How about adding pak guns that are usuable to the maps with tanks. Maybe even for a twist hook them up to the back of a jeep (facing backwards) so the jeep driver can take it into position, turn around and place the gun, then maybe or maybe not drop the pak gun so it can be used in that position or leave it hooked to the jeep but implement some placement system were the player need to stop and lock the pak gun to the ground and unlock the pak gun before leaving again. This would combat people switching between driver and gun on the fly, with a 3 second or so wait between parking and shooting.
Will there be AT Guns? (Merged a gazillion times)
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Hmmm... imagine a PAK-gun, in-game, towable by light vehicles, semi-stationary (towable), deployable everywhere (except in xxx radius of spawn)...
Now if that is possible, and executed as plan... That would be shocking for every other WW2 game out there.
It would kill every other game with stationary guns
Now if that is possible, and executed as plan... That would be shocking for every other WW2 game out there.
It would kill every other game with stationary guns
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![[TW]DrGuppy](/data/avatars/s/0/171.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
Forgotten Hope for BF1942 has something similar for one of their halftracks. It's a halftrack with a flak88 on the back. The driver simply moves to a good spot, presses the deploy key, then switches to the deployed 88. Only thing bad about this is the unrealistic manner of instantly switching to the 88. For RO:O this could be fixed with a get-out and get-in animation for the vehicle/gun.
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I'd love to know if PAK guns might be a serious possibility in ROOF, at least eventually? Any chance at all of ever seeing them in game as usable, fully functional entities like tanks?
This is one thing I really, really, really would love to see! Really!! I think it's one of the few things that are missing in RO now.
Perhaps even maybe a designated class to operate them, although I don't think it would be necessary. You can press use, and then you get the gun's sights for direct fire. Or heck, maybe even be able to use them as light artillery. Like have HE and AP rounds.
That would be the coolest! Like the German PAK40, PAK38 and whatever the Russian gun was called.
Huh?? What would you guys say?? Even just as static emplacements.
I think it would be great as in a map with tanks attacking an AT fortified position with carnage ensuing. Also hidden in concealment for tank/infantry ambush.
This is one thing I really, really, really would love to see! Really!! I think it's one of the few things that are missing in RO now.
Perhaps even maybe a designated class to operate them, although I don't think it would be necessary. You can press use, and then you get the gun's sights for direct fire. Or heck, maybe even be able to use them as light artillery. Like have HE and AP rounds.
That would be the coolest! Like the German PAK40, PAK38 and whatever the Russian gun was called.
Huh?? What would you guys say?? Even just as static emplacements.
I think it would be great as in a map with tanks attacking an AT fortified position with carnage ensuing. Also hidden in concealment for tank/infantry ambush.
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Nyu said:
The only problem with "mannable" 88's is that it would take half your team to man it properly. Take a look at any picture of an 88's in action.
Even a small Pak35/36 "doorknocker" takes a few guys just to move around and lug ammo, etc.
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Thanks for the quick reply, Dingbat. Good points. Again, I'm only coming at this from a strictly player POV, I don't have any knowledge of programming or anything.DingBat said:
I agree about the 88s , since they were manpower intensive(I know this from pictures!). But wouldn't your points also apply to tanks? It takes 5 people(?) to efficiently operate most tanks depicted in game. However this is toned down for playability's sake. Couldnt we have a similar system for PAKs?
I would say something where you have only fixed AT positions in a map at certain locations. Like the static models we have now, but usable. The idea of moveable AT guns is a good one, but for the future maybe, as I think it would be a bit difficult to implement correctly.
My idea would be have a fixed AT gun, and the gun has two "roles" Gunner and Loader, just like on tanks. It could have an icon on the left perhaps, like the tanks do, showing the roles. If you're the Gunner, you would see the optic device or whatever the sights were on that particular piece, so you could take aim and fire. If your a Loader, you would see, from a kneeling down position, the breech of the gun and an animation would see you grabing a round, loading it into the smoking chamber and locking the breech. Now that I think about it, I guess the Loader would also have to be the Gunner, i.e the guy who actually fires the gun, while the first guy just aims.
The "Aimer"(for lack of a technical term: Gunner? Fire director?) could have a NumPad command "Fire!" and the Loader/Gunner could fire the gun when the "Aimer" has a tank in his sights and yells this command.
Imagine the coolness of being a Landser moving through your AT position and hearing "Feur!" BOOM!!!
Sorry, I don't know the Russian equivalent (though I'm sure it sounds awful).
