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To everyone complaining about the zoom being unrealistic

the whole thing with ads is wrong in ro2 and was also in ro1 and in 90% of other games.
the point is if you look down the sights in real life, you see the peephole and you look through it like a big hole, just like in the 1st picture in this thread.
the peephole has way bigger popertions when you ads than in hip mode.
its because you get your eye very close to it and it seems to grow bigger.
when you see the ads view in ro2 or ro1, you see that the propotions never change, so you have not a realistic view through the iron sights because your head dont get near to the sights but instead the whole screen just zooms in (ro2) and you have everything just bigger but not in a realistic porportion to each other.

just take a look at this picture of real iron sights view on a m1 garand :

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=50557

thats exactly how i see through garand sights when i fire at firing rage, do you see where the problems are in most video games?

this is the porportion you see when you look ads, it is exactly the same with every weapon, the thing wich is closer to you grows much bigger instead of having just a zoom to make everything bigger.
it should have realistic views through the iron sights.
most games including ro 1 and ro2 are just raising the gun into the middle and in case of ro2 it just zooms in the whole screen but never get the rifle near to your eye to make you able to realisticly aim down the sights.
it zooms the whole weapon and this is wrong.


so why is it so difficult to simple make a realistic view through the sights?
when your head gets nearer to the sights you could also have some zoom to simulate a focus but it is rather annoying to talk about pro or cons for zoom when you cant have a realistic view through the sights anyway.
 
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Hi,

I'm sorry...but NO! The extra zoom (hitting shift) is not very realistic. The little ADS Zoom however is (like in RO1). I always liked RO1 because the didn't have an overdone zoom like so many shooters do.
I'm playing Airsoft and when I'm aiming at a person who's far away I'm just as well pixelhunting as I would do in RO without the Shift-Zoom.
However I use it in RO2 because everybody does and so I'd be disadvantaged if I wouldn't. But that's a feature I'd like to have excluded.

Erm, RO1 didn't have any zoom when using the iron-sights.

The DH mod did though, if that's what you meant?

Either way, the ADS-zoom is perfectly fine by me but the extra shift-zoom is pretty ridiculous. I wish I had that ability when perving over women's tits at 200m, that way my girlfriend might not be so suspicious.
 
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The problem with the sprint key zoom is that it doesn't feel particulary realistic, even if the logic behind it is. I guess it's how you can controll it with a key press that makes it feel more like a scope zoom than your eyes focusing. As soon as you start walking it snaps back which also feels pretty weird.

And why is there a slight delay when you exit the zoom until you can zoom back in? If it's supposed to simulate eyes focusing it doesnt make much sense.

Bottomline is that the mechanics of it doesn't feel much natural at all, even if the reasoning behind it is correct..
 
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Erm, RO1 didn't have any zoom when using the iron-sights.

The DH mod did though, if that's what you meant?

Yes, I was mostly playing DH. Actually I never noticed normal RO did not have this... freaky

The problem with the sprint key zoom is that it doesn't feel particulary realistic, even if the logic behind it is.

I don't find it at all realistic. It's the same stuff First Person Shooters are using for years (normally second mouse button). RO was one of the few games to strictly exclude it in order to create a realism feel. So, now it's back in there which just makes it more casual if you ask me...
 
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If zoom is so "realistic", it should be on permanantly.

Since the zoom advocates don't like using the term, "Super Magic Zooming Bionic Eyes" (no really it's realistic), I think the anti-zoom guys should discard their "Super Magic Zooming Out Bionic Eyes".

Don't be retarded. Then you won't have any peripheral vision and it will be a bunch of people running around with a 30 degree field of view trying to find each other.

We're dealing with limitations here. There is no fix all.
 
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Don't be retarded. Then you won't have any peripheral vision and it will be a bunch of people running around with a 30 degree field of view trying to find each other.

We're dealing with limitations here. There is no fix all.

LOL, so you base all your arguments on realism when you say "zoom is more realistic", but shoot down everyone who says FOV toggling is unrealistic. What do you think people who don't like the zoom have been saying all this time? FOV TOGGLING IS UNREALISTIC. Your eyes don't do it.

So which is it? Can't you even see the duplicity in your own statements?
 
