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Zoom ?

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#81
The key for me is customizability.

Allow people to set 3 different fovs, with 3 different mouse speeds, and allow them to select when what fov is triggered.

So people can use the arma system of the right mouse.
So people can press a seperate zoom button or whatever.

And so people can set how much they want the zooms to be apart from each other. For all I care that tweaking should happen in the ini, but its important to allow for options to tweak to ones preference (within reasonable bounds).
 
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#82
My dream would be to have face / head tracking, so moving my head closer to the monitor zooms in. This along with free look, while jogging would be pretty cool. You could jog along, not changing your trajectory, and scan the horizon zoomed in easily. All you need is a webcam now (with FaceTrack noIR). At least to me, that would make it less clunky.
 
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#83
Mormegil said:
My dream would be to have face / head tracking, so moving my head closer to the monitor zooms in. This along with free look, while jogging would be pretty cool. You could jog along, not changing your trajectory, and scan the horizon zoomed in easily. All you need is a webcam now (with FaceTrack noIR). At least to me, that would make it less clunky.
Click to expand...

Moving your head closer already zooms you in effectively. It should actually zoom you out when moving your head closer :p.

When a person appears 100 meters away when you sit at 1m distance to your monitor, he will appear as roughly 50 meters away at 0.5m distance to your monitor. Moving double as close to your monitor should like double the fov of your monitor.

As in the end everything is a projection on your monitor instead of the monitor being like a real window. Moving closer to the window similarly should give you a bigger fov. In a way similar to jonny lee's wii mote.
 
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#84
Ignoring the actual zoom levels/FOV, one of the things that annoys me is that when you zoom in, you also zoom into the sights.

Zooming in on the background makes sense for reasons mentioned above (and doesn't for other reasons). But one thing that annoys me is that you zoom into the gun more. When you zoom in a lot, your face would essentially be inside of the gun (depends on the gun). It makes the sights look abnormally big as well when zoomed. ArmA 2 has this effect to and it is rather annoying.

I am guessing this will remain unchanged in the final release though.
 
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#86
Zetsumei said:
Moving your head closer already zooms you in effectively. It should actually zoom you out when moving your head closer :p.

When a person appears 100 meters away when you sit at 1m distance to your monitor, he will appear as roughly 50 meters away at 0.5m distance to your monitor. Moving double as close to your monitor should like double the fov of your monitor.

As in the end everything is a projection on your monitor instead of the monitor being like a real window. Moving closer to the window similarly should give you a bigger fov. In a way similar to jonny lee's wii mote.
Click to expand...

While that's true, and would look cool, it wouldn't help when it comes to controlling the zoom that we know is going to be in.
 
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#88
I myself don't find zoom all that appealing, but Zets, I want to address the issue of not being able to see enemies that see you because they can zoom and you can't.

That is based on the assumption that your eyes are always focused on the horizon, now I dunno about you, but even when my eyes are looking towards the horizon, my "attention eyes" are looking at the ground, where I'm running/walking.
I think of zooming as actually looking at the building in the distance and your eyes focusing on them, even though you've been looking at them, my attention was else where.

This might not be true for that rifleman in the window, while you were sprinting across a field, taking in the battlefield. This guy's attention has been on the field ahead of the building, he was looking down sights scanning for targets. (and he won't notice much else) That is what I feel zoom is, and while I don't like it, I feel its the only way to sub for the bridge between reality and the digital world.

I know its already been said, but I wanted to say it in my own little way I guess. :eek:
 
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#89
LemoN said:
I think ArmA handles it pretty well.

Hold RMB = zoom
Click RMB = ironsights

That means Click RMB once to go into ironsights and then click and hold to zoom in.

I think that's the best way to do it, only problem being people who don't like toggle iron-sights.
Click to expand...

I also like the ArmA system, it's one of the few easy things to do in that game :p
 
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#91
Ossius said:
I myself don't find zoom all that appealing, but Zets, I want to address the issue of not being able to see enemies that see you because they can zoom and you can't.

