The katana and AK feedback and questions thread.
- Thread starter Krieg Jaeger
- Start date
I don't understand; why do you say the katana is fast as if the chainsaw is slow? It's not slow. In fact, it's faster than the katana attack speed wise, it just doesn't whip all over your screen when you hold down the button. Go to the trader. Click on the katana, and then click on the chainsaw. They have the same power, but the speed on the chainsaw is way higher.
And fun is in the eye of the beholder, I find the chainsaw to be very fun, and that chainsaw sound is music to my ears. It's hard to talk about what you find fun and annoying when talking about a good weapon, because everybody's opinion will vary.
But as far as facts go, you say the Katana is fast, powerful and fun. We can't persuade each other about fun. But the chainsaw is faster, with the same power.
Not to say I "hate" berserkers that use the Katana like some other people in this thread have professed
I'm all for people using whatever makes em happy, this is a video game afterall. I just think looking for the most efficient killing tool, the chainsaw wins, with the Katana having circumstantial wins with the extra run speed. But if you find the Katana more fun/less annoying, you're certainly entitled to use it.Attachments
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Not to try and pimp my own topic here, but check out my berserker guide in the Tactics forum. I've got some decent Katana information and strategies there that might help out newbie zerks or zerks that don't quite understand teamplay.
I might add a Katana vs. Chainsaw section to the General Tactics post (since that is the shortest one and I tend to run into "you can't have more than 30000 characters per post" error in that topic). For now, here's a breakdown from my experiences with both so far:
Comparison of the Chainsaw vs. the Katana
Primary fire-
The chainsaw's Primary fire does about as much damage "per swing" as machete alt fire swings. However, it hits with the speed of a bullpup on full auto. It's fantastic for clearing out large groups of low health specimens such as Clots, Stalkers, or Gorefasts that tend to run up on you. Also, there is no better method for consistently decapitating fleshpounds than with chainsaw primary fire.
The katana's primary fire does about as much damage as a fire axe swing. This is more damage "per swing" than the chainsaw. However, the swing speed is slower. It swings about as fast as the knife. It is good for taking down large specimens quickly when many swings in rapid succession are applied, or smaller specimens when there is room to move around. The primary fire of the katana can stunlock scrakes unlike the chainsaws.
Alt fire-
The chainsaw's alt fire has a fast recharge time, and can instantly be canceled into a primary fire animation by hitting primary fire as soon as the damage is dealt from the overhead swing. This swing does a considerable amount of damage; it's close to what the fire axe alt fire is capable of. Fantastic move for stunning scrakes.
The katana's alt fire has a longer recharge time and cannot be canceled into a primary fire. However, it does more damage than the chainsaw alt fires from what I've seen. It is fantastic for decapitating specimens when you are on the offensive (or defensive by allowing them to come to you). As a supporter of hit and run tactics, lead in with the alt fire and finish the specimen off with primary fire swings if the alt fire did not kill them.
Range-
The chainsaw's range is slightly longer than the machete, but shorter than the katana or the fire axe. You need to get in most specimens "danger zone" to land a blow with the chainsaw.
The katana's range is a bit longer than the chainsaw, but slightly shorter than the fire axe. This can come in very handy when pre loading alt fires when making a charge or when fending off a charge. You can stay out of many specimens "danger zones" when attacking them with the katana.
Run speed-
The chainsaw slows your run speed considerably when wielded. A rank 5 berserker runs as fast as any other perk with their primary weapons out (save for those using LAW's, Hunting shotguns, or crossbows).
The katana conveys the same run speed as the knife. A rank 5 berserker will move exceptionally fast with a katana wielded.
Cost-
Both the katana and the chainsaw cost the same amount to a berserker. Rank 5 berserkers get the benefit of spawning with a chainsaw, so I suppose the point could go to the chainsaw in this comparison.
