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Grenade Discussion (Merged About 3000 Times)

King Ragnar said:
So, lets see if a grenade came close to me and i had the choice to jump on it which would lead to certain death or run as fast as hell and jump away from it which could lead in slight injury, survival and possibly death which one would i choose................ Hmmmmmmm not rocket science is it.

No I think you need to be indoctrinated from early age, First you start out in Hitler jugend and then move on to SS , after that you need to bee worn down by battle , Perhaps an orphan so that all you have is your mates in the plutoon. After that you have to bee in a spot that it is absolutly clear that your friends will die and you to if you dont prone on that grenade.

Then perhaps, you react instinctly and run away anyway....:D
 
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SasQuatch said:
Since you've been 'talking' about it for 3 years and since you seem to be convinced MANY agree with you, I suggest you pick up learning how to write mutators for the next 3 years or find someone in your 'camp' to make it for you and make sure servers are running it.
The team does not agree with your point of view. So pick up where we 'fail' and improve it yourself, thats the whole reason the game is moddable.

lol pwned
 
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I`m with you Phoenix

Actually there should be more grenades, not only 2 per soldier but also staches of them in defence positions. T
he problem is that it is a Videogame with maps who are played out thousands of time. Everybody knows aprox where the enemy is.
This is a problem, But I don`t think limit the grendades would help, no one i their right mind would go city fightinhg with bolts and no nades,
It`s essential tactics.

Phoenix-D. said:
The problem isn't so much the number, its the predictability of enemy locations.
 
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k98Lemur said:
Granted nades were used in war, the way RO incorporates them into the game subtracts GREATLY from realistic gameplay. THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY! I've been complaining about this for 3 years, and many players agree with me. When you die and respawn your nades replenish, and this leads to an unrealistic amount of grenades raining down on every map, every second.

Please, for the love of God, make a limit system on grenades, just like "reinforcements" run out... make grenades run out.

I don't know if this is even possible, but please think about it. A lot of us who have been playing since the beginning of this masterpiece of a game are sick and tired of 100 grenade explosions and 20 smoke grenades ruining our firefights. It's just BS... in a 15min section of a battle, how many grenades were thrown. I guarentee you it is no where near the amount of nade spam we have been dealing with for 3 years.

I beleive its the job of the map makers to do so.. (isnt it?)

My suggestion for standard equipment:
* Give nades to the SMG's only
* Alternatively only 1 nade for long rifles.
* No nades to the Sniper and MG classes

Actually I beleive we should have more.. but as ppl respawn with new set of nades all the time, it gets messy at some maps.

Another suggestion might be to limit ammo: ie total of 60 nades pr team.
 
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sounds like people just don't like being killed by nades, and ya know what, the soldiers in WWII probably didn't either. There was a TON of them used in the real battles, and we're supposed to change things just for more firefights? C'mon, get your own server and make the change yourself. You will NEVER be able to control how another player uses their weapons, NEVER. If you change it for the whole game then clanmatches would be negatively affected, if you don't change it people get fustrated on the pubs, sounds like an impasse to me. The nades are fine, change your tactics.
 
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I agree that the amount of nades should be defined by the mappers. But there are still the problems that you either can give two grenades for a certain class or no grenades. As far as I'm aware of, you can't give one single grenade as loadout. Concerning smoke grenades you need even a mutator for not using them, if I did understand it rigth. So it would be nice if the Devs would make this more flexible for mappers.

But in my opinion the main problem of nades is not the loadout of the nades, but it is the system how they are used. You can switch from guns to nades without almost no delay. That is not only unrealistic, because in reality you need to shoulder your rifle first, before you can use your nades. But it's also the problem that because of this fast access to nades you can use them in almost every combat situation efficiently. If you would have a realistic delay for weapon switching you would be forced to think about it whether you have ennough time to throw a nade and have your gun back in time before you come in danger. This would force people to use the nades more realistically, like for clearing out rooms and enemy stomgholds, rather then running around with nades like in a arcade game.

Also it would be good if throwing a nade would become more complicated. For example that a nade roles a bit further after hitting the ground.

Another issue with the nades is that you can't hear them if they land near you. The only thing is that you hear the explosion after it's too late.
 
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I would a agree with lemur that there seems to be a lot of grenades thown. Since the devs arent going to lower the number of nads madmaxs' (and others) solution would be best. Haveing a delay would make someone think twice before throwing there nads.
There have been several times when someone shoots, misses then switches to nads throws and then gets there rifle out again before i am even able to get my IS up. Haveing a delay would stop this.