Infact, you might even implement 3 roles: "Aimer"(guy who uses the sights) "Loader" and "Firer"(Does my knowledge of militaristic terms astound you?).
But that might be too much. I think 2 is enough.
The gun would be usable by one person switching between roles(like tanks). The advantage to having 2(or 3) people at a gun would be the gun can traverse with more than one person, while with only one person it is fixed in one position.
For example: By default, your gun's sights are fixed onto a crossroad where enemy tanks have to cross. If you operate the gun by yourself, you cannot move from this point. But if you have another soldier at the gun, you can traverse the gun's aim a bit more in case the enemy diverts a bit from the road. This gives the effect of having a crew actually moving the weapon. *Edit* Or one guy can just operate it fully, whatever works. But it would be faster with two.
I don't know too much about AT guns/artillery, so I'm not sure if some had a traverse mechanism aside from physically moving the whole gun(I mean just the smaller guns, like the PAK36, or 40 even).
Anyway, just a thought. I got the idea from a screenie of WW2 Online showing the optic sights of some AT gun and thought how cool it would be if they were in RO.
Heres a few shots I have of a PAK40 in use and it looks like it doesn't take anymore than 2 people to actually operate it.(I'm sure it took more to actually get it there, though). Something like this is what I have in mind. Just static positions.
I have another one of a PAK40 in Normandy that also shows only 2 crew members using it, but I can't find it.
Cheers!
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I notice the staff quickly killed the idea due to crew numbers...
But stationary guns could easily be loaded and fired with one man in-game.
I think its worth it the "crew" numbers debate dosnt really affect games.
But stationary guns could easily be loaded and fired with one man in-game.
I think its worth it the "crew" numbers debate dosnt really affect games.
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This seems like something that belongs in a game supporting a few hundred players at a time. The only way this would work well is if we had massive maps with high player counts(be it bot or human controlled).
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TheBeagle said:
You know, that's possibly the first reasonable solution to the "gun crew" problem I've seen...not the greatest, but still...
There's always the issue of AT guns requiring more that one person to reasonably operate, and its always either been skirted with "let one person do everything!" or "lets have an AI bot do it!" The first is too unrealistic for RO's scope, while the second is simply too cumbersome and buggy to work well with today's technology.
However, giving the loader the firing button finally gives them a reason to sit there otherwise doing nothing. Also, it makes a possible "one-man" crew more realistic, since technically one soldier could operate a light AT gun, but switching between the various positions to work it all would simulate the inefficiency of it rather well. It would be like the "one-man" tanks right now...you can get shots off, but you're going to be a hell of a lot slower than a full crew.
It would certainly help in making defensive works in RO more realistic. It would also make defensive objectives quite interesting...Moscow Highway comes to mind...
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What about 1 person using the gun but having 3 positions. 1 spot moves the gun from left to right, one moves the gun up and down (adjusting the range) and the last person shoots.
Now this could be with 3 teammates however they might work againsts eachother. Could be possible and would need playtesting to see. But unlike tanks one person should be able to operate it since everything is soo close together.
first idea( the more sim like one)
More Detail:
Keeping in mind I dont know how pak guns work. However my idea would have 3 positions on the gun. Each one could be used by 1 person and it wouldnt be unrealistic since its not like your moving around inside a tank, your out in the open.
Gunner: The gunners job its to shoot the gun and nothing else. Maybe give them an adjustable sighting that needs to be focused and the range needs to be found. Basically you rotate the sight using whatever keys until it comes into focus. Once its in focus you have found the range (say the sight has numbers all around the edge and once its focused the number on the bottem edge is the range).
Left and Right movement: Then switch to another position. This position just moves the barrel left and right. They would also be looking through the site so they know there the gun is looking. They can use the same system as the tank for adjusting your view. One view is the sight and another is you looking with your head up.
Range movement: This person moves the barrel up and down to set the range. This would have three views. 1. There looking down the gunsight 2. There looking at the target with there heads up and 3. there looking at something that marks the range. Say a dial on the side that says at this height the shell goes this far. This links it up to the range finder for the gunner. However that wouldnt take whether the gun or tank is at a different height. So there is still some skill in there.
Now all these movement sounds long but in the game would be very fast but not to fast. If it was 3 peolpe they all talking it could be done very quickly the gunner just needs to keep telling the the range adjuster what to set the gun at. It would also make the gun hard enough to use so that is cant own the battlefield but still be inflict a ton of damage if used right.
Second Idea: (going less sim like)
This idea has two positions, gunner and movement. Gunner has changed from above.
