more detailed scoreboard

[SolitarioSoldat]

Nice post, but didn't really answer my question =) . The difficult thing is to come up with the best in-game scoreboard display when KDR can be seen somewhere on a website .

Show kills but no deaths in the website scoreboard,I'll explain why:

After 5-6 months of playing the game I and some other peeps would go to EA USA or EU website and post there regarding what sort of bugs the game had.Honestly the game was filled with it,teleporting,slow loading times,lag with freeze,hitregistry where you see blood coming out but no hitmark to aknowledge it when playing on low ping servers,just in general posting regarding the problems in game.

So everytime I would of post something an idiot would of come and say something about your KDR in insulting way,I really dont care about it its just a game and a website but never know from where do they come up with the KDR number,I never knew about the stats cause I was too busy enjoing the game.

So after seeing people getting bashed for their KDR and over disscusions not irelevant to KDR,it just happened the same people bashing around on the website about someone elses KDR,but 1 dude was persistant all the time in trolling.

So I got pissed and like a little kid found out about the stats,back then I was in about 300hrs of gameplay and about 30.000 kills and fair enough there was KDR shown in stats which was 1.9.Guy who was bashing me and others had a high KDR of 3.0 350+ hrs of game play and pitifull 10.000 kills mostly done by sniper rifles,nades,grenade launcher and Rocket launcher.

So after I look at his stats I came back to the forums and told him: you poor,poor foul,you played more time than me and have 3 times less kills,I dont see any mcom defences or attacks,his scores were pitifull,but the only thing todays gamer look iven on the stats scores its the KDR,they think the KDR means everything,its mentality coming mostly from COD.I remember back in the days every player would talk smack in their servers how good of KDR he gets when playing....its a mentality that team based games gets ruined by it.

This is why Website Stats should only have kills shown,no DEATHS,or dont have both at all.

There will be lot of new comers from COD and BC2 with that KDR mentality,lets do not encourage them by giving to them in game and in stats KDR,make them play the game for the way its ment to be played,and also do give little points for kills same as in ROOST.The BF veteran players I'm not worried about,they are all about team work,they actually laugh any time someone on BC2 forums start talking KDR smack.

If KDR gets this game in any form either in game or on stats,you guys will understand what I'm trying to tell you,but by then will be too late to be removed cause TWI would not want to risk to lose the new comers.STOP THE PLAQUE BEFORE IT SPREADS!!!

Sorry for the long post again.

 

[KingLol]

Alternatively you could just avoid showing it at all and then nobody would be bragging about anything and you wouldn't give a crap about his sniper camping?

 

[[TW]schneidzekk]

Camping is a valid tactic in RO.

 

[213]

Alternatively you could just avoid showing it at all and then nobody would be bragging about anything and you wouldn't give a crap about his sniper camping?

revolutionary idea. beats a wall of text "solution"

the high score mentality needs to go away permanently.

 

[KingLol]

It's not the mentality that's going away, it's the game mechanics catering to the mentality and encouraging it!

For instance, if there are K/D stats on the scoreboard then a lot of players (including me!) will be more likely to play in a stat-buffing way than if they weren't there whether they're aware of playing differently or not.

The problem with this is that I often like to play public games to practise & improve one particular aspect of my ROskillz at a time and if my over-competitiveness is stimulated by the inclusion of K/Ds then I'll be more likely to just go for the cheap option which is bad in the long run and = less player development over time.

If you have a large chunk of people on both teams playing like this in a public server then it can really drag down the fun factor of a game.

 

[Napkin]

Camping is a valid tactic in RO.

any word on the scoreboard? I hope its more detailed

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

...come up with the best in-game scoreboard display when KDR can be seen somewhere on a website .

Show kills but no deaths in the website scoreboard...

Hmm, you didn't answer my question once more :/. I am right now only interested in what the best in-game scoreboard display is when it is possible to see Kill/Death ratio on internet. We all know how the situation is with people obsessed with KDR, so no need to mention that .

