Panzer IV H and STUG G variants.

[Dheepan]

There were 3,500 Is2's built twice the number of tigers so it shouldn't be uncommon. Weren't there something like 3,774 Panzer 4 H's built? I agree the germans need new later war tanks, the ones the russians fight now are very weak.

 

[{Cap-Down}]

i was reading the Wiki articles for the STUG and Panzer IV, i noticed the number of H and G variants was substancial. More than the models we have in game, i strongly agree with this idea it makes great historic sense. The skirts also make a huge difference to penetration, /76 rounds could bounce of the side of a skirted Stug. Didn't they add about 20-30mm more of armour?

 

[Folgore]

i was reading the Wiki articles for the STUG and Panzer IV, i noticed the number of H and G variants was substancial. More than the models we have in game, i strongly agree with this idea it makes great historic sense. The skirts also make a huge difference to penetration, /76 rounds could bounce of the side of a skirted Stug. Didn't they add about 20-30mm more of armour?

No, the sideskirts don't provide any additional protection against tank shells. They were made to protect the sides of the tanks from Russian anti-tank rifles, but they also provide excellent protection against shape-charged weapons like the panzerfaust. They're only 5mm thick.

 

[LemoN]

well one problem the sch

 

[Dheepan]

yeah the ptrd is way overpowered. I can still blow tigers after the patch. I think one of the devs said something about hit penetration values getting buggy within 50 meters, which are basically the only ranges you are going to use a ptrd. So that might be the route of the problem , and not game balance.

 

[AtW]

Agreed - we need P-IV H above anything else, STUG might just be okay as lack of MG on it actually makes it unique, perhaps add Elephant ( http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz6.htm ) onto later maps? It also had no MG, but better firepower.

 

[Aelius]

Germans get rolled on all tank maps except Orel maybe 9 times out of 10. The last Arad map I played the Russians won before any Germans even got into our own town. They plowed into our field with their fast tanks stopping for nothing and packed two clown cars with people and dropped em off in town. Ended in a minute or so. My tank heading to our field never made it to even attempt to engage tanks.

Talk about lack of balance.

Clowncar has to go or needs to be changed so you can't ride around at 50km/hr regardless of terrain and not causing bodily harm jumping out. Either replace it with a truck or give the Germans an equal vehicle to match the Blitz this thing is capable of pulling off. On Orel a single clowncar with 2 people can blow all German bridges a minute after the first tanks pass them and can then camp in town and rain arty on bridge to pretty much screw the Germans for the next 20 minutes while the Russians can roll the rest of the map. I would love to see them try that in an halftrack.

PzIV and PzIIIs are great little tanks that get rolled by Russian tanks so easily it's sad watching. It's most obvious on Orel where the Tiger is reasonably invincible except for the buggy damage (splash damage from AP round on ground knocks out engine etc) Any one to two hits knocks out a PzIV automatically regardless of where it is hit. In fact I have died more times to single rounds in a PzIV than any other German tank on these maps. You are far better off in a Stug if you can't score a Tiger.

On any map other than Orel they really need to change the German tanks to the older model tanks and tank destroyers which are accurate. That's a minimum.

 

[AtW]

IMO Orel really shows the RIGHT kind of map for tank engagements - after it I can't really play Arad or any other tank map because they are just too small and very much arcade like, Orel makes you value your life (unless you enjoy driving for 3 mins) and thus encourage team work.

But Axis side could really do with better tanks on later maps without having to resort to all Panthers.

 

[kabex]

IMO Orel really shows the RIGHT kind of map for tank engagements - after it I can't really play Arad or any other tank map because they are just too small and very much arcade like, Orel makes you value your life (unless you enjoy driving for 3 mins) and thus encourage team work.

But Axis side could really do with better tanks on later maps without having to resort to all Panthers.

If Axis had real tanks, and soviets had real tanks, balance would sort itself out.

Right now every single map with the exception of Orel-88 gives the Soviets uber, impossible, never seen loadouts and the Germans the shittiest loadouts you'd ever see.

Soviets get a shitload of T34/85 in '44 and not a single /76 even some absolutely monstrous, completely umatched IS-2.
Germans get a shitload of completely outdated PzIV F/2 and Stug F. Rarely Panthers. Tigers were outdated by '44.

 

[{Cap-Down}]

I wouldn't say "outdated" i'd just say, they became a more average tank, Tigers packed a punch against the 85's and 76's, pretty much the main soviet battle tanks.

 

[kabex]

I wouldn't say "outdated" i'd just say, they became a more average tank, Tigers packed a punch against the 85's and 76's, pretty much the main soviet battle tanks.

If a new version which is much better came out, it's outdated.

Tiger 2 was being produced instead of Tiger, in '44. Tiger production stopped.

 

[AtW]

If Axis had real tanks, and soviets had real tanks, balance would sort itself out.

Yes, I think "balance" should not be seen as "same hardware", but should be addressed through objectives (already done in a way by having some sides defend X minutes), quantities (say attacking side should usually have more men), and points - I am okay with being hammered by Tiger so long as I get more points for destroying it - right now shooting Tiger with 3 crew gives same points as PIV. I know some people dont like points at all, but many do, so its still a game and points can be used for purposes of balance.

