In case you hadn't noticed the Announcement forums yesterday, these items are on the way. Let's raise a mug and say thanks!
Last edited:
RO2 MG42, PzIII, T70 on the way
- Thread starter Jank
- Start date
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Shi6Q1zSI
and enjoy the sound of the MG42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ptqNMGg948
Upvote
0
That was the groundbreaking hit detection system the MG42 had. If you did not hit your target, the weapon fired a few more rounds to get the job done for you. Hitler approved.
Upvote
0
actually it was computer controlled and the gunners were only their to hide that from the allied, as soon as it was captured the mini-computer destroyed itself 
Upvote
0
Wow.
An obsolete tank by 1942 (III) and a tank that was never not obsolete (T70).
I actually love not playing with the best equipment availlable. At least the panzer III was in 1942 still more common than panzer 4.
Since tripwire made the T34 better than reality I wonder how panzer 3 and T70 will do? Panzer III did destroy T34 in masses. Despite contradicting popular belief a panzer 3 in 1942 could destroy a T34 and did so.
A T70 had a 2 man crew making it in combat situations nearly useless despite being able to take down a panzer III on paper.
I cant believe that german wikipedia(Checked the armor of T70) actually classifies a T 70 an worthy opponent of a Panzer III. WTF?
it had 45mm of sloped armor which isnt bad but honestly it is the ultimate deathtrap but at least only for 2 guys...
Or am I missing something and they had a magically autoloading gun. Seriously Tank commander had to do 3 things at once?
An obsolete tank by 1942 (III) and a tank that was never not obsolete (T70).
I actually love not playing with the best equipment availlable. At least the panzer III was in 1942 still more common than panzer 4.
Since tripwire made the T34 better than reality I wonder how panzer 3 and T70 will do? Panzer III did destroy T34 in masses. Despite contradicting popular belief a panzer 3 in 1942 could destroy a T34 and did so.
A T70 had a 2 man crew making it in combat situations nearly useless despite being able to take down a panzer III on paper.
I cant believe that german wikipedia(Checked the armor of T70) actually classifies a T 70 an worthy opponent of a Panzer III. WTF?
it had 45mm of sloped armor which isnt bad but honestly it is the ultimate deathtrap but at least only for 2 guys...
Or am I missing something and they had a magically autoloading gun. Seriously Tank commander had to do 3 things at once?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Wow.
An obsolete tank by 1942 (III) and a tank that was never not obsolete (T70).
I actually love not playing with the best equipment availlable. At least the panzer III was in 1942 still more common than panzer 4.
Since tripwire made the T34 better than reality I wonder how panzer 3 and T70 will do? Panzer III did destroy T34 in masses. Despite contradicting popular belief a panzer 3 in 1942 could destroy a T34 and did so.
A T70 had a 2 man crew making it in combat situations nearly useless despite being able to take down a panzer III on paper.
I cant believe that german wikipedia(Checked the armor of T70) actually classifies a T 70 an worthy opponent of a Panzer III. WTF?
it had 45mm of sloped armor which isnt bad but honestly it is the ultimate deathtrap but at least only for 2 guys...
Or am I missing something and they had a magically autoloading gun. Seriously Tank commander had to do 3 things at once?
yes, yes,
all russian tanks were disgusting, deathtraps, and in game everything russian is OP.