Gunner: The gunners job its to shoot the gun and nothing else. Maybe give them an adjustable sighting that needs to be focused and the range needs to be found. Basically you rotate the sight using whatever keys until it comes into focus. Once its in focus you have found the range (say the sight has numbers all around the edge and once its focused the number on the bottem edge is the range).
Right, left, range adjusters: This means that this person would be moving the gun into the right position. Now just to keep teh arcade factor down the movement would be done with your player movement keys not the mouse and you cant do left right and range at the same time. So you adjust the left and right movement then you adjust the range of the gun but its all done by the same person. This person will still get 3 views. 1. Looking down the sight, 2. there heads up looking at the target and 3. the range meters so they know how far the shells will go.
This is more of a streamlined way of using the gun and seems (to me atleast) no more unrealistic then the 2 man russian tank.
For me the big selling point here is teh range finder. I think that adds something for the gunner to do besides shooting and makes the team work together. However to make people use that you would need to find a way to adjust the guns range without making it to easy to hit targets without using the rnage finder. Has anyone here player Silent Hunter (sub sim game) when you use the deck gun you have the range already and can raise or lower the gun but you cant tell you're doing it. The gun doenst appear to move but you range meter on the side does.
Now this could be with 3 teammates however they might work againsts eachother. Could be possible and would need playtesting to see. But unlike tanks one person should be able to operate it since everything is soo close together.
first idea( the more sim like one)
More Detail:
Keeping in mind I dont know how pak guns work. However my idea would have 3 positions on the gun. Each one could be used by 1 person and it wouldnt be unrealistic since its not like your moving around inside a tank, your out in the open.
Gunner: The gunners job its to shoot the gun and nothing else. Maybe give them an adjustable sighting that needs to be focused and the range needs to be found. Basically you rotate the sight using whatever keys until it comes into focus. Once its in focus you have found the range (say the sight has numbers all around the edge and once its focused the number on the bottem edge is the range).
Left and Right movement: Then switch to another position. This position just moves the barrel left and right. They would also be looking through the site so they know there the gun is looking. They can use the same system as the tank for adjusting your view. One view is the sight and another is you looking with your head up.
Range movement: This person moves the barrel up and down to set the range. This would have three views. 1. There looking down the gunsight 2. There looking at the target with there heads up and 3. there looking at something that marks the range. Say a dial on the side that says at this height the shell goes this far. This links it up to the range finder for the gunner. However that wouldnt take whether the gun or tank is at a different height. So there is still some skill in there.
Now all these movement sounds long but in the game would be very fast but not to fast. If it was 3 peolpe they all talking it could be done very quickly the gunner just needs to keep telling the the range adjuster what to set the gun at. It would also make the gun hard enough to use so that is cant own the battlefield but still be inflict a ton of damage if used right.
Second Idea: (going less sim like)
This idea has two positions, gunner and movement. Gunner has changed from above.
Gunner: The gunners job its to shoot the gun and nothing else. Maybe give them an adjustable sighting that needs to be focused and the range needs to be found. Basically you rotate the sight using whatever keys until it comes into focus. Once its in focus you have found the range (say the sight has numbers all around the edge and once its focused the number on the bottem edge is the range).
Right, left, range adjusters: This means that this person would be moving the gun into the right position. Now just to keep teh arcade factor down the movement would be done with your player movement keys not the mouse and you cant do left right and range at the same time. So you adjust the left and right movement then you adjust the range of the gun but its all done by the same person. This person will still get 3 views. 1. Looking down the sight, 2. there heads up looking at the target and 3. the range meters so they know how far the shells will go.
This is more of a streamlined way of using the gun and seems (to me atleast) no more unrealistic then the 2 man russian tank.
For me the big selling point here is teh range finder. I think that adds something for the gunner to do besides shooting and makes the team work together. However to make people use that you would need to find a way to adjust the guns range without making it to easy to hit targets without using the rnage finder. Has anyone here player Silent Hunter (sub sim game) when you use the deck gun you have the range already and can raise or lower the gun but you cant tell you're doing it. The gun doenst appear to move but you range meter on the side does.
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What i've always been a fan of, and would like to see for at least Tanks (and maybe MG's) is some AI 'dummies' or pets, who follow you around in the case of a mg, or just sit in the tank in the unused position, like Loader/Radio-op. The same thing could apply for AT guns, with the loader and any other crew being represented by AI guys, who hide behind the shield, but can be killed by small arms and grenades.
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