King Tiger/Ferdinand/Elefants/Panthers (Merged)

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

So it shouldn't be implemented because it can do what the IS-2 does already?

with the Tiger II it would be even worst then it is with the IS 2 already by times. You can penetrate the IS 2, when he is facing you with his bare front. With the Tiger II I hardly doubt you would even against the IS2 need any proper angle ... it would become for the guner a "point" and "click" adventure.

I'm sorry, young padawan. But as now no tanks in game are modelled without their 'main disadvantages.'

You're rambling is just too easy to pick at... Do yourself a favor and brush up on your history before presenting yourself to critiscism.




and PS: yes the king tiger should be modelled, using the arguement 'im scared' to attack something isn't very... convincing.

alright ... then lets add just another tank, in a unrealistic way, just to count him to the other not right working tanks we alredy have now to make the game better. Sorry if that sounds sarcastic. But the tanks work ridiculous now, for how long? the last ... 4 jears ? Since the mod.

Im not angry or pissed off even when it sounds that way, which i apologize for. But seriously, i do not get why to add a beast like the Tiger II or Jagdpanther, or Jaghdtiger or or or or ... when the tanks that already are inside the game, do NOT work properly and its obvious that with such heavy advantages like the Tiger II has on its hands, would just dominate the battlefield. Its like you would give the russians for there infantry combat a plasmarifle with a x-ray scope that shots through evry material on the map (watch the movie Eraser, with Arnold Schwareneger, and you get the piont).

Im NOT against the Tiger II in game! BUT in a way, that at least HALF WAY works realistic, and so far, from how much i get it, it would take just to much time to add it right in game, as some features we just dont have, like gear that brakes, mechanical issues, mudd that makes your tank stuck (70 tons, that is still something to consider!), ranndom aircraft against german tanks and so on.

Of course the tanks in game, are just simplified in many ways, you can not model evry bolt and scratch, even though when the TW-team did a gerat job with skins!, but tanks like the T34/85 or tiger have there major distadvantages in game. As a slow turret travers speed compared to the panther, or the T34/85 weak armor compared to the IS2 and panther. And considering how much richochets and flaws we still have with tanks, not that heavy like the Tiger II, I hardly doubt, the Tiger II will make it better.

 

[Afterburner]

and PS: yes the king tiger should be modelled, using the arguement 'im scared' to attack something isn't very... convincing.

"It would break the game." Is a much better argument. Atleast, it would break the game if no other changes are made. With the King Tiger you also have to add something like the SU-100 or SU-152 to help counter it. That or balance the map with a number's difference. Otherwise it would break any map it was on.

I would much prefer to see vehicles like the Elefant, Jagdpanzer, Hetzer,Panzer II, SU-100, SU-85, and BT-7 though.

 

[Maus]

with the Tiger II it would be even worst then it is with the IS 2 already by times. You can penetrate the IS 2, when he is facing you with his bare front. With the Tiger II I hardly doubt you would even against the IS2 need any proper angle ... it would become for the guner a "point" and "click" adventure.

No sir, it wouldnt. It would be like the tiger in early war maps... the front is basically off limits, but the weaker sides and rear will be entirely engageable. All you would need to do is use a few braincells to figure out how to outsmart the Tiger II and it's over-confident crew (which would be the case most of the time).

Again, the "i'm scared" arguement isn't enough. Sorry, but unless you come up with a decent arguement... well let's just leave it at please come up with a better arguement.

I would much prefer to see vehicles like the Elefant, Jagdpanzer, Hetzer,Panzer II, SU-100, SU-85, and BT-7 though.

all nice toys, yes i agree. But the elefant? Please... this is a weapon that was built upon the already existing chassis of the porsche tiger that never saw production. That said, not many were built... there were about 120 ish elefants/ferdinands in all? That's about 4 king tigers for every one of those monstrocities.

"It would break the game."

Not at all. The King tiger vs. IS-2 situation is like the Tiger vs. KV1 (... not KV1s). And that works plenty well in game already...