please continue your wonderful stories
Upvote
0
COuld both sides please come down... i think you can't deny that the internal layout of the T-34 was... less then perfect and quite cramped that's why e.g. the T-34 was compared to other tanks a death trap because the closer the space the more likely it is that either the ammunition explodes or the Crew gets heavily injured or killed after it got penetrated by a Panzergranate 39 APHE Round, possibly the same applies to the T-70 and
seienchin you have to think about that the Panzer III was less armoured then the Panzer IV, so for me it isn't that unlikely that the T-70 could become dangerous to the Panzer III, atleast from the sides... i don'T know how much penetration it's 45mm gun had but e.g. the 57mm gun that some T-34 got equipped with was comparably more dangerous to the Tiger then the 76,2mm Gun of the other T-34... and yeah... Sovjet Tanks are disgusting they are nowhere near to be as beautiful like the Panzerkampfwagen IV, the Panther... the Tiger... and my favorite Tiger II
seienchin you have to think about that the Panzer III was less armoured then the Panzer IV, so for me it isn't that unlikely that the T-70 could become dangerous to the Panzer III, atleast from the sides... i don'T know how much penetration it's 45mm gun had but e.g. the 57mm gun that some T-34 got equipped with was comparably more dangerous to the Tiger then the 76,2mm Gun of the other T-34... and yeah... Sovjet Tanks are disgusting
they are nowhere near to be as beautiful like the Panzerkampfwagen IV, the Panther... the Tiger... and my favorite Tiger II
Upvote
0
nobody denies that tanks have their disadvantages. T34-76 disadvantage was small turret without commander, t70 disadvantage is only 2 crews.. pz3 and pz4 had square armor, thinner than t34's and less effective because its not sloped. Panther is a great tank but its too expensive, it has many things like hydraulic servo drive with steering wheel like in car which allows you to control heavy tank easilly, but it could be removed to make tank much cheaper.. also panther has extremely different armor, front is 80mm while sides are only 45 which is the same as t34 armor. So panther is hard to penetrate from front but easy to penetrate from side. There was a case at 1944 when T70 atacked 2 panters from side on the road and destroyed them. All german tanks, including heavy and even super heavy maus were with benzin engines, german armor in 1944 became disgusting and so on.
T70 disadvantages are 2 crews and small side armor. + the class of light tanks itself became more and more obsolete in 1942 and in 1943 it became completey useless in tank vs tank.
T70 advantages are: turret was only for 1 crew but it wasnt close for him; great reliability, T70 was rarely destroyed, it was often damaged but able to repair; it was small, silent and very mobile which made him perfect recon tank.
But seienchin just says that everything russian is crap and deathtrap and in game everything russian is OP to balance..
If we will look at german weapons in game, we will see that mostly german weapons are overpowered to make balance. want examples?
MKb42 that didnt exist in real life on any map that exists in the game;
germans snipers are as rare as russians while IRL they were way rarer;
Scoped G41 even with scope from future is as available for german snipers as scoped SVT for russian snipers but IRL G41 scoped was much more rare and i even didnt find enough proof in internet that scoped G41 was ever used;
G41 and german elite rifleman role are as popular as russian SVT and elite rifleman role, but IRL g41 was 10 times more rare than SVT;
MP-40 is as popular as PPSh-41 but IRL it was 4 times more rare + it has more penetration that is completley inaccurate while PPSh has much bigger recoil than in real life + mp40 unlocks prototype dual mag as fast as russian PPSh unlocks drum mag which also makes no sense.. IRL mp40/I was prototype and all sources say it was used just several times ( no info where ) and soilders didnt like it, it was heavy, completely unreliable and normal mp40 was better while drum mag was main for PPSh at Stalingrad battle + mp40/I has also inaccurate method of mag change when bolt is closed;
russians have lowpowered PTRS without better BS-41 ammo while germans have better PTRS with insane penetration 55mm, and so on..
T70 disadvantages are 2 crews and small side armor. + the class of light tanks itself became more and more obsolete in 1942 and in 1943 it became completey useless in tank vs tank.
T70 advantages are: turret was only for 1 crew but it wasnt close for him; great reliability, T70 was rarely destroyed, it was often damaged but able to repair; it was small, silent and very mobile which made him perfect recon tank.
But seienchin just says that everything russian is crap and deathtrap and in game everything russian is OP to balance..
If we will look at german weapons in game, we will see that mostly german weapons are overpowered to make balance. want examples?
