Panzerbusche

[airbornedude101]

I have been hearing about this AT rifle used by the Germans, looked it up on wikipedia but cannot find many pictures of this in combat use. Do you guys know any information about it? I have NEVER seen this rifle in a PC/video game before. It's like it is an unheard of rifle.

 

[Zetsumei]

all anti tank rifles by the germans were called like this as far as i know. They even renamed captured russian ptrs and ptrd rifles.

http://www.geocities.com/pizzatest/panzerfaust6.htm

 

[[TW]schneidzekk]

Well, they are either useless (the crazy high powered 7.92) or way to heavy. Does not really make sense to add them.

 

[airbornedude101]

I was not talking about adding it to RO or anything. I was just looking for some information regarding panzerbusche.

 

[TT33]

Well, they are either useless (the crazy high powered 7.92) or way to heavy. Does not really make sense to add them.

Well the PTRD was considered obsolete as well by 1943 the PTRD/PTRS were relegated to anti-material duty rather than for anti-tank purposes. I disagree about the PzB-39 because in the earlier part of the war (1941-1942) it was very useful against the more numerous light tanks of the Soviet Union such as T-26, T-60, T-70, and BT series (any hit to the ammo fuel or crew is good enough to knock the tank out). All of these designs served until the end of the war however only the T-60 and T-70 stayed pretty common in frontline usage after 1943.

PzB-39:
Length:162 cm
Weight:12.6 kg
Caiber:7.92mm x 94mm Patrone 318 Sm.K.H.
Muzzle velocity: 1265 meters per second
ArmorPenetration: 30mm at 100 meters at 30 degrees (34mm at 100 meters at 0 deg)


(pic: above is in France 1940)

PTRD-41:
Length:200.8 cm
Weight: 17.3 kg
Caliber:14.5mm x 115mm
Muzzle velocity: 1010 meters per second
Armor penetration: 35mm at 100 meters at 0 degrees
Notice the size of the rifle: it often required to be taken apart and have two men more the barrel and the weapon seperately:


Both of these anti-tank rifles however are in real life were ineffective against the medium (Panzers III,IV,T-34's,ect.) to Heavy tanks (KV's,Tiger's,ect.) series. Also the PzB-39 was in limited usage by 1943/44 in the German army however many of them along with other German ATRs were converted to the Gzb-39 Hollow-Charge launching rifle (shaped charge like the Panzerfaust) pictured below:

 

[airbornedude101]

Wow! Thanks very very much!

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

There was also the PzB41 - actually the Swiss-made Solothurn 1100 (from memory - can't be arsed to look it up). This was a massive 20mm semi-auto monster. Great idea, but way too heavy too run around with

 

[TT33]

There was also the PzB41 - actually the Swiss-made Solothurn 1100 (from memory - can't be arsed to look it up). This was a massive 20mm semi-auto monster. Great idea, but way too heavy too run around with

The PzB-41 (2.8cm schwere Panzerb

 

[Tank!]

Well, they are either useless (the crazy high powered 7.92) or way to heavy. Does not really make sense to add them.

As opposed to the PTRD which is both obsolete and heavy?

On the Soviet side, infantry units were still using the embarrassingly obsolete PTRD 14.5mm antitank rifle. Rounds could penetrate the thinner side or rear armor of older German tanks at very close ranges, but the lack of a modern lightweight antitank weapon made the Russian infantry particularly vulnerable to German tank attack.

The earliest German tank in RO is the Panzer IV F1. The Pz IV F1 has 50 mm of frontal armor, more than enough to stop a PTRD round even at point blank. The Pz III L, Pz IV F2, G, H, Stug III, Tiger I, and Panther G all have frontal armor at least thicker than 50 mm. Therefor the PTRD should be ineffective against all these tanks frontally yet in the game its not...
Even a Panzer II F's frontal armor would cause problems for a PTRD and yet in RO the PTRD can penetrate the side of a Tiger I (80 mm). Are there any plans to look into/correct this error before RO 2 comes out and if RO 2 has a PTRD will it be realistically implemented?

