New Interview?

[DiedTrying]

Regarding gameplay; I don't think not having the bayonet would be such a big deal if not for Ostfront's horrible horrible buttsmacking that many of us learned to avoid at all costs.

Perhaps buttsmacks are much improved in RO2, and the absence of the bayo won't be so handicapping.

 

[DiedTrying]

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html[url]http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html[/URL]

http://www.cracked.com/article_1846...-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted_p2.html[url]http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted_p2.html[/URL]


"If you've ever been addicted to a game or known someone who was, this article is really freaking disturbing. It's written by a games researcher at Microsoft on how to make video games that hook players, whether they like it or not.

He has a doctorate in behavioral and brain sciences. Quote:

'Each contingency is an arrangement of time, activity, and reward, and there are an infinite number of ways these elements can be combined to produce the pattern of activity you want from your players.'

Notice his article does not contain the words 'fun' or 'enjoyment.' That's not his field. Instead it's 'the pattern of activity you want.'

His theories are based around the work of BF Skinner, who discovered you could control behavior by training subjects with simple stimulus and reward. He invented the 'Skinner Box,' a cage containing a small animal that, for instance, presses a lever to get food pellets."

Welcome to reality mate.

Everything is based upon the very same principles highlighted in the articles.

It's really nothing new.

 

[213]

it's nothing new? thank you captain obvious. bf skinner's research took place decades ago. it's nothing new? understatement born of ignorance.

i thought it was excellent insight into what developers are doing these days. i've long held suspicions. it was great to finally see it confirmed to some degree.

and don't kid yourself ro2 devs haven't looked into it, consciously or subconsciously, intentionally or accidentally.

 

[skittlesareyum47]

Regarding gameplay; I don't think not having the bayonet would be such a big deal if not for Ostfront's horrible horrible buttsmacking that many of us learned to avoid at all costs.

Perhaps buttsmacks are much improved in RO2, and the absence of the bayo won't be so handicapping.

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is that it shouldn't be an unlock at all. It's pretty sad that TWI won't listen to us. I even called it out before being threatened to be banned. I said no matter how many peopel say what, they won't change a thing, and even after many people thought the same way, what was TWI's response? "This is why we are doing it anyway... Oh and btw there is English in the game."

 

[teemu92]

Thanks for posting!

 

[DiedTrying]

Regardless, that isn't the point. The point is that it shouldn't be an unlock at all. It's pretty sad that TWI won't listen to us. I even called it out before being threatened to be banned. I said no matter how many peopel say what, they won't change a thing, and even after many people thought the same way, what was TWI's response? "This is why we are doing it anyway... Oh and btw there is English in the game."

Chillax

Notice the "regarding gameplay" precursor in my post...It means I was addressing the gameplay effects, which was my point

I agree about the issue of realism, but that wasn't the point of my post.

 

[DraKon2k]

I was surprised, but I bet it will be among the 1st unlocks anyways so it probably won't take long until you get it. No big deal. Just the usual 5-6 people crying how HoS isn't a ww2 ArmA.

 

[Echo Black]

I was surprised, but I bet it will be among the 1st unlocks anyways so it probably won't take long until you get it. No big deal. Just the usual 5-6 people crying how HoS isn't a ww2 ArmA.

I'm curious, what would you say are positive qualities to an unlock system? RO's unique gameplay should more than suffice to keep people coming back for more, no need for carrots-in-a-stick. Have you ever found yourself playing ROOST and thinking "Damn, you know what would make this game even better? Unlocks!"? I haven't.

---

 

[catar]

Do we actually know that it is for every rifle? Maybe Kar and Mosin have bayonets and more "exotic" rifles have it as a unlock. I'll wait till I play HOS before passing my judgment

 

[hockeywarrior]

I was surprised, but I bet it will be among the 1st unlocks anyways so it probably won't take long until you get it. No big deal. Just the usual 5-6 people crying how HoS isn't a ww2 ArmA.

Seriously, how it is that you haven't been permanently banned for trolling and flaming by now?

And a WWII ARMA is certainly not what I want anyway. I want a game that feels, plays, and is as historically accurate as RO1, within reason. With this very CoD-esque unlock system, the tone of the game is significantly changing from what many of us came to expect when the game was announced and how we've heard the devs talk about the game since then. Only in the last few months have we started to realize the extent of these major game changers.

Obvoiusly, I've probably posted that paragraph a thousand times in this and other threads so far, but it's just to prove the point that these concerns are legitimate and should at least be acknowledged and not flamed. We're not being disrespectful to your views, so how about making at least an attempt to respect ours.