The answer then is not to not display that on the internet as that is the foundation of the question.

Why I am a little curious about this is becuase if you look att RO right now, there are at least one server that dispaly kills/deaths. I guess that this will happen more frequently in RO2, especially if there is a mutator for that for competitive just like now in RO. If RO2 becomes X bigger than RO so that realism enthusiasts really becomes a minority, then the risk is that the end result is as in INS where 95% of the servers run with kill/death stats tracking.

Based on that hypothesis and let's say it will come true, which in-game display do you think would be best?

 

[Fedorov]

Maybe the scoreboard should only show your kills/deaths etc, but not everyone else's.

 

[KingLol]

Maybe the scoreboard should only show your kills/deaths etc, but not everyone else's.

Yes, this is as far as it should ever go for public matches.

 

[SolitarioSoldat]

@Snuffeldjuret

I think KDR should be not shown at all in any aspect neither in ingame nor in online stats,when I say in any way I mean if TWI wants to show kills you made,then its fine,but do not show the deaths at all,cause all it takes for someone to divide kills with deaths and smack himself in the chest and trash talk around the forums.Once when someone start doing it,it will spread like a plaque.

I got no problem someone saying hey look my points,my capping objectives or resuplies etc etc etc,cause his claiming is viable,but KDR claiming = stat buffing it isnt,and it sux when someone tells you I own you and you know he is just a scary person shooting from spawn trying to collect kills and not get killed.This is the most famous answer when you tell someone to help you arm the M-com in BC2 "I cant I'm working on my KDR,dont want to ruin it"

In game stats:

-Show team work efficiency in 1-100%
-if TWI wants to show kills,fine do it,BUT DO NOT INCLUDE DEATHS.
-Show how many points earned that round.

 

[Sunshine]

I personally would like to see a much more detailed scoreboard than that in RO. I would like to see kills/deaths/killscore/teamscore and points per minute

I really do not want to see KDR tracked anywhere, in-game or out. If you track KDR, people are going to attempt to maximize it; that's just human nature. Look at BFBC2 commentary videos on youtube for example - the better commentators will tell you that you should be worrying about the objectives, not your KDR, but before the video is over, they will have mentioned the KDR they achieved that game. They just can't help themselves. And you'll never see them post a gameplay video where their KDR sucks, but you know they have them, because their global KDR stats (which you can see online) are nowhere near as good as what you see in their videos. Keep in mind that these are the people who understand that BFBC2 is an objective-based team game. Interestingly enough, BFBC2 does not make your personal win/loss ratio easily accessible (unless you are one of the top 1000 players on the leaderboard).

As a result, in my two weeks of playing BFBC2 rush mode I've had numerous games where a significant number of the defenders never even attempt to disarm the MCOMs, even though the only downside to dying as a defender (apart from "ruining" your KDR, that is) is that you may have to respawn a bit back if none of your squadmates are alive and/or in a good position to spawn on). Hell, I catch myself thinking "let somebody else do it, I don't want my abysmal KDR to become even worse" from time to time, and I play to win, not to stat whore.

By contrast, I've yet to play an RO game where players don't even attempt to achieve the objectives (I've had numerous games where one side or the other failed miserably to achieve anything, but that is always due to lack of coordination and/or skill, not lack of trying).

 

[Floyd]

Hmm, you didn't answer my question once more :/. I am right now only interested in what the best in-game scoreboard display is when it is possible to see Kill/Death ratio on internet. We all know how the situation is with people obsessed with KDR, so no need to mention that .

The answer then is not to not display that on the internet as that is the foundation of the question.

Why I am a little curious about this is becuase if you look att RO right now, there are at least one server that dispaly kills/deaths. I guess that this will happen more frequently in RO2, especially if there is a mutator for that for competitive just like now in RO. If RO2 becomes X bigger than RO so that realism enthusiasts really becomes a minority, then the risk is that the end result is as in INS where 95% of the servers run with kill/death stats tracking.