That is based on the assumption that your eyes are always focused on the horizon, now I dunno about you, but even when my eyes are looking towards the horizon, my "attention eyes" are looking at the ground, where I'm running/walking.
I think of zooming as actually looking at the building in the distance and your eyes focusing on them, even though you've been looking at them, my attention was else where.

This might not be true for that rifleman in the window, while you were sprinting across a field, taking in the battlefield. This guy's attention has been on the field ahead of the building, he was looking down sights scanning for targets. (and he won't notice much else) That is what I feel zoom is, and while I don't like it, I feel its the only way to sub for the bridge between reality and the digital world.

I know its already been said, but I wanted to say it in my own little way I guess. :eek:
Click to expand...

Thing is you should be able to make an active decision where you look. You can easily run while focusing at something in the distance due to your head moving and having headbob it aint as easy as when standing still but you can easily do it. While not a fan of it if you actively at all times choose when to zoom then at least you control things yourself.

You might run into an lantern post while doing it, but often when walking or running you look out for possible dangers like the ground where you can trip. If there are possible enemies trying to shoot you, to me i'd more likely try to keep an eye at the horizon or looking at the position where i want to go. You can get an understanding of the terrain for you feet while only using your peripheral vision you don't have to actively focus on it if its still light.

There are loads of factors that make it more difficult to focus on the distance while for instance running. And all of those factors can be embedded within a game such as slight headbobs or even some motion blur. Beside the biggest difference that when moving in game your imagery moves making it harder to spot things.

One thing however that doesn't change is the size of objects, or zoom. So i'd rather have the ability to zoom or unzoom in every stance and have full control over where i want to "focus". While simply making it harder to see things while running just as it is harder to do in real life.
 
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#93
Flogger23m said:
Ignoring the actual zoom levels/FOV, one of the things that annoys me is that when you zoom in, you also zoom into the sights.

Zooming in on the background makes sense for reasons mentioned above (and doesn't for other reasons). But one thing that annoys me is that you zoom into the gun more. When you zoom in a lot, your face would essentially be inside of the gun (depends on the gun). It makes the sights look abnormally big as well when zoomed. ArmA 2 has this effect to and it is rather annoying.

I am guessing this will remain unchanged in the final release though.
Click to expand...


it's just the game's adjustment for the simple science of sight.. as humans when we focus on certain things - things on the outer edge of our field of view become blurred while what is in our focus is enhanced.

I'm glad the focus/zoom feature is being implimented... cannot stand pixel hunting in long range battles like some occasions in ROOST
 
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#94
I'd hope for an option to disable zoom on the server tbh.
It's nothing I am worried about or so but I'll give my opinion about it.

Having been in the army were shooting targets from really far was common, I've a hard time to understand how this zoom feature could fill any purpose at all except for easing the pain for those who can't stand pixel shooting. You don't get a sense of zoom in real life(at least i didnt) and shooting from long distances in real life can pretty well equal to pixel shooting at times.. hence i think the original RO had it right even if the distances might not have been correct.
 
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#95
heady89 said:
I'd hope for an option to disable zoom on the server tbh.
It's nothing I am worried about or so but I'll give my opinion about it.

Having been in the army were shooting targets from really far was common, I've a hard time to understand how this zoom feature could fill any purpose at all except for easing the pain for those who can't stand pixel shooting. You don't get a sense of zoom in real life(at least i didnt) and shooting from long distances in real life can pretty well equal to pixel shooting at times.. hence i think the original RO had it right even if the distances might not have been correct.
Click to expand...

This has been covered numerous times before.

The zoom is so a figure at 50 meters looks to be the same size as a person at 50 meters, instead of looking like 100 meters as you get in the original RO.

The wide angle view is to give you more peripheral vision. Unless everyone has 180 degree multiple monitors on their PCs, zoom will be necessary.