As others who have agreed have also posted, just claiming "just play on servers with it turned off" is not a valid argument. The reason for this is because the hypothetical "realism" servers that feature loadouts and gameplay settings like those found in RO1 (no weird unlocks, standard issue equipment is standard, etc etc) will be lumped in with every other crazy custom settings server, including those that may feature crosshairs, fast run speeds, or even just modded servers that don't reflect the gameplay we are looking for.

This could easily be addressed if TWI simply created a simple "barebones" or "Classic Red Orchestra" gameplay preset, so that servers could simply run it and it would be filterable for those of us who want to play the way we thought the game would play when it's announced. That's all we're really asking for -- the game is what it is, but I think it's only fair that the legitimate concerns of much of the community be listened to and addressed.

When this game releases, there's going to be a much larger ****storm of complaining about these very same topics from RO regulars that don't frequent the forums and want to know why their game has changed. I'm simply recommending taking proactive steps before that happens.

 

[tofupunk]

.....
This could easily be addressed if TWI simply created a simple "barebones" or "Classic Red Orchestra" gameplay preset
...

This. Really a simple, low cost solution to the ****storm that's been brewing on the forums the last couple of days.

 

[hockeywarrior]

This. Really a simple, low cost solution to the ****storm that's been brewing on the forums the last couple of days.

How about a no cost solution?

 

[gyps]

the fundamental problem with these arguments for and agianst is we're going on hear-say and a couple of cam corder vids

Till we get to play we've actaully no idea what is and isn't in the game.

So while i share your worries that they are fundementally changing RO, in ways that may not be my choosing till get a chance to play it's very speclative.

True Dev's could stop the speculation be releasing info, but without footage of how it applies it only seems to make things more inflamed.

I really dont see them abandoning the die hards who've been with them for years - that why I'm convinced much of the stuff the causes controversy will be optional on servers enabling realisum guys to continue playing as they would wish.

They are trying to bring in new players but i cant see them dropping the old ones, besides if they aiming to get more of the competitve players in they're not gunna be happy if they got a rifle and the other guys got MK42 with a scope just because he's played a month longer - so that also leads me to believe much can be turn on and off server side

the gist of this is I'm prepared to give them the befit of the doubt till i get chance to play - isn't it innnocent until proven guilty ?

 

[Reddog]

How about a no cost solution?

It'll cost man hours

But I agree with you entirely :IS2:

 

[DiedTrying]

I don't see how "cam corder vids" somehow cast speculation upon words that came directly out of Tripwire employees mouths.

This isn't a case of low quality video and a shaky hand obscuring our view of objects in the game.

 

[LemoN]

I really dont see them abandoning the die hards who've been with them for years - that why I'm convinced much of the stuff the causes controversy will be optional on servers enabling realisum guys to continue playing as they would wish.

Hmm, I can see it happen quite easily. Other devs have done it in the past, and I doubt that TWI is "immune" against it.

Don't get me wrong, I want TWI to sell a lot but I've got the feeling that they're chasing after the quick buck of a community that isn't interested in their game for what it is and only sees it as a tool to get something they didn't get from the games they're really interested in. All the while TWI have done their best to alienate their own community, even the most die-hard old-timers I know are getting cold feet.

HoS reminds me more and more of what happened before the OFPR release.

 

[ibleedv20]

What is invalid about requiring playing time to simulate the battle experience of a soldier ?

Time is the prime factor that helps a soldier gain experience

You can give all the reasons why these things rub you the wrong way but you were never playing a sim in RO to begin with. You are playing a game that brought realism into the mix.

You played it like a sim as best you could......some of you.

Bayonets as unlocks
Enemy weapons as unlocks
Rank buffs like faster reloads, better stamina

They are game mechanics that have proven popular in games today.

Mechanics that give the player something to strive for.

Not GRIND.

Grind is an expression of when these things have gone way way too far.

You act as if popular is some evil thing that will kill you.

What will kill you is just having another Arma.

That game has already been made.

I laugh when words like COD are introduced to describe the game you have not played yet.

In a pigs eye.

In a recent conversation with someone I was astounded that they would talk of quitting the game and use phrases like "lied to" to describe their experience.

All because of a few elements that have been carefully (imo) implemented to make the game more accessible.

This really isn't about the game.

 

[LemoN]

What is invalid about requiring playing time to simulate the battle experience of a soldier ?