Overall-
Overall, they're both very effective weapons. Personally, I think the katana should weigh just a bit more to prevent other perks from getting a katana in addition to all their other weapons. However, this could lead to a decrease in the run speed when one is wielded which would take away its strongest feature.
I want to say it's a draw when it comes down to which is "better". They're both effective in their respective situations, and I think too many of you are complaining about it too soon because it's in such wide use at the moment. Give it a few months, and the "OMG NEW WEAPON" craze will peter out. On a side note, however, I do want to say that I think the katana is a higher "skill" weapon than the chainsaw, as the users timing has to be more on the spot than a chainsaw user who can just hold down Mouse 1 and jiggle his view around a bit when faced with a large crowd.
I might add a Katana vs. Chainsaw section to the General Tactics post (since that is the shortest one and I tend to run into "you can't have more than 30000 characters per post" error in that topic). For now, here's a breakdown from my experiences with both so far:
Comparison of the Chainsaw vs. the Katana
Primary fire-
The chainsaw's Primary fire does about as much damage "per swing" as machete alt fire swings. However, it hits with the speed of a bullpup on full auto. It's fantastic for clearing out large groups of low health specimens such as Clots, Stalkers, or Gorefasts that tend to run up on you. Also, there is no better method for consistently decapitating fleshpounds than with chainsaw primary fire.
The katana's primary fire does about as much damage as a fire axe swing. This is more damage "per swing" than the chainsaw. However, the swing speed is slower. It swings about as fast as the knife. It is good for taking down large specimens quickly when many swings in rapid succession are applied, or smaller specimens when there is room to move around. The primary fire of the katana can stunlock scrakes unlike the chainsaws.
Alt fire-
The chainsaw's alt fire has a fast recharge time, and can instantly be canceled into a primary fire animation by hitting primary fire as soon as the damage is dealt from the overhead swing. This swing does a considerable amount of damage; it's close to what the fire axe alt fire is capable of. Fantastic move for stunning scrakes.
The katana's alt fire has a longer recharge time and cannot be canceled into a primary fire. However, it does more damage than the chainsaw alt fires from what I've seen. It is fantastic for decapitating specimens when you are on the offensive (or defensive by allowing them to come to you). As a supporter of hit and run tactics, lead in with the alt fire and finish the specimen off with primary fire swings if the alt fire did not kill them.
Range-
The chainsaw's range is slightly longer than the machete, but shorter than the katana or the fire axe. You need to get in most specimens "danger zone" to land a blow with the chainsaw.
The katana's range is a bit longer than the chainsaw, but slightly shorter than the fire axe. This can come in very handy when pre loading alt fires when making a charge or when fending off a charge. You can stay out of many specimens "danger zones" when attacking them with the katana.
Run speed-
The chainsaw slows your run speed considerably when wielded. A rank 5 berserker runs as fast as any other perk with their primary weapons out (save for those using LAW's, Hunting shotguns, or crossbows).
The katana conveys the same run speed as the knife. A rank 5 berserker will move exceptionally fast with a katana wielded.
Cost-
Both the katana and the chainsaw cost the same amount to a berserker. Rank 5 berserkers get the benefit of spawning with a chainsaw, so I suppose the point could go to the chainsaw in this comparison.
Overall-
Overall, they're both very effective weapons. Personally, I think the katana should weigh just a bit more to prevent other perks from getting a katana in addition to all their other weapons. However, this could lead to a decrease in the run speed when one is wielded which would take away its strongest feature.
I want to say it's a draw when it comes down to which is "better". They're both effective in their respective situations, and I think too many of you are complaining about it too soon because it's in such wide use at the moment. Give it a few months, and the "OMG NEW WEAPON" craze will peter out. On a side note, however, I do want to say that I think the katana is a higher "skill" weapon than the chainsaw, as the users timing has to be more on the spot than a chainsaw user who can just hold down Mouse 1 and jiggle his view around a bit when faced with a large crowd.