 

[airbornedude101]

As opposed to the PTRD which is both obsolete and heavy?



The earliest German tank in RO is the Panzer IV F1. The Pz IV F1 has 50 mm of frontal armor, more than enough to stop a PTRD round even at point blank. The Pz III L, Pz IV F2, G, H, Stug III, Tiger I, and Panther G all have frontal armor at least thicker than 50 mm. Therefor the PTRD should be ineffective against all these tanks frontally yet in the game its not...
Even a Panzer II F's frontal armor would cause problems for a PTRD and yet in RO the PTRD can penetrate the side of a Tiger I (80 mm). Are there any plans to look into/correct this error before RO 2 comes out and if RO 2 has a PTRD will it be realistically implemented?

If this was like real life, how could russian infantry soldiers cope with tanks like you said above?

 

[worluk]

RPG43, Molotovs, Explosives, AT mines, barricades...










oh yeah, and AntiTank mine dogs

 

[TT33]

RPG43, Molotovs, Explosives, AT mines, barricades...

Yeah, as well as AT guns and the earlier AT-grenade.

The earliest German tank in RO is the Panzer IV F1. The Pz IV F1 has 50 mm of frontal armor, more than enough to stop a PTRD round even at point blank. The Pz III L, Pz IV F2, G, H, Stug III, Tiger I, and Panther G all have frontal armor at least thicker than 50 mm. Therefor the PTRD should be ineffective against all these tanks frontally yet in the game its not...
Even a Panzer II F's frontal armor would cause problems for a PTRD and yet in RO the PTRD can penetrate the side of a Tiger I (80 mm). Are there any plans to look into/correct this error before RO 2 comes out and if RO 2 has a PTRD will it be realistically implemented?

True, like I put down by 1943 the PTRD as well as the PTRS became an anti-materal weapon rather than anti-tank although, it was not effective against medium tanks such as the Panzer III-IV it remained useful against bunkers and soft-targets. The 50mm FHA (up armoring of 1941) front armor tanks was designed to be proof against the Soviet 45mm as well as bigger calibers such as the the lower velocity 76.2mm (L-11) Anti-tank round. It was more than a match for lesser penetrating calibers (as well as easily overmatched) such as the 14.5 mm PTRD. The medium Panzer's (3-4) ATR vulnerable areas (not so vulnerable as the ATR required a ridiculously close side shot to penetrate at ~ 100 meters or so crushing distance) were covered in 1943 by Sch

 

[TT33]

Some more German ATRS:

 

[The Masta]

Don't you mean the Panzerb

 

[Shurek]

The Panzerb

 

[EvilAmericanMan]

What about that IMG28 that was used by the Soviets, Germans and Polish? I mean, since the MP41 is in the game why not a great weapon like that

I'd say add that GRB39 before the stinky ol' normal cartridge shootin Panzerbuesche. Would better fit in maps like hedgehog, not that anyone gets to play that map much anymore

 

[Quelpz]

I have been hearing about this AT rifle used by the Germans, looked it up on wikipedia but cannot find many pictures of this in combat use. Do you guys know any information about it? I have NEVER seen this rifle in a PC/video game before. It's like it is an unheard of rifle.

It's in WWIIOL. Useful for killing Stuarts, Cruisers, and armored cars, but that's about it.

It's also going to be in Mare Nostrum. The next update I think.

But yeah, it isn't any more useless than the PTRD. It has about the same penetration (a bit more I think), but with less damage due to the smaller round. The main reason TWI didn't bother with it, I'd imagine, is because the Russians continued using their so very prominent ATR throughout the war while the Germans gave up on them in favor of panzerfausts and such. And so we have Ostfront 43-45.

In RO it would be useful against T-60s I guess. But heck, the uber-PTRD we have already kills T-34s so there you go. Just give the Axis team PTRDs like in RO-FallenHeroes and you have a good idea of what the PzB would be like.