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LOL, so you base all your arguments on realism when you say "zoom is more realistic", but shoot down everyone who says FOV toggling is unrealistic. What do you think people who don't like the zoom have been saying all this time? FOV TOGGLING IS UNREALISTIC. Your eyes don't do it.

So which is it? Can't you even see the duplicity in your own statements?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic

So trying to overcome a basic hardware limitation (i.e. limited resolution + ~20" 2D surface to project images into) through a simple mechanic (FOV switching) in order to more accurately represent what the real human eye sees (Full FOV + High-resolution details) is both retarded and not realistic?

There are goddamn hardware limitations they have to work around. It IS more realistic to be able to alter the FOV of the flat surface in front of you so that you can accomplish things that your real human eyes can.

It's NOT realistic to be locked into a zoomed-out view that doesn't allow me to pick out details at a distance, and it's NOT realistic to have a 1:1 scale while peering through a 20" window with no peripheral vision. You have to accommodate.

When they do full virtual reality holograms, I'll be pissed if there is a zoom feature. Until then, I'm quite pleased that I have the tools at my disposal to accomplish something I could do easily in real life.
 
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogichttp://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic

So trying to overcome a basic hardware limitation (i.e. limited resolution + ~20" 2D surface to project images into) through a simple mechanic (FOV switching) in order to more accurately represent what the real human eye sees (Full FOV + High-resolution details) is both retarded and not realistic?

There are goddamn hardware limitations they have to work around. It IS more realistic to be able to alter the FOV of the flat surface in front of you so that you can accomplish things that your real human eyes can.

It's NOT realistic to be locked into a zoomed-out view that doesn't allow me to pick out details at a distance, and it's NOT realistic to have a 1:1 scale while peering through a 20" window with no peripheral vision. You have to accommodate.

When they do full virtual reality holograms, I'll be pissed if there is a zoom feature. Until then, I'm quite pleased that I have the tools at my disposal to accomplish something I could do easily in real life.

It's NOT realistic for your eyes to constantly zoom in and out.

From the moment you were born and opened your eyes for the first time, you've had a constant FOV. So which is the more fundamental realism? A constant FOV or an artifact of computer monitor limitations that can easily be ignored?
 
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Read the thread. It represents focusing. Because our eyes won't focus on the 3D terrain in-game, the screen has to zoom to show us what we would be able to see in real life. It's just like focusing on a particular area. Your eyes adjust for that distance and everything else blurs. The computer can't model this, so the zoom is the compromise it has to make.
Absolutely wrong.
When your eyes focus on something on the distance, you lose focus on things not in your central 20 degree vision cone. But things do not become bigger and your FOV does not decrease. You still see everything around you, except that the focus is on something farther away. And Depth blur, which this game has, can simulate that perfectly. All they need to do, is to add a progressive blur to distant objects which is pierced through when aiming down the sights.
ACOG zoom is not the solution.

0801ba1.jpg




This is an example from Stalker, a game from 2007. It uses depth blur to make distant object unfocused and the same technology is used in RO2, however only for the blurring of foreground objects when aiming down the sights. If they would apply this on the distant objects too unless aiming down the sights, then the problem would be solved.
 
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LOL, so you base all your arguments on realism when you say "zoom is more realistic", but shoot down everyone who says FOV toggling is unrealistic. What do you think people who don't like the zoom have been saying all this time? FOV TOGGLING IS UNREALISTIC. Your eyes don't do it.

So which is it? Can't you even see the duplicity in your own statements?


I should better not feed the troll but:

What is more realistic?
Having both options, an realistic field of view and a realistic image of distances in the game or just one of them.
You can't have both at the same time admittedly, because nobody has a huge circular 150
 
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It's NOT realistic for your eyes to constantly zoom in and out.

From the moment you were born and opened your eyes for the first time, you've had a constant FOV. So which is the more fundamental realism? A constant FOV or an artifact of computer monitor limitations that can easily be ignored?

No, your real human eyes CAN'T zoom, because they are ALWAYS projecting at a 1:1 scale.

Your computer monitor HAS to zoom to accurately project a 1:1 scale.

Why is this so hard for you to get your head around?

No, my real human eyes don't zoom, but I also don't have trouble picking out a man sized, or even head sized object at 150m. I also have an almost 180 degree FOV.