EDIT: no, the king tiger vs. IS-2 would be a far closer match then Tiger vs. KV1, in my books.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

No sir, it wouldnt. It would be like the tiger in early war maps... the front is basically off limits, but the weaker sides and rear will be entirely engageable. All you would need to do is use a few braincells to figure out how to outsmart the Tiger II and it's over-confident crew (which would be the case most of the time).

Again, the "i'm scared" arguement isn't enough. Sorry, but unless you come up with a decent arguement... well let's just leave it at please come up with a better arguement.



all nice toys, yes i agree. But the elefant? Please... this is a weapon that was built upon the already existing chassis of the porsche tiger that never saw production. That said, not many were built... there were about 120 ish elefants/ferdinands in all? That's about 4 king tigers for every one of those monstrocities.



Not at all. The King tiger vs. IS-2 situation is like the Tiger vs. KV1 (... not KV1s). And that works plenty well in game already.

then just try to flank a IS2 in a full server on ogledow, or a Tiger on Orel. Much fun. And good luck. But maps like Orel, Are luckily designed with a realistic background, you at least have the space, you can use, to get around the tiger and with a bit luck, thinking or teamwork, it works pretty well. to penetrate his flanks, cause of the dissadvantages the Tiger has ingame (turret, long reload times, compared to T34/76 etc.)

With the King Tiger, it would be just even more worst. For a semi realistic game like RO, he would be to superior. Believe it or not. I do not care anymore ... but if you want to test it. Play baraska, from the OLD MOD, where was no Is2 or Tiger. Just Panzer IV F2, panthers and lots of T34/85. Oh yes it was by times so fun as russian, when you had no artillery and the panther sitting on the bridge ... and you see 20 shoots richochet from his front, not even angled. As long this game has a tanks weak spots not modeled right (turret mantlet, driver slit, optics etc. etc.) a Tank like the Tiger II makes no sence.

by the way, i do know what you mean the KV makes a good job against the Tiger, as we have the crapy KV1s in game, that is doing a bad job again the Tiger on near any distance. I never can rember any single time i had to fear any KV1s. Nor have i ever been killed by one. A T34/85 and 2 T34/76, that are enemies i fear in game. Not the KV1s really.

 

[Maus]

then just try to flank a IS2 in a full server on ogledow, or a Tiger on Orel. Much fun. And good luck. ON maps like Orel, Are luckily designed with a realistic background, you at least have the space, you can use, to get around the tiger and with a bit luck and thinking, it works well. to penetrate his flanks.

With the King Tiger, it would be just even more worst. Believe it or not. I do not care anymore ...

by the way, i do know what you mean the KV makes a good job against the Tiger, as we have the crapy KV1s in game, that is doing a bad job again the Tiger on near any distance. I never can rember any single time i had to fear any KV1s. Nor have i ever been killed by one. A T34/85 and 2 T34/76, that are enemies i fear in game. Not the KV1s really.

Flanking an IS-2 on Ogledow is pretty easy. Usually i just stand near the farm and wait for the silouette of that massive turret to appear, then just pop it as it's firing towards the ruins... Or when the fighting reachs the ogledow capture point, it becomes even easier.

Flanking on Orel is easy, i killed 4 tigers in one map with a t-34 and a su-76 once. Pie.

with the King tiger, it will be the same deal, only on a bigger target.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

as said. Believe it or not. I do not care

The cleverer give in.

 

[Maus]

Well if you don't care, then i guess your arguement is forfeit.

 

[talc]

King Tiger \ Battle of Kursk

King Tiger \ Battle of Kursk

Have you guys ever thought about adding the King tiger to the game? And maybe balance his power bye making him very rare, or adding another russian tank to the game? I heard he was HUGE, and it would be cool if you could ride him What you guys think?

Other than that, Myabe making a map of the battle of Kursk (typo?) will be fun as everybody start to ram each other with tanks!

 

[Dav1d]

Big fat thread about it here

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14280

 

[M.C.Darkness]

I'd like to see the battle of Kursk in RO.

 

[BSE|Vietcong]

Yeah sure...

If TW would add it and if they would add it realistically, we would have twice the number of whine topics for the Elefnat that we have now for the Tiger.