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You're completely right, but doesn't this mean that the Chainsaw's alt fire does a better job that the Katana's Primary fire? This would mean that if the alt fire turns out to not be stronger for the Katana, then the chainsaw is of more use in combat
I agree, though I think the Chainsaw is better, simply because when you tally these situations up, the desired Chainsaw situations occur a lot more than the Katana's situations.
Only when they: repeat me; agree with me, when they're trying to disagree; try to disprove fact; contradict themselves. Not that the post carried out all of the above.Looks like someone is having a hard time accepting someone else's opinion.
Just The contradiction was what bothered me about it.
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It's dead-on with what I'm trying to say too, but folks don't listen or outright refuse to accept it...
If you're a Berserker with any ranged weapon and the Katana, you'd almost always be better off as that ranged weapon perk and a Katana (Sharpshooter with Crossbow/Katana instead of zerker, Commando with AK/Katana instead of zerker, ect).
And if you're running up to enemies to attack them, like I keep saying, all you're really doing is slowing potential DPS by forcing yourself to run up to enemies instead of simply shooting them... Folks that complain that they never get any kills with the 'Slow' chainsaw are running into this head-on: If you're not getting any kills with the chainsaw because enemies are killed in the distance, you would likely be better off giving it up and joining your ranged companions!
The Chainsaw is made for areas where the enemies absolutely WILL get in your face and melee is needed simply to hold them back so the team doesn't wipe. And in that situation, I don't care what anyone tries to say, the Chainsaw makes the Katana look like a glorified Combat Knife! For all it's 'mobile melee' nonsense, the Katana is upstaged at it's role by a simple ranged weapon, as shown by how many kills a teammate can get before you even GET CLOSE to the enemies...
And, for those of you who play on Friendly Fire servers can probably attest: The Katana is like a stupid helment for 'Zerkers in most cases. They'll try to use it's speed to run up to anything and engage it. In most cases this is annoying and blocks ranged fire/messes up shots/generally obscures vision. But in Friendly Fire servers, this is known specifically as 'Failzerking' and will get you TK'd... And no one seems to realize that they act like a nublet who just bought the game when they get that sword...
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So long as some of us see the light, others will hopefully follow suit.
Don't get me wrong, the Katana is great for those very very very sparse Situations as a zerker or for any other Perk. I just wish people would begin to consider/believe it. The Chainsaw should remain the Zerker's weapon of choice, should a Zerker be any use in the current situation.
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Saw, Katana, saw, katana, its all preference.
If I have a saw, I'll pick up as a secondary
If I have Katana, I'll pick up a bullpup(its full auto is the same as a saws primary fire if you need to decap those FPs) and a handcannon(s) for the crawlers and sirens
I tend to use the first set up since I feel more comfortable with that, but as I practice with the second, its becoming more fun to use.
If I have a saw, I'll pick up as a secondary
If I have Katana, I'll pick up a bullpup(its full auto is the same as a saws primary fire if you need to decap those FPs) and a handcannon(s) for the crawlers and sirens
I tend to use the first set up since I feel more comfortable with that, but as I practice with the second, its becoming more fun to use.
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I can hold a line just fine with the katana, and it isn't as annoying to use as the chainsaw. Which melee weapon is better all comes down to personal preference in the end.
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I get that alot on KF forums. Could be a generation thing (i am an old school gamer i guess).Looks like someone is having a hard time accepting someone else's opinion.
Feel the need to reply to Sammers, even though I probably should not (you cant really "win" on forums - he and I should probably just agree that we disagree).
OMG Sammers....
You are seeing everything so black and white. There is no gray-zone for you at all? You can't accept that other players have other play styles and enjoy different parts of the game and/or are more efficient with other play styles?
Frist of all. I think that chainsaw is a viable berserker weapon. Here we both agree. Fair enough.
I also think that that Katana is a viable berserker weapon. Here you do not agree. In my post I tried to paint you a picture (several actually) where Katana is a better weapon than the Chainsaw. I also mentioned situations where Chainsaw is the better weapon. They are both viable.