Based on that hypothesis and let's say it will come true, which in-game display do you think would be best?

MoH and the early CoD series (I haven't played anything COD past UO for any length of time, so I can't speak for them) had third party programs (mutator/databases if you will) written where individual servers could track all sorts of stats for players on that particular server. It was interesting to parse some of the data for gimmicks and to give awards for stuff like 'Least liked by his teammates' (given to the guy who was TK'd the most), 'Should have kept his head down award (given to the person killed by the most headshots), etc.

Anyway, point of my post....keeping player stats on individual servers probably wouldn't do anything to affect gameplay for the community as a whole. It may on that particular server but at least its not universal. If kept on league/ladder servers, it might give the elitists something to hang their e-peens on. Perhaps it would make them happy and yet keep the pubbers who really don't care to hear about it happy, too.

Personally, I hate KDR and hate Kills/min, etc. I hate anything that encourages individual rambo heroism and detracts from or discourages team effort. If sitting alone and getting but one kill to ensure victory for the team is what I have to do, then I'm happy to oblige. But if I have to listen to some stat whore tell me how great he was and how he won the game by himself, I would just as soon quit playing the game. I'd like to him win a game when there is no one left to support his sorry ***.

I know a lot of people need the ego boost or have a 'need' to measure their prowess in a game. My suggestion would be to leave that part up to Achievements in Steam. Other than that, I say leave it up to individual servers. Don't make it universal. But those are just my thoughts.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

Do you also hate score/min? becuase that with a good scoring system should be encouraging team-play, as with team play it is easier to achieve team victory which gives you score easiest.

SolitarioSoldat, everyone knows the downside of a visible kill/death so you don't have to explain why. What we do not know and should discuss is how you best deal with a situation where kill/death is visible. How do build a system around that which results in best team-work?

The answer to the question "Based on KDR being shown, what would be best?" is not "dont display KDR"
That is like answering the qestion "what is 4 times 5" with "4 + 5 = 9".

 

[Forssen]

SolitarioSoldat, everyone knows the downside of a visible kill/death so you don't have to explain why. What we do not know and should discuss is how you best deal with a situation where kill/death is visible. How do build a system around that which results in best team-work?

The answer to the question "Based on KDR being shown, what would be best?" is not "dont display KDR"
That is like answering the qestion "what is 4 times 5" with "4 + 5 = 9".

Cover it with a black box.

Snuffeldjuret, everyone knows the downside of starting a fire so you don't have to explain why. What we do not know and should discuss is how you best deal with a situation where a fire is lit. How do build a system around that which results in best extinguish?

The answer to the question "Based on a fire being lit, what would be best?" is not "dont lit it"
That is like answering the qestion "what is 4 times 5" with "4 + 5 = 9".


And down here you should write: "Cover the fire with a blanket." If not, the rest is completely pointless. Don't criticize the only solution there is even if you don't agree, find another or remain silent.

 

[Miro!]

IF K/D ratio makes it in every single scoreboard in every single mod RO2 will be featuring, then we should just think of the reward system used.

People are like dogs (ye ye its true ). They achieve things IF they have to, or IF they are rewarded to do it that way.

So, keep the Kill score to a minimum, say 1 kill = 1 point.
Reward every team action by, lets say 1 team action = 5 points like its already live @ resupplying ammo to an mg.
Reward every objective action by, lets say 1 objective capped = 20 points, 1 kill in cap zone = 5 points.
These are just examples.

Example of a score board using those points above :

Nick (status) | Global points | Objective points | Team points | Kills | Deaths | Ping
-------------------------------------------------------------
Rammjaeger (hero) | 65 | 40 | 15 | 10 | 21 | 1337

And yeah i know Ramm is not that good idd :troll:

 

[Floyd]

Do you also hate score/min? becuase that with a good scoring system should be encouraging team-play, as with team play it is easier to achieve team victory which gives you score easiest.

SolitarioSoldat, everyone knows the downside of a visible kill/death so you don't have to explain why. What we do not know and should discuss is how you best deal with a situation where kill/death is visible. How do build a system around that which results in best team-work?

The answer to the question "Based on KDR being shown, what would be best?" is not "dont display KDR"
That is like answering the qestion "what is 4 times 5" with "4 + 5 = 9".

Hmm.... what is score per minute going to give you in the way of team effort? Imo, it is just going to speed up the play of the game. I like good tactical games and don't really care (and it really shouldn't matter ,imo) if it takes right up until the last second to win or if the game is won in the first minute. But thats just my personal opinion. But there will be a countdown gametype that I imagine will speed up the game, so I could perhaps see keeping a score/min stat for that particular game.

I guess I just belong to the camp that for the out-of-the-box game the scoring and stats system should focus only on teamwork and not so much on personal stats. That said, and with the new Firefight gametype that is not objective based, personal stats might actually be 'meaningful' (to those so inclined). However, I would much prefer that the individual factions of the various camps and communities have access to the information and the tools to locally keep individual stats any way they deem appropriate and meaningful to them. I would not like to see TW do anything that takes away from the teamwork perspective of the objective based games.



And this actually happened to me last night.....I had a little spare time last night and played a little BFBC2 Vietnam. It was a conquest map and my team got pushed back to their base and were pretty well trapped there. I asked our two tankers why they wouldn't move up. One replied that he couldn't because the enemy were anihilating him at one exit and the other tanker had the only other exit blocked. I hounded the other tanker about not moving up and his response, verbatim, "If I move up I'll die. I haven't died this whole map and I'm not about to now. Deal with it." He had a K/D ration of 12/0 and a rank so high I didn't recognize it. What do you think he was doing? I quit the game....

 

[Fedorov]

And this actually happened to me last night.....I had a little spare time last night and played a little BFBC2 Vietnam. It was a conquest map and my team got pushed back to their base and were pretty well trapped there. I asked our two tankers why they wouldn't move up. One replied that he couldn't because the enemy were anihilating him at one exit and the other tanker had the only other exit blocked. I hounded the other tanker about not moving up and his response, verbatim, "If I move up I'll die. I haven't died this whole map and I'm not about to now. Deal with it." He had a K/D ration of 12/0 and a rank so high I didn't recognize it. What do you think he was doing? I quit the game....

Wow, those are some mad skillz0rz there. Hiding like a rat to fake a K/D ratio.

I really hope TWI does not encourage this. I'd like the game to keep all kind of obscure stats, like TF2, but make them private, please.

 

[OnbekendeSoldaat]

only points, because people will care about their k/d

 

[Devil_Inside]

How about showing deaths to everyone except yourself?

 

[Zetsumei]

K/D ratios do not mean a lot in territory though. In territory generally I don't care how many times a team mate dies, it matters how many enemies are cleared out of the way so our team can advance.

Someone with a K/D ratio of 10 but with only 10 total kills, is less important to me than someone with a K/D ratio of 5 with a total of 25 kills. In respawn game types quantity of kills clearly matters. Which is why rather than a K/D ratio a kills/min ratio would work better for territory or a kills/min*kill/death ratio.

K/D will suffice for countdown as there staying a live is really important, however with the strictly imposed time limits of 3-5 minutes adding in a time factorization would make it better as well.

K/D ratios make it that it is important to care for your life, K/M ratios make that it is important to kill the enemy and not only hide. Adding both together allows them to be somewhat balanced against each other.

Kills/Minute * Kills/Deaths = a rating factorization that gives a good indication of someone's shooting skill.

-------------
Note if you do not want people to focus solely on killing, you can replace kills with points. Like a point/death ratio or a points/minute ratio or a points/minute * points/deaths ratio.