Juka was a good map and i did like how the nads were limited. This should be a hint to map makers to make maps with limted roles with nades.

MGers and snipers are really the only role that you can take nades away from with out taking to much away from their role.
 
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k98Lemur said:
Well thank you SasQuatch for the personal attack, and thank you for telling us that the devs disagree with 90% of the community. Now, we can go suck down nade spam 24/7 in peace.

Good Day, Gentlemen.

He said the Dev team doesn't agree with you and that you are more than welcome to fix the problem with the SDK via a mutator.

If you don't like it then go cry in your elitist corner cause I really don't give a damn. :)
 
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I don't really see any nade spam when I play. Things are a hell of a lot better than they were during the mod. The WAY people use nades is sometimes unrealistic, but what do you expect? It's a video game. People aren't going to play it with a realistic fear of death, with realistic tactics, etc. unless they CHOOSE to. There's no way to limit this and limiting nades at this point is pretty much something that should be up to the mappers. If they want to, groovy. Suits me fine. If not, no biggie. I haven't found it to be a problem.

Your mileage may vary.
 
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k98Lemur said:
Well thank you SasQuatch for the personal attack, and thank you for telling us that the devs disagree with 90% of the community. Now, we can go suck down nade spam 24/7 in peace.

Good Day, Gentlemen.

If "We don't agree, go do it yourself" is a personal attack, then 75% of the posters on this board need to get banned for comments they've made about TW. :p

You represent yourself, and only yourself. Please remember that.
 
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I've seen maps where people wanted satchels for destroyable objectives, but didn't want a dedicated saper class (so there was shitloads of satchel spam) so they would make slow spawning satchels at certian points. The biggest problem was that the satchel would be skinned initially on the ground as a panzerfaust, but so what?

Couldn't the same be done with nades..there could be a nade rack with say 10 slow spawning nades. If a team initially ran out and spammed all their nades, they would go a minute or so with absolutely no nade spam, which allows the enemies to bunch up in cap zones and such (large tactical disadvantage.)

Basically the system would be so that the majority of the players would still get nades, but they couldn't use respawning to get an absurd amount. Furthermore, it would not give a certian class an advantage (nobody would be rushing for a slot just to get the nades.) It puts the nades in more of a resupply shelf, instead of people looking for nades from dead guys on the front lines.

It would also make it more likely that people who knew more about the game (and thus imo are more likely to use and less likely to abuse) to get them. Also, if they were put slightly out of the way, people would only get them for the tactical advantage, not the spam.

The reason (IMO) that nades are spammed is quite simple. They are the only weapon in which you can keep a high level of mobility while still having accurate long range firepower. Think about it...the reason both teams spawn nades in the first 20 seconds of Basovka is cause they both need to get in the cap zone right away, but if nades were removed the sprinters from both sides would arrive about the same time and neither wuold have a chance to return fire before a melee ensued. With nades, you are able to mantain the same speed heading for the trench while still clearing out the enemies heading there.

In many cases, the reason nades are spammed is cause of poorly placed spawns/cap zones. The defenders need to stop an early cap (in situations like Basovka) so have to get into the cap zone asap, while keeping the offense out. The offense wants to get an early cap, and must resort to nades (almost as much of a counter to the defensive nade spam as because they actually need to.) Because they are slightly out of synch, one side is always spamming to conter the spam just from the other side, which results in the first objective in Basovka being a never end spam nades as you run to trench.

There are obviosily a lot of causes that lead to nade spamming. They are not the same as in AA (in which you can take out half a team by luck, which when everybody gets one life insures a win) and in CoD (in which their huge distance travelled means you can find a place you will almost always get a kill, and they aren't that good later on cause of the fast paced moving of the game.) The reasons are much more tactically complex then CoD, while much more subtle than AA. However, as the game stands, nade spamming is a type of dominoe affect thing that once one person does it, its not long before EVERYBODY HAS TO DO IT if they want to have any chance of winning. This is due primarily to the cap zone system being based purely off numbers of guys in the cap zone (where if you need to gain a quick slight numerical advantage, spamming nades into certian areas is about the only way to do it. Otherwise you have to hunt down a enemy, in which case you die more often than not...or you have to open somebody comes in time, which is rare.) If you throw a nade in a spot where 90% of the time people hang out in, you often tip the tide of a cap completly in your favor.
 
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