To make it a bit complicated i also think that Katana is viable with a array of backup weapons (and on some maps not a backup weapon at all - if you are good enough with the Katana).
Chainsaw + Katana is one of them viable options.
Chainsaw + <insert random ranged weapon> is another viable option. This does not make Chainsaw + Katana a less viable option at all.
It just open up two different play styles that have different uses at different maps. You see - I try to be open minded and present options. There is no real right or wrong here. Different options - different playstyles. Thats all.
For example, I personaly think Chainsaw + Katana is a stronger combo for the Office map when things go bad and your party dies around you than Chainsaw + <insert random ranged weapon>.
Reason for this is because I think Chainsaw is better when you and your team is holding your ground (at, for example, the staircase in the middle floor). In this situation you do not want to shift out of Chainsaw to kill a stray crawler or siren. Your party will do this for you while you *stay with chainsaw* so you can block stuff that your team members do not kill... Now, IF things go bad - and they all die - you are solo trying to finish 120 zombies on office (it happends). holding your ground will no longer be an option. Kiting around the map, hit-'n-run-style will be the way to go. Yes you can do this with Knife (and chainsaw+<insert random ranged weapon>), but Katana will be so much more powerful in this new scenario. There are so many corners that you will not need a ranged weapon to kill crawlers, you will, however, need to kill stray zombies on the way while you kite around with the zerg behind you.
I am not saying this is the only option you have on a map like Office. I am saying this is an option you have. A playstyle that works for me (and can work for others - not including you obviously).
I have valid reasons just like this for all the weapon combos I listed.
Now, specific points.
Math. If Chainsaw is twice as strong as Katana (it isnt) for a non-berserker. It will still be twice as strong for a level 5 berserker. Higher perk level will not change the ratio. At all. From your post I am not sure if you agreed that the ratio would stay the same (if you do, then we are on the same page and you can ignore this one).
Then there is the claim that chainsaw is stronger than the katana. Is it? How do you know...? It might be, it might not be - I would, however, not go as far as stating it as fact until you have numbers or testing that back you up. Until then, Katana might actually deal more damage per second than chainsaw do...
The Katana+Xbow is a combo where the Katana is your primary weapon and the Xbow with 40 bolts a backup weapon for taking out crawlers and sirens that are behind opponents. A sharpshooter with this combo will not work out as well as a berserker with this combo as the sharpshooter will have to swing twice to kill gorefasts (or use a power strike) and it will take him more than twice as long to kill scrakes with the Katana. He also have no running speed buff and can - and will - be grabbed by clots. A sharpshooter using Katana as a primary weapon will simply be swarmed and killed as he swing slower, run slower and deal less damage per swing. Sharpshooters ARE better of using pistols as main weapon to kill stuff at range (including crawlers) and xbow for taking out scrake, siren at long range, fleshpound and patriarch (not crawlers). As I see it, a sharpshooter have no need to ever use a Katana. I cant believe that you suggest that sharpshooters should use this combo (but if you can give me valid reasons why it would be a viable combo I will of course consider it).
Yes, as I also repeated chainsaw only strength. To compare the two. Again, I am not against using Chainsaw. It is a powerful weapon. I am, however, against people that cant seem to understand that other people can use Katana *as an alternative* to the chainsaw as Katana too is a powerful weapon.
No. I mentioned that with a Katana you *can* kill single sirens and crawlers that does not swarm you without taking damage on open maps that let you move and plan your attacks. You can not do this with the chainsaw (as easy as you do with a Katana) so it might open up a play style that not everyone might be familiar with. It take a bit of skill to do it with a Katana. Some players would like to run with a melee weapon and never use a ranged backup weapon. I say Katana make it viable, even on an open map.