It would be nice if you could disable it if you have a 3 or more multiple monitor setup.
 
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#96
Zetsumei said:
When a person appears 100 meters away when you sit at 1m distance to your monitor, he will appear as roughly 50 meters away at 0.5m distance to your monitor. Moving double as close to your monitor should like double the fov of your monitor.

As in the end everything is a projection on your monitor instead of the monitor being like a real window. Moving closer to the window similarly should give you a bigger fov. In a way similar to jonny lee's wii mote.
Click to expand...

No.

Making a cropped image larger does not make the FOV larger because it doesn't increase the amount of the image revealed. All it does is increase the size of the image.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view_in_video_games#Image_scaling_methods[/URL]

Going by the above definition "Field of view in video games is the extent of the observable game world that is seen at any given moment."

Hor43.jpg


250px-Hor169.jpg


Larger FOV bottom
 
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#98
heady89 said:
I'd hope for an option to disable zoom on the server tbh.
It's nothing I am worried about or so but I'll give my opinion about it.

Having been in the army were shooting targets from really far was common, I've a hard time to understand how this zoom feature could fill any purpose at all except for easing the pain for those who can't stand pixel shooting. You don't get a sense of zoom in real life(at least i didnt) and shooting from long distances in real life can pretty well equal to pixel shooting at times.. hence i think the original RO had it right even if the distances might not have been correct.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right.
However the best point to show the true unrealistic nature of RO1 is in one of the achievements. Alan said that only 6% or something of the players achieved the marksman achievement, which is only 200 or 400 meters (I don't remember which it was). This was the main sign ofr TWI to consider implementing zoom.
AFAIK 300 meters is the general sighting range on iron sights as 'normal'.
Seeing only a fraction of players even manage to get a kill on 200 yards, that really kills the immersion for me.

I loved the no-zoom of RO1 at first (like the first month). However, now I am slightly better at handling bolt-action guns my engagement range increased to pixel hunting. And I just really hate to pixel hunt an enemy, which in reality would not even be at 200 meters. Also I bring my head like 5 cm to the screen to be able to make out the helmet/pixel of the enemy. Also I haven't got the achievement yet which suggests it wasn't even 200 meters!

Although I get the argument that zoom isn't realistic and I completely agree (I don't zoom in magically when I focus on something), however that is not that important compared to not being able to see an enemy which you would clearly be able to see irl.

The most realistic thing would be to have the zoom standard (FOV of 45 or something), however than people would complain about not seeing the enemy approach from the side (which of course irl you can clearly see with 180 degrees fov).

So I think it is the perfect solution to an inherent video game / pc monitor fov problem

(maybe see it from another perspective. You are not zooming in when you aim down the sight. You zoom out when not aiming down the sight...)

edit: I hope my message is clear, I am not that good at long posts
 
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#100
VariousNames said:
No.
Making a cropped image larger does not make the FOV larger because it doesn't increase the amount of the image revealed. All it does is increase the size of the image.
Click to expand...

Learn to read, before bothering to reply.

Everybody can quote something out of context and then disprove it. You happen to do it so often that I started to think that you do it just to piss people off.

Of course increasing the size of an image doesn't change the fov the image was captured at. That wasn't the discussion and it wasn't what I said either.

I see that you continuously try to put certain words into people their mouths, usually by taking a bit of text and then quoting and disproving it, in a situation completely out of context.

Read the posts you reply to or do not reply at all, everybody can make a mistake or two and misunderstand the meaning of a post. But you seem to make a profession out of it. Sorry for my response, but you seriously got to change that habit of yours.

----------------

My post was about the possible implementation of head tracking.

When you move closer to your screen, your screen takes a bigger amount of your eyes field of vision with the same image, effectively making things look bigger.

To compensate for making things look bigger and make objects at 50m ingame always appear to be at 50 meters distance in real life. You could compensate the in game fov based on the distance to your screen.

http://youtu.be/Jd3-eiid-Uw?t=3m35s
 
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