Time is the prime factor that helps a soldier gain experience

It's neither realistic, nor is it good for gameplay.

All mental attributes are on the players side. When to keep your head down, when to fire back. It's called experience for a reason and it can not and should not be modelled in a game where the player has direct control over the actions of his avatar. The player is the guy who gains experience and gets better. And in terms of physical aspects, any veteran is bound to be in a weaker physical state than recruit fresh from bootcamp.

You can give all the reasons why these things rub you the wrong way but you were never playing a sim in RO to begin with. You are playing a game that brought realism into the mix.

I don't think anyone, except a couple of SS REALIZUM guys were thinking RO is/was a sim to begin with.

I like the term "casual realism", realistic features tacked onto arcade gameplay in a way that it fits (unlike, let's say, CoD Hardcore).

You played it like a sim as best you could......some of you.

And throwing anyone who complains about the unlocks into the "sim" part of the group is simply showing you neither have the interest nor the will to understand the reasons why people are so shocked. Heck, most people I've spoken to that are shocked are, *surprise surprise* NOT from the realism camp. They've been playing RO since the mod days and were laughing at the people who saw more in RO than a game.

Bayonets as unlocks
Enemy weapons as unlocks
Rank buffs like faster reloads, better stamina

They are game mechanics that have proven popular in games today.

Yes, and guess what?

Many people who loved RO1 saw those features as one of the reason why they didn't like said "popular" games.

Mechanics that give the player something to strive for.

I'd rather call them "Mechanics that make people play a dull game."

Not GRIND.

Grind is an expression of when these things have gone way way too far.

Grind is subjective.

You act as if popular is some evil thing that will kill you.

We have seen how many good franchises have gone down the drain, it's quite understandable that we are getting cold feet. Popularity is nothing bad, but if the price of popularity is a drastic change in the values and "soul" of a game, then yes, it IS something evil.

What will kill you is just having another Arma.

I doubt that ANYONE would want RO to be ArmA.

In a recent conversation with someone I was astounded that they would talk of quitting the game and use phrases like "lied to" to describe their experience.

I would rather use the term "intentionally mislead".

All because of a few elements that have been carefully (imo) implemented to make the game more accessible.

Don't bring "accessibility" into the mix here. Unlocks and stat boosts have NOTHING to do with accessibility, and rather make the game less balanced for newcomers.

This really isn't about the game.

I'm pretty sure it is.

 

[VariousNames]

What is invalid about requiring playing time to simulate the battle experience of a soldier ?

Time is the prime factor that helps a soldier gain experience

Playing time occurs across literally dozens of soldier deaths in the same session. Playing time is calculated as a meta value instead of just a lifespan quantity. You level up as a player, not as a soldier. There are no respawns in real life and hence experience does not carry over after death.

Further, as other players have pointed out....they may personally not be turned off by leveling and unlocks for rare items or even gaining abilities over time. But it is not realistic for people to have to work towards standard issue equipment like PaPaSha drum mags and bayonets because they were available to every soldier regardless of his level of combat experience.

There is nothing realistic about this model.

They are game mechanics that have proven popular in games today.

Mechanics that give the player something to strive for.

Not GRIND.

Grind is an expression of when these things have gone way way too far.

You act as if popular is some evil thing that will kill you.

You act as if copy-pasting a bunch of trendy "metagame" mechanics will make your game popular.

I have some bad news for you:

http://breachgame.com/[url]http://breachgame.com/[/URL]

"Breach" is all that remains of "8 Days in Fallujah," a sexy combat sim that got cut down by the publisher in spite of considerable curiosity from the market.

If it were a matter of copy-pasting mechanics into the game and receiving an instant million sale levelup, I would be in favor of it, if only so TW could pocket more dollars. There is no guarantee of that, and if you read this thread, none of the posters on this forum really want standard issue things as unlocks, for balance issues, and then just the fact that it's an inconvenience, and an absurd and pointless one at that.

Incidentally, I don't see what's so attractive about making players literally work towards something in a videogame
strive/strīv/Verb

1. Make great efforts to achieve or obtain something.

But I'm telling you right now, the model is a behavioral one made to force the player to play in a particular, compulsive way. It has nothing to do with fun. It has everything to do with unhealthy compulsion. I can link you more articles on behavioral science if you wish?

I laugh when words like COD are introduced to describe the game you have not played yet.

COD, in so many words, did not require you to unlock your melee attack (combat knife).

 

[Flogger23m]

HoS reminds me more and more of what happened before the OFPR release.

RO2 can't be that bad.