You just read "88mm L71" and "300 destroyed tanks in Kursk" and you think that this tank is fun to play with because you will own everything. If there will be now breakdowns and no molotov cocktails, this vehicle can not be included. The Russians would have barely any weapon to beat it (they are simply not ingame, like IL2, Jaks, SU152 or artillery).

Why is everyone so gay for German weapons that were pushed by the GERMAN propaganda to a level they never really reached.
Oh yeah, and as soon as anybody posts a link with a .ru behind it, the data presented is not true and the person who posted it became a victim of mean communist propaganda. Just look at yourself...

 

[Welt]

Well said. Why is everyone getting a boner when they read about ubertanks? Jeeesh, tone it down germanuberlovers

It would be good to have when other more important tanks have been made first.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

Do you have any more?
l Really dont understand why people dislike this tank it was very similar to the Tiger I and worked about as effectively when properly covered.The Elefant verison proved itself even better.

if i rember, there was only one "elephant" version on the east front. And it was one of the poorest tanks they used. It had not seen much action and he got only the great kills, cause of the gun and wide distance in russia. Imagine 1000 and even 2000m of distance (or more!) and a gun, that could penetrate ANY tank 3000m.

The Ferdinand got recalled back, and that with a reason.

 

[A-tree]

These things are on Forgotten Hope and i hate them with a passion.

 

[Sichartshofen]

How to balance the Tiger II

How to balance the Tiger II

Disclaimer: This is not another "put the King Tiger in game" thread. This is about how it can be balanced. I don't want to see any "the Tiger II was rare" comments, or crap from battlefield.ru.

My idea is simple. Currently in game the IS-2 can be penetrated by any German tank it encounters. This is quite unrealistic considering the IS-2 frontal armor was 120mm at 60

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

uhm. First please dont call informations from Battlefield.RU crap, as long you cant prove them wrong.

Second, angle the IS2 and no german tank can penetrate it. The IS2 is in Red Orchestra the most overpowered tank. Just angle it, no panther no tiger will ever harm you. Fact. Even when this is totally ridiculous.

you can hold on arad a position with your IS2 against several Panzer IV 2 Tigers and 1 panther on a map like Arad (its very often not possible to rally flank on Arad, the map is just to small for that).


and if the Tiger II will ever see the light in ROO, i hope they will make him as realistic as possible.

 

[Afterburner]

It's not so much the individual tanks that are FUBAR right now, it is the entire armor system. Yesterday I fired a round from a Tiger at about 200m at a T-34/85 on Koningsplatz. It deflected. Now I figure I'm boned because at that range a T-34/85 should be able to penetrate the Tiger's frontal armor. He fires a shot, it deflects. I fire a second shot, it deflects again. He fires his second shot, and gets a deflection. I fire a third shot and it reflects. Then the IS-2 slags me in the side. So neither a T-34/85 or Tiger could penetrate each other at 200m, something either one should have easily been able to do.

I would love to see the King Tiger added in, or the PTRD made more realistic, or any such number of things, but alot of things need to be fixed at once to accomplish everything realistically. Personally I still find early war combat fun so I hope most new RO content is 1941-1942 stuff, with KV1s, Panzer IIs, and other early war tanks. And then have RO2 or whatever the next game fix the armor system.

 

[SheepDip]

I would not like to see any "new" tanks introduced until the penetration values and calculations are correct. Especially heavier tanks that were for the large part extremely difficult to destroy anyway.

It's not worth putting something in the game, then tweaking it until it satisfies, I'd much rather the armour values be sorted, then add the tanks afterwards when it doesn't take massive effort to sort out.

 

[M_W]

Agree...how many more ppl do they need to tell them that ballistics in this game are screwed until they really fix them?

 

[Rapp]

if the tiger II was introduced into the game and was no different to the tiger I besides cosmetically and sound effects wise it would still be great. we all know about this 1.5 o'clock angle for tiger 1 or 11 for is2 lark and how it needs to be overhauled but i would say its not going to happen for RO - maybe they are saving it for the new game in developement.