How about adding the DShK for the Soviets? Another stationary MG that performs better than the Maxim?
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RO2 MG42, PzIII, T70 on the way
- Thread starter Jank
- Start date
Depends on when in the war you refer.
Read the following (well researched) pages on German and Soviet Platoon/Squads from 1939 to 1944:
German: [url]http://www.avalanchepress.com/BehindCounters.php[/URL]
German Page2: [url]http://www.avalanchepress.com/BehindCounters2.php[/URL]
Soviet: [url]http://www.avalanchepress.com/BehindCounters3.php[/URL]
As the article states, when on paper each Soviet platoon had 3-4 LMGs, in reality it was far less. While German Platoons always had either a MG-34 or MG-42 per squad, plus every squad member carried extra ammo for the MG. Soviets had serious ammo shortage problems for their LMG's and AT rifles as typically only the assistant gunner carried ammo.
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i remember, i have read some memories of german soilders and he was saying that they had only 1 mg34 on the company. I will try to find it if i really read it.
what i see on the third link is some game description
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I think we are forgetting that ALL WW2 TANKS were deathtraps. No climate control, exhaust regularly filled the crew area, and they were consistently getting stuck everywhere. That was to be expected, seeing as how Tank Warfare was relatively new.
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Yes. Every Grenadier Squad (9 men) was organized into two fire teams - one Rifle Team (4Rifle+Squad Leader) and one MG (2Rifle+2Crew).
Panzer Grenadier Squads had 2!! MGs per Squad (of 9 as well), broken into two separate fireteams with one MG in each. That's a LOT of firepower.
These are the unit organizations for midwar period (1942-1944) where, after, the VolksGrenadier companies were introduced. The VolksGrenadier platoons consisted of 1 MG per 3 Squads, as opposed to the old formation of 1-2 per squad, but every Rifleman was intended to have an SMG or an Assault Rifle. In reality, it didn't work out that way
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OSS film: The German Infantry Squad In Action:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz0a_QGifPM" target="_blank">WW2: O.S.S. The German Infantry Squad in Action - A Demonstration of minor field Tactics (1944) - YouTube
tldr: 9 men: two fireteams of 3 rifles, one 3-man MG team.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz0a_QGifPM" target="_blank">WW2: O.S.S. The German Infantry Squad in Action - A Demonstration of minor field Tactics (1944) - YouTube
tldr: 9 men: two fireteams of 3 rifles, one 3-man MG team.
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I have seen this; it is quite informative
I find myself wondering though - how did they produce the bullet hits near the Soldiers in some of the scenes? Were they actually using "Movie Production" techniques which would be new to the world at the time? Or were they actually shooting
o) - in any case it certainly seems cool.
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@aaz
UMG can and is mostly used as LMG. The DP cannot be used as anything but an LMG, and the Maxim cannot be used as anything but an HMG. If you look at field machineguns in LMG role, you will find Germans had proportionally more, and produced more in absolute numbers too. The shortages of MGs throughout the war for Soviets were very real, but they adapted partially through use of the PPSH. And no, the Maxim guns are not understated, they cannot be used in any other role than ingame. Unless you wish to say the Soviets produced hundreds of thousands of Maxims from 1910 to make up for the deficit, which considering all accounts I highly doubt.
To put it most simply, a German platoon in the war will have more machinegunners, specially in LMG role, than a Soviet one.
As for the http://www.wio.ru/galgrnd/sniper/sniper.htm link, most of that list is bogus and exaggerated. The very first guy already, Surkov, has a figure fabricated by