Talking of Orel (88vs76 which IMO is better balanced then original map) I found it much more acceptable to use poor hardware on AXis side so long there is good team spirit and team play

 

[Dheepan]

Well maybe the soviets had betters amounts of better quality tanks than the Germans For example there are 2 t34/85's to every Panther and that's really the best tank the germans have. Maybe giving one more panther to a map would be acceptable. However if you take that number to account, there were also 3,500 is2 tanks built. So every 3 panthers there should be about 2 is2's, and one Tiger I and/or or one rare tank. I really don't get the big deal about upping the gun and armour of the panzer4 anyways? In game you can penetrate the front plate of the is2 and both t-34 variants. And if angled you can deflect shots from all tanks. Armour thickness in RO is really an important factor.

Another thing about crappy loadouts, there are very few vechiles that come to the thousand mark but are actually superior to the panzer4. For example the hetzer and marder series all used the 75mm gun. The other tanks like the King Tiger, Jagdpanther, Nashorn, Jagdtiger were produced small quantities, in hundreds. You would get only one of a one of those rare tanks in a map. Regardless they should probabley modelled.

At the same time several russian tank destroyers haven't been modelled even though they were produced in greater numbers than all those tanks, this would keep a balance. The ISU-122 and ISU-152 combined, were made in a produciton of about 4,000 tanks. So they should supplment the heavy Russian armour, the Is2. Also missing is the SU-85 and SU-100.

 

[{Cap-Down}]

we want to add thew new variants for historical accuracy, i mean there were more of these later variants than the ones we have in game. If we added them it would be more historicaly accurate and a better balance.

IT MAKES SENSE!

 

[2M|Bivoj]

I know we've asked for these about 5 thousand times, but it can't be said enough.

There is absolutely no reason to have the Panzer IV F/2 and the StugIII F modelled in the game, instead of the H and G variants, respectively.

More often than not, they appear in late war maps(Arad, Rakowice, Barashka, Ogledow) the only early map where the PzIV and Stug appear is Bondarevo, but the PzIVF/2 only after the patch.

Panzerkampfwagen IV

Production numbers for PzIV F/2: 175 started 1941-04-01
Production numbers for PzIV H: 3774 started 1943-04-01

The PzIV H is a much superior tank, upgraded armor, longer gun, armor skirts, etc. There's no reason not to have it.

Sturmgesch

 

[{Cap-Down}]

I think he unearthed the main problem with RO, infantry are pretty much indestructable from tank fire if they stay behind inches of cover. The only way a tank can kill the infantry is to "splash" the HE onto the soldier if there is a wall adjacent or near.

Is it easy to introduce destructable items into RO? Or would it lag the entire game up? Not talking large scale but just fences falling over sandbags falling over (PTRD could destroy cover!) and Oil drums rolling about the place.

Who thinks Ro woulda been better on the HL2 engine?

 

[Moz]

I'd like to see HE explosion radius completely ignore geomatry, so if someone is behind a wall, the blast won't be blocked by it.

 

[Aelius]

Well maybe the soviets had betters amounts of better quality tanks than the Germans For example there are 2 t34/85's to every Panther and that's really the best tank the germans have. Maybe giving one more panther to a map would be acceptable. However if you take that number to account, there were also 3,500 is2 tanks built. So every 3 panthers there should be about 2 is2's, and one Tiger I and/or or one rare tank. I really don't get the big deal about upping the gun and armour of the panzer4 anyways? In game you can penetrate the front plate of the is2 and both t-34 variants. And if angled you can deflect shots from all tanks. Armour thickness in RO is really an important factor.

Another thing about crappy loadouts, there are very few vechiles that come to the thousand mark but are actually superior to the panzer4. For example the hetzer and marder series all used the 75mm gun. The other tanks like the King Tiger, Jagdpanther, Nashorn, Jagdtiger were produced small quantities, in hundreds. You would get only one of a one of those rare tanks in a map. Regardless they should probabley modelled.

At the same time several russian tank destroyers haven't been modelled even though they were produced in greater numbers than all those tanks, this would keep a balance. The ISU-122 and ISU-152 combined, were made in a produciton of about 4,000 tanks. So they should supplment the heavy Russian armour, the Is2. Also missing is the SU-85 and SU-100.

By this flow of logic the Tiger's armor should be much harder than simply being based on generic thickness calculation in game and virtually all Russian tanks should have a penalty on their armor due to the quality of armor used. This includes the rounds fired as well that tended to shatter on impact.

Since we are for historical accuracy and all.

I'm for it.

 

[Dheepan]

What? Where did I mention that.

The dev's are adding metal quality to the penetration system tho, so that will be taken in account. But if we were going for historical accuracy, the russians would have something like a 2:1 advantage in tanks and like 3:1 to in Infantry .

 

[Zerknautscher]

Panzer IV Ausf

Panzer IV Ausf

Why is the Panzer IV H not put into the game? I don't think it is that much work to model the "Sch