Of course you don't need a Katana to play a berserker. You can play a berserker with Chainsaw+<insert random ranged weapon> instead. I never said chainsaw was obsolete. But I *am* saying that you *can* play a berserker *without* using chainsaw as well. Or even use *both* chainsaw and Katana. They are all viable options. Nothing right or wrong. Just different play styles. They have strengths and weaknesses that play out different in different situations and on different maps. Appeal to different people. Think outside the box please.
With Katana I argue that you do. Unless you are a master at one-attack-decap fleshpounds. This is a weakness of the Katana - or a strength of the Chainsaw (high enough attackrate to decap fps that are after you - didnt i post this when i compared the two?). So - you use the high attackrate of the bullpup to decap fleshpounds that target you and handcannon to kill crawlers that are behind single line of zombies (as it's bullets have a slight level of penetration). You can skip handcannons and only use bullpup (or AK47) but i like to kill crawlers with handcannon as they die from one hit to the body.
It is in the eye of the beholder. Some people, including you, like the sound. Others do not (and welcome the Katana being silent). It is a valid argument why some people, not you, like Katana over Chainsaw.
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I am talking about the play style.
Katana play with a faster tempo. You hit n run. In and out. Zoom back n fourth over the battle field. One-shot killing everything (well - except scrakes and fleshpounds), including sirens and bloats. It is a powerful experience. The fast movement is also a play style that most (not all though) find to be very fun.
The Chainsaw play with a slower tempo. You are less mobile. Instead of hit 'n run you act as a meat grinder that you let zombies walk into. Everything that walk up to you dies almost instantly (well - except scrakes and fleshpounds maybe). It is a powerful experience. But you will also need to accept that ranged perks will spend ammo for no reason and kill stuff that would have died once they hit your powerful meat grinder. Some players think this is less fun.
There are more berserkers playing now and most I've talked to enjoy the playstyle that Katana offer them more than the playstyle they had with Chainsaw. It might be the FOTM-styndrome, but from personal experience I too think Katana is more fun to play around with than chainsaw...
Chainsaw is, however, still going strong - it is even more efficient than Katana in some situations (such as when you and your team hold position at a doorway or staircase - think bioticslab or office or if you want to decapitate a fleshpound that have you as target).
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Ah. So not really "fast" but more "light weight".
I've always seen Berserker as more of a defensive role that holds the line and soaks the damage, and that's what the chainsaw is suited for. I guess that's because I feel the Berserker is the only class that CAN play defensively and therefore SHOULD.
I guess that is bigger issue, really. It's not about the Katana or the Chainsaw. I just dislike the mobile kind of playstyle for the Berserker because I don't see how it's an asset to the team.
Here's how I see it, and this is strictly my opinion and I know some will disagree (and that's okay!): A Katana berserker whips all over the screen and kills stuff they come in contact with. Neat. Any of the other classes (minus medic) could've done the same thing from ranged. Until we're fast enough to move from group to group in the time it takes a ranged class to move their mouse and aim, they'll be better at it. What the other classes CANT do that the berserker can, is hold a line and soak damage. That is unique to the Berserker, and therefore the strength of the class. We should play to our strengths. Since we're the only ones on the team that can do it, we're obligated to do it to maximize our team's effectiveness. The chainsaw is the best tool for this job.
Then again I guess that really just depends on what map you're playing, and your team. No need to hold a line on a wide open map, I suppose. I just sigh when I see a Berserker try to ineffectively hold a line with a Katana when the chainsaw would make their lives much easier, they just can't get over their Katana anime-watching fanboyism. To people that do this, go watch your Nagotus and your Dragon's Ballz and stop getting my team killed D:
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Yowch, this topic turned into a wall of text fiesta.
When it all boils down, no matter how much people complain; compare and contrast; embrace the two weapons (chainsaw and katana)... both weapons are about even in terms of their strengths/weaknesses. TWI did a good job of balancing everything out.