Computers CAN'T do this. At MAX you can get a 90 degree FOV, and even then it distorts everything. Not only that, when it's projecting at it's 70-90 degree FOV, resolution limitations prevent it from accurately showing details at a distance.

Therefore, in order to provide the player with the same information that their real human eyes would be able to pick up while working within the limited confines of a computer monitor, they have given us the ability to change our FOV as the situation calls for it so that we have the full advantage of our real human sight in the confines of a video game.

Of course, you don't care about this, and your next post is going to be the same "WELL MY EYES CAN'T ZOOM THEREFORE IT'S UNREALISTIC". Not even sure why I bother.
 
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No, my real human eyes don't zoom, but I also don't have trouble picking out a man sized, or even head sized object at 150m. I also have an almost 180 degree FOV.

I think I get your point now... You're basically saying that hitting shift makes you just focus a part of the screen in the size you would be seeing it in real life?

Ok, but even then it strange to hit a key in order to achieve this effect. It feels real Terminator-like. I'd rather be pixelhunting again... this is how we're used to perceive a virtual real-world simulation. I was pretty okay with that.
 
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No, your real human eyes CAN'T zoom, because they are ALWAYS projecting at a 1:1 scale.

Your computer monitor HAS to zoom to accurately project a 1:1 scale.

Why is this so hard for you to get your head around?

No, my real human eyes don't zoom, but I also don't have trouble picking out a man sized, or even head sized object at 150m. I also have an almost 180 degree FOV.

Computers CAN'T do this. At MAX you can get a 90 degree FOV, and even then it distorts everything. Not only that, when it's projecting at it's 70-90 degree FOV, resolution limitations prevent it from accurately showing details at a distance.

Therefore, in order to provide the player with the same information that their real human eyes would be able to pick up while working within the limited confines of a computer monitor, they have given us the ability to change our FOV as the situation calls for it so that we have the full advantage of our real human sight in the confines of a video game.

Of course, you don't care about this, and your next post is going to be the same "WELL MY EYES CAN'T ZOOM THEREFORE IT'S UNREALISTIC". Not even sure why I bother.

No, the greater realism that's being violated here is that your eyes don't zoom. Period. There's not one person who's eyes have ever zoomed in the history of mankind without using augmentation. That's a *FACT*.

So please don't call it "realism" when you can press a little button to make your eyes zoom in and out.
 
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I think I get your point now... You're basically saying that hitting shift makes you just focus a part of the screen in the size you would be seeing it in real life?

Ok, but even then it strange to hit a key in order to achieve this effect. It feels real Terminator-like. I'd rather be pixelhunting again... this is how we're used to perceive a virtual real-world simulation. I was pretty okay with that.

See? This is my point. If Josef Nader hadn't pointed that out, MacX wouldn't have even known there was a problem. But MacX instinctively knows that his eyes don't zoom and experiences a feeling of unnaturalness.

A constant FOV has been ingrained in our brains and compensating for some computer limitation for "realism's" sake only violates a greater realism we all know instinctively.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
 
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It's simple! Yes it is counter intuitive, but think of it this way. The default view you get when playing is ZOOMED OUT compared to normal vision, everything appears smaller than they should. Your view is scaled down to fit on your screen, because in real life, when you look around your field of view is so much larger than what's depicted on your screen.

So when you hit SHIFT to ZOOM IN, you're simply seeing things as you should have all along, in terms of the scale of objects in real life. So even though it seems like you're doing something the human eye cannot do, namely zoom, you're really not zooming, you're seeing the scale of objects as they would appear in real life, but sacrifice peripheral vision which you would have otherwise.

The only way you can have it both ways and to truly simulate real life would be to do something none of us can really do, and that's have a GIANT screen that simulates a human being's entire field of view.
 
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See? This is my point. If Josef Nader hadn't pointed that out, MacX wouldn't have even known there was a problem. But MacX instinctively knows that his eyes don't zoom and experiences a feeling of unnaturalness.

A constant FOV has been ingrained in our brains and compensating for some computer limitation for "realism's" sake only violates a greater realism we all know instinctively.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

Can't tell if troll...

Or just retarded...
 
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