MKb42 that didnt exist in real life on any map that exists in the game;
germans snipers are as rare as russians while IRL they were way rarer;
Scoped G41 even with scope from future is as available for german snipers as scoped SVT for russian snipers but IRL G41 scoped was much more rare and i even didnt find enough proof in internet that scoped G41 was ever used;
G41 and german elite rifleman role are as popular as russian SVT and elite rifleman role, but IRL g41 was 10 times more rare than SVT;
MP-40 is as popular as PPSh-41 but IRL it was 4 times more rare + it has more penetration that is completley inaccurate while PPSh has much bigger recoil than in real life + mp40 unlocks prototype dual mag as fast as russian PPSh unlocks drum mag which also makes no sense.. IRL mp40/I was prototype and all sources say it was used just several times ( no info where ) and soilders didnt like it, it was heavy, completely unreliable and normal mp40 was better while drum mag was main for PPSh at Stalingrad battle + mp40/I has also inaccurate method of mag change when bolt is closed;
russians have lowpowered PTRS without better BS-41 ammo while germans have better PTRS with insane penetration 55mm, and so on..
Upvote
0
1- T(H)ANKS TRIPWIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2-With the T70 there will be a playable driver and a playable commander-gunner-loader, wich means introduction of 1st person loader mechanics, that can be used to make the other tank loaders playable with a smaller effort.
2-With the T70 there will be a playable driver and a playable commander-gunner-loader, wich means introduction of 1st person loader mechanics, that can be used to make the other tank loaders playable with a smaller effort.
Upvote
0
Yes I was surprised at the T-70 too, it seems like absolute trash. Would have preferred the Soviets to get the KV-1, it would have made things more interesting.
As for the T-34 vs Panzer IV, I assume the Panzer IV is the F2/early G version with I believe had 50 mm of armor on the front body and turret, meaning it had a very strong turret but less strong front armor proportionally (which was still good though, specially vs T34/76 of 1942).
What's annoying is that all the other advantages of the Panzer 4 don't exist in this game because it's a game, and the gun (L/43) on the P4 seems a bit underpowered (or maybe it's just my imagination), specially since it was devastating IRL against the T34. However this is Stalingrad and the fighting is under 300m mostly, meaning that each tank penetrates the other equally well (or should) on the front hull, while the turret of the P4 is slightly tougher. The only nuisance is that the T34's rate of fire is equal to the P4's, while that obviously would not be the case because of the commander's double role and poor crew ergonomics.
The Panzer 3 (J) and 4 (F2) armor is not thinner, it's thicker. But because the T34 hull is sloped it has a greater chance of a ricochet (in reality this all disappears in Stalingrad and who shoots first usually wins). In fact, if I remember correctly a Soviet army study comparing the T34 and Panzer 3 in 1940 determined the Panzer 3 was even superior, with exception of the 37mm gun (which they noted could easily be upgraded).
As for infantry business, I wouldn't mind removing 4 MP40s from Germans (why do 2-3 engineers even get them???) and this should in turn be balanced by removing 2 MGs from the Soviets, since they had a generous shortage of those during the entire war and their doctrine was not based around that.
The MKB42 should be limited to just 1 guy in the German team, and the dual drum MP40 should never exist, maybe for a hero only. The sniper thing cannot be simulated, you would have to give Soviets advantage in manpower then on teams too, while giving them poor equipment and few ammo (Stalingrad was where the stereotype of that was most prevalent).
The AT rifles are generally exaggerated, they were terrible by 1942.
As for the T-34 vs Panzer IV, I assume the Panzer IV is the F2/early G version with I believe had 50 mm of armor on the front body and turret, meaning it had a very strong turret but less strong front armor proportionally (which was still good though, specially vs T34/76 of 1942).
What's annoying is that all the other advantages of the Panzer 4 don't exist in this game because it's a game, and the gun (L/43) on the P4 seems a bit underpowered (or maybe it's just my imagination), specially since it was devastating IRL against the T34. However this is Stalingrad and the fighting is under 300m mostly, meaning that each tank penetrates the other equally well (or should) on the front hull, while the turret of the P4 is slightly tougher. The only nuisance is that the T34's rate of fire is equal to the P4's, while that obviously would not be the case because of the commander's double role and poor crew ergonomics.
The Panzer 3 (J) and 4 (F2) armor is not thinner, it's thicker. But because the T34 hull is sloped it has a greater chance of a ricochet (in reality this all disappears in Stalingrad and who shoots first usually wins). In fact, if I remember correctly a Soviet army study comparing the T34 and Panzer 3 in 1940 determined the Panzer 3 was even superior, with exception of the 37mm gun (which they noted could easily be upgraded).
As for infantry business, I wouldn't mind removing 4 MP40s from Germans (why do 2-3 engineers even get them???) and this should in turn be balanced by removing 2 MGs from the Soviets, since they had a generous shortage of those during the entire war and their doctrine was not based around that.
The MKB42 should be limited to just 1 guy in the German team, and the dual drum MP40 should never exist, maybe for a hero only. The sniper thing cannot be simulated, you would have to give Soviets advantage in manpower then on teams too, while giving them poor equipment and few ammo (Stalingrad was where the stereotype of that was most prevalent).
The AT rifles are generally exaggerated, they were terrible by 1942.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
if they would have gotten the KV-1 i think the germans shouldn't have got the Panezr III but Rather VI... afterall the first official use of a few was near Leningrad a few weeks after the beginning of the battle of Stalingrad... small numbers but still used
and everyone else who took the class is pissed because he can't take the MkB... i can already see in-team fighting coming up...
I could imagine, considering that they don't build any defensives and carry a bunch of explosives with them that they are Sturmpioniere, assault pioneers which e.g. were tasked with taking out fortifications... so they would have to get close (ingame e.g when taking care of one of those pesky T34s that just stand there and cut down everything in front of them and the AT rifles can't do anything from the sides) in which case the Kar98 would be quite useless and if the german engineers get their SMGs taken please the Russians too... and i could see how much quicker Apartments ends if the Russians get such an advantage in SMGs
and for the dual mag... i could see some people (including me) getting pissed that they unlocked it first and after an update can't use it anymore because they are not high enough to become a hero... if we have the luck to become the hero...
still good enough to make the Upgrades with Sch
Last edited:
Upvote
0
don't have to tell me... that's so fn annoying...
for the engineers: if ya take the SMGs away, then give them a nice Flamethrower afaik there were quite man in use in stalingrad... by the germans...
for the Sch
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
tell me please, how reload speed is connected to commander?
They didnt.
Germany produced 476K mg34 + 408K mg42, while USSr produced 700-800K DP-27 + i dont know how many maxim HMGs, but its obvious that maxims werent rare.
Againt, MKb42 didnt exist IRL in those places which exist in RO2 exept late maps like rakowice or barashka. If someone will create maps of Kholm pocket or Leningrad siege 43-44 - but now these maps dont exist.
why sniper thing cant be simulated? ah yes, it should be more rare than 1 per team for germans. Well it can be at least 1 per team unlike russian 2 per team + remove scoped G41 + remove 6x SVT for russians since it was extremely rare.
what do you mean by manpower? reinforcements? ask mappers to set historically accurate reinforcements. it is not hard to read how many soilders had each side on some battle and set same numbers on the map in game.
This wont make anything better from any point of view - balance or historical accuracy. First, if you want to simulate number of ammo per soilder and quality of equipment, you should do this individually for every map because it was different everywhere, also depends on period. For example, on the late Stalingrad battle maps GERMANS must have few ammo and poor equipment.
the role of AT rifles is exaggerated, the german AT rifle is completely exaggerated, Russian AT rifle is not exaggerated and actually its very lowpowerd especially when there werent troop transports because russians dont get better ammo and enemy doesnt have light tanks but only medium pz4.
Also, At rifles were useful through all the war as anti material, anti bunker, anti-german-sniper-in-cover, light vehicles like sdkfz251, etc.
Upvote
0
Dude calm down. A IS2 was obviously not a death trap. Its design was flawed (2 piece ammo and nearly every WW2 tank had design flaws) but the tank itself was not a death trap or poorly desgned.
What people dont get is the beauty of the russian designs. I call it bad sometimes to be provoking I know but the efficiency of it is just STUNNING.
Many just try to imitate what the enemy is doing and the panther might be very well considered to be an improved copy on the T34 tanking design thoughts but the russians did not copy their enemy to produce the best tank possible but did their own thing which was based on their production possiblites and the strength and weaknesses of the russian army.
Russia had little trained tank personal and a lack of specialists in optics. On the other hand they had a lot of materials and very good and many production sites.
Producing things like the T70 is NOT dumb or strange it is ingenious. The russians used tank factiories they couldnt produce T34s and KVs in to produce the T70 and a few T80s later which were not good tanks 1:1 but they had good armor and theoretically a potent gun. Good armor meaning that the tank could stay longer in battle allthough the crew, which had less training than their german counterparts, needed more time to shoot or get an overview over the battle.
As someone who studied economy this just fascinats me. The russians overcame their weaknesses by maximizing production. Of course in one on one battle german panzer armies defeated the soviets time and again but it could have been so much worse if the russians would have made the T34 in a more confortable tank with better sights and larger to have more space for a commander or had radio in every tank, when in reality they just couldnt produce so many radios.
I admire russian tank design for beeing extremly foccused and effective given the assets they had but you just cant say things like T-70 or T-34 where good tanks just looking at the tanks itself. They didnt have the focus on maximized performance and comfort. It was NEVER(!) the focus of the russians.
By the way if you like to critisize me further: I dont look down on the red army. They did stunning things and as written above where very economical intelligent. I also think the russian army was way superior to the german forces in 1945 by equipment, moral and experience. I would just like to stop people believing 70 year old propaganda. You might argue the T34 is a better tank than for example Panzer 4 based on production, speed and sloped armor but you cant say it is more comfortable or it had better sights. You also cant argue against the HUGE T34 losses. Deal with it.
i would actually like to hear your opinion on the T-70 if it is so radically different from mine? Maybe you can mythbust me
I would like to learn if there is something to learn. Was the T-70 a good tank on its own or in its role?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Agreed on your post on weapons.tell me please, how reload speed is connected to commander?
the role of AT rifles is exaggerated, the german AT rifle is completely exaggerated, Russian AT rifle is not exaggerated and actually its very lowpowerd especially when there werent troop transports because russians dont get better ammo and enemy doesnt have light tanks but only medium pz4.
Also, At rifles were useful through all the war as anti material, anti bunker, anti-german-sniper-in-cover, light vehicles like sdkfz251, etc.
HOWEVER,
You know why reload speed is connected to commander in the T76. It had a 4 man crew and a 2 man turret.
A 3 man turret design enables the commander to spot targets, the guy at the gun to aim and the reloader to reload the gun fast.
Now think about the T34. No matter how you pull it of you need someone to do 2 tasks at once. Spotting and aiming are impossible to do both at the same time so spotting and reloading needs to be done by the same person meaning you loose overview while reloading and it slows things down a lot. Even worse when combined with poor sights and bad obstructed view.
German panzerb
Upvote
0
tell me please, how reload speed is connected to commander?
The commander both has to command and load the gun. This double task lowers the rate of fire significantly, amongst other things. So couple the lower crew number with terrible crew compartment ergonomics and comfort, turret design etc and you got yourself a lower RoF on it.
The Soviet Union produced about 795,000 of ALL Degtaryov machinegun series variants (including RP-46) well into the 1950s. They had massive machinegun shortages by accounts in WW2. And not just that, but their doctrine simply wasn't based around the machinegunner.
And the Maxim gun is not suited at all for the LMG role, try carrying it around. It was used in defensive static roles only, seen on the maps right now.
Kholm pocket was in February 1942 mate. I think we can assume a few dozen found their way into Stalingrad 6 months later.
It should be like 1 German sniper for about 3-5 Soviets then, and the Soviets should all have crap training and a less accurate gun with crappy scope (no, they were not all Vasilli Zaitsev). Cannot be simulated in a fun way. Besides, snipers concentrations were different throughout Stalingrad, some areas might have lots of German snipers dominating it, while in others there are none.
Too complicated and needless, specially for a game, it's why I said it.
Yes few ammo and food, try simulating that.
The Russian rifle is not lowpowered, the German rifle is overpowered. Unless you have jeeps and low armored cars, AT rifles should not really do much.
Upvote
0