Every single issue in here (except the one brought up about the katana's weight. I definitely think the weight should be at least 4 blocks) that compares the katana to the chainsaw is a moot point.
Like I said, give it time and the bad berserkers will fizzle out and the good ones will shine. The weapons still have that "new car" smell to them right now and everyone wants to use them over the old models.
When it all boils down, no matter how much people complain; compare and contrast; embrace the two weapons (chainsaw and katana)... both weapons are about even in terms of their strengths/weaknesses. TWI did a good job of balancing everything out.
Every single issue in here (except the one brought up about the katana's weight. I definitely think the weight should be at least 4 blocks) that compares the katana to the chainsaw is a moot point.
Like I said, give it time and the bad berserkers will fizzle out and the good ones will shine. The weapons still have that "new car" smell to them right now and everyone wants to use them over the old models.
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I too, feel the need to reply, but for the sake of others, I'll shorten mine wherever possible and only reply to the parts that I feel need addressing.
Not at all, it's perfectly viable, in the same sense that the Machete is a perfectly viable weapon. What I'm putting accross is; why bother? There's already a better weapon that you're guaranteed to be able to buy if you can buy a Katana.
Teams tend to not plan on dying. Dying is often due to poor planning or sometimes just plain bad luck. Nothing that you can forsee.
I've always said the same, but those tactics tend to never be as effective.
Don't use it then. Or select a perk where either the bullpup or Handcannons become more effective. The Katana will remain just as useful for the weaker enemies and still stun Scrakes without you having to be a Beserker.
Any class can make good use of a Katana. It leaves enough space for a primary weapon, while giving a power close enough to the Chainsaw to be considered at all useful. Beserker however, can afford to spare the weight for a Chainsaw, since it will be their primary weapon, so they should opt for that.
Yeah, just like how with Dual HandCannons you *can* kill single Sirens and Crawlers that don't swarm you , without taking damage on open maps that let you move and plan your attacks.....right?......right?
Why? There are already ideas inside the box that are working far better than any already suggested outside it. Why not suggest to a politician that he should carry out a speech, while wearing a giant pink Top-Hat because it might make people think the Politician is a funny person? Sticking to what you know will work, is often the simplest and best solution.
PERFECTLY explains my argument in a better way than I could; the Katana can be made highly effective outside of Beserker perk, so Beserker should stick to what they've been best at, which is utilising the Chainsaw.
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So... I guess that there are no play styles and no maps where Katana can be as effective, or even more effective, than a Chainsaw would be? That Chainsaw is always [vastly] more effective than Katana in all situations.
Since Katana obviously is such a bad weapon (only as viable as a Machete from what I've understand) - you think that Katana is currently overpriced and should cost [much] less than the current
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What a hilarious thread. I don't think I've ever seen such discussion over minute details involving a video game before. I guess that's why I play KF...
I'm going to throw one out there: the LAW should be used as a backup weapon for support class whilst the katana serves primary. Discuss.
I'm going to throw one out there: the LAW should be used as a backup weapon for support class whilst the katana serves primary. Discuss.
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I play commando most of the time. I absolutely love the ak47, however like many other people I've found myself only using the ak47 even in scatter spraying situations. The bulpup is nice, I just don't use it often anymore. Idk. The new update is amazing, the ak47 is very balanced and a great addition to most arsenals. The katana is nice, I hate to call it overpowered because it isn't to far off of where it should be. I'd recomend on the next patch that Tripwire make the Katana 4 or 5 blocks, and more expensive, or make the speed inbetween swings a tiny bit slower as well as movement speed nerf. Too easy to swing your way through a crowd of mobs or retreat while hitting anything thats faster than you to death (crawlers, clots, bloats, scrakes). One last thing is that the Machete is completely useless, no point in wasting money on it. Just remove the weapon, melee class has 5 weapons to choose from atm so I don't think removing it will matter. Overall I'm thrilled with the heavy metal pack and hope Tripwire continues to do what they do. Peace.
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