented vanilla DM I sincerely thank the team. If they won't implement it I sincerely thank them for creating such awesome game

Cheers!

Well, its a matter of amount of work actually done vs. the outcome. And it may not seem like much, but a deathmacth mode could end up taking valuable TWI time. After all, if TWI has X amount of hours on KF, then how many do you want spent on deathmatch, when there are so many other things to get on with. I mean, it's not like DM will be an easy 1-hour project, but the implementation, special features, de-bugging, ect. could turn this small Blitz into a war of attrition.

So if this has the potential to suck out time from other things, then is it worth it? How much of the player base is crying out for a DM? And how many would sacrafice other content for one? You see, its a tad more complex than "lets just go add a mode". Of course, I'm not even part of TWI, and yet I don't really want to go out and shout "Do this!" and then shoot myself in the foot.

But, above all, I'm just explaining why there is such concern. That, and they just really don't care for DM.

Double Cheers!

 

[lawszepie]

1: kf engine is design for fighting against stuff like zombie!
If you want a dm mode, a lot of stuff need to change, not too much work?
weapons in kf were coded and made for killing zombies, the weapons in kf just not for dm like xbow, m79 and m32!
second, the gamplay problem. dont you feel that you cant see far? like in farm or big, night time maps, thats will making the game harder, which makes dm mode even harder to play!
third, perks problem. imagine a lev6 demo pwning down a lev0 rookie, thats will make the game like MW2, and makes the existing player think they're some kinda MW2 bi**h!

most important, if people want dm, why they choose kf when they can have medal of honor, black ops which is close to release, bad company and stuff like that! if you want to say people want a game that contain dm+zombie, then I really have to tell you that a lot of players dont really care about the price(mw2 map pack proof that), we/they only care about fun, and this is the point of this whole thing. I think most of the kf players like me have a fps game that got dm etc medal of honor, cod, battlefield series. its just my opinion, you can agree or disagree

 

[BenioX]

What do you got to lose guys?

RAM which I could spend alot better?

 

[exorio]

on second thought, I think I would stay here for awhile

RAM which I could spend alot better?

You don't load it, your ram won't be used.

That is how all software works.

Playing DM I suppose took less RAM, It even took less processing since there's no AI involved, and lesser entities displayed on screen. If your PC can handle the coop mode, surely it can handle the DM mode.

So, conclusion your argument on RAM or anything hardware related is completely irrelevant.

Anything else?

Well, its a matter of amount of work actually done vs. the outcome. And it may not seem like much, but a deathmacth mode could end up taking valuable TWI time. After all, if TWI has X amount of hours on KF, then how many do you want spent on deathmatch, when there are so many other things to get on with. I mean, it's not like DM will be an easy 1-hour project, but the implementation, special features, de-bugging, ect. could turn this small Blitz into a war of attrition.

So if this has the potential to suck out time from other things, then is it worth it? How much of the player base is crying out for a DM? And how many would sacrafice other content for one? You see, its a tad more complex than "lets just go add a mode". Of course, I'm not even part of TWI, and yet I don't really want to go out and shout "Do this!" and then shoot myself in the foot.

But, above all, I'm just explaining why there is such concern. That, and they just really don't care for DM.

Double Cheers!

this :

As for deathmatch, there are mutators for that. Go play those now.

half of the work has been done by the community. TWI just need to fetch one and bake it from there. Officially support one of the mutators/mod or something.

My good sir, keep your competetive out of my cooperative gameplay.
I also like how you suggest unlimited levels right along with that.
Surely can I not imagine anything more enjoyable than some immortal lv32 twit spawncamping some lv3 players.

My char on Modern Warfare is still a lance corporal or something. That doesn't stop me from having fun on 5 stars crowded servers. I just got MW along with KF.

I play LAN with some buddies who's old timer bought MW since its first released. Balanced? How can it be balanced since he got way more perks than I do. That doesn't stop me from having fun with them aswell.

Your "moar moar moar"- attitude certainly won't do any harm to the fickle balance we're trying to establish right now too.
Brilliant.

What kind of balance are we talking about here? KF IS balanced in most ways. Specially in the area which it have been intended to. Co-op play. What else in term of balancing the game?

How "balanced" do you want KF to be? Some other players got more kills than you that's why you want it to be fair and get the same amount of kills? Or others have higher level than you are and you want to have the same ability as they are?

Most of the thing I see now in this forum is suggestions to add more perks and monsters which will ruin the game balance further in terms of the core gameplay, the co-op mode.

Monsters and weapon addition and modifications, THAT WILL ruin the core game balance. And will took quite awhile to tweak the balance, until the players run the game for sometimes and stumbled into the monsters or the weapons, and post feedbacks to TWI about how weak/strong the weapons/monsters are.

1: kf engine is design for fighting against stuff like zombie!

KF originated from an UT2004 mod, that is unreal 2.5 engine. Unreal tournament 2004, at heart is a deathmatch competitive game.

I said it many times here already, and I'll say it again. My request is to have additional game mode, not changing the course or the core gameplay of KF.

If you want a dm mode, a lot of stuff need to change, not too much work?
weapons in kf were coded and made for killing zombies, the weapons in kf just not for dm like xbow, m79 and m32!

a map, with multiple spawn points and the ability to shoot at other players. There, you have a dm

also read this again :

As for deathmatch, there are mutators for that. Go play those now.

Half of the work is done already.

second, the gamplay problem. dont you feel that you cant see far? like in farm or big, night time maps, thats will making the game harder, which makes dm mode even harder to play!

The dm isn't implemented yet. How can you know whether it's hard/harder to play? It's just your assumptions. Besides, so far the community have created tons of maps, large, medium, small, etc.

third, perks problem. imagine a lev6 demo pwning down a lev0 rookie, thats will make the game like MW2, and makes the existing player think they're some kinda MW2 bi**h!

the rookie who just bought this game and went into DM is obviously retarded. Who would've bought KF for the "additional mode"?

That's kinda like somebody who bought COD:WAW or pre ordered Black Ops merely for the zombie mode :|

Again and again and again I said. I'm suggesting adding DM as an ADDITIONAL game mode, not replacing the core gameplay of KF.

 

[nutterbutter]

Fact that maybe 5% people or less will like it doesn't mean it'd be good idea.

5% is a fact? Run that scientific poll yourself?

 

[Undedd Jester]

More game modes are more game modes. I am not going to say don't add it.

Kf does have a good mix of weapons, and with some tweaking to weapon damages and what not could weel be awesome. Alternative is Eimination Free For All. Everyone against everyone and specimens running a muck, players have to be the last player standing, and anything goes

Black Cheetah and Marco both did make a Deathmatch mode. BC's was called Killing Strike, which is bascially counter strike in Killing Floor, and Marco's was a free for all mode and a TDM mode too.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=42247

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=35989

I don't know if either still works with all the updates and what not, but it may be worth someone digging it out, polishing it up and submitting it to TWI for official inclusion in the game.

I'd say I half support it

 

[exorio]

yea I saw killing strike on moddb. I havent got a taste of it, but this is definitely not what I have in mind. It's a total conversion I suppose?

 

[timur]

More game modes are more game modes. I am not going to say don't add it.

Kf does have a good mix of weapons, and with some tweaking to weapon damages and what not could weel be awesome. Alternative is Eimination Free For All. Everyone against everyone and specimens running a muck, players have to be the last player standing, and anything goes

Black Cheetah and Marco both did make a Deathmatch mode. BC's was called Killing Strike, which is bascially counter strike in Killing Floor, and Marco's was a free for all mode and a TDM mode too.

[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=42247[/URL]

[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=35989[/URL]

I don't know if either still works with all the updates and what not, but it may be worth someone digging it out, polishing it up and submitting it to TWI for official inclusion in the game.

I'd say I half support it

exactly! All I'm saying is that we need a decent mod. TWI doesnt need to do anything more, except perhaps whitelist it (player on player damage doesnt count towards perks). Even if it wasn't whitelisted, then add in a perk-addition mutator (already exists), and there you go.

I just think that making it official content may be a little much. But I think that the WTFMod proves that a good mod can become very popular.

 

[BenioX]

I just think that making it official content may be a little much. But I think that the WTFMod proves that a good mod can become very popular.

Pretty much what I meant. Making it official content, FORCED to be owned by others (taking some space from Hard Disk) is kind of too much, but making it a mutator is totally OK.

Damn, 4th post I have done since I said I'll stop. Kill me now.

 

[Vaecrius]

My concern is this:

The co-op game is fundamentally better and more fun, but doesn't have the same distilled dick-measuring and bear-hunting appeal, so people rapidly flock to deathmatch and can't get out.

The game is filled with crappy deathmatch servers full of dreary spamshooters rapid-headshotting each other (srsly do you really expect after all this time optimizing for co-op that deathmatch would at all be balanced on the first iteration???) that so overwhelm the available options that we actively yearn for the days of Bob's Doom2 Whorehouse.

 

[exorio]

My concern is this:

The co-op game is fundamentally better and more fun, but doesn't have the same distilled dick-measuring and bear-hunting appeal, so people rapidly flock to deathmatch and can't get out.

The game is filled with crappy deathmatch servers full of dreary spamshooters rapid-headshotting each other (srsly do you really expect after all this time optimizing for co-op that deathmatch would at all be balanced on the first iteration???) that so overwhelm the available options that we actively yearn for the days of Bob's Doom2 Whorehouse.

who cares about the balance? Is it matter really?

Man, you're trying to have fun with video games here, not concerning this and that.

Afterall dude, having higher level perks doesn't mean you get all the pwn.

I've been playing around MW aswell and most of the servers are invested with general ranked (five stars on their nick) players.

Along with n00bs like me sometimes there're corporals or sergeant.

There are some perks that will enhance the weapon, like firing rate or deeper penetration.

I play in FFA most of the time. Yet many times after each match the top scorer wasn't a general. I rarely got to the top, but again who cares? I'm having fun and that's what matters.

People won't fetch KF for the DM since they want mainly the co op game mode.

So, I can guarantee you, level 6+ commandos won't get all the fun for themselves in DM.

 

[Merin Redplate]

KF is a co-op survival horror. If you try to mess with it, I will have your children for lunch.

 

[exorio]

You already have several people like Black Cheetah and Marco for your feast

dm as additional mode dude. not changing the course of the core gameplay.

 

[imonoz]

Like a multiplayer expansion pack or what? Otherwise I have to say, no..

 

[Fa11ure]

Only reason i bought KF was because of the trailer i saw, tons of deadly specimens wanting to either pound you or make your head explode, and btw there already is a DM mod, Defence Alliance 2 has got a DM part ya kno.

 

[exorio]

^ see that's my point. people will still fetch KF for the co op game. I had it because I watch youtube gameplay too.

Yea I got defence alliance.

It's simply not killing floor. Totally different game.

I requested DM in KF, Otherwise I'll just stick to other games for DM and none of my thread would even existed.

Read the whole stuffs if you want to get deeper understanding of why and how it will benefit co-op players aswell.

you played for hundreds of hours. Then your char is maxed out. Then what? Probably you'll fetch another game and abandoned KF. Then KF will have no more player base.

How will it negatively impact co-op players? um. none. other than RAM and harddrive thingy beniox brought up . If this is the only concern most players you can aswell complain TWI about in ad videos that bothering the net connection. But seems nobody's bothered with the ad. You're not interested in the offering, don't watch it. You're not interested in DM, don't play it. Avoid the menu like a plague. Why is it so hard to do that?

Like a multiplayer expansion pack or what? Otherwise I have to say, no..

integrated, DLC, separate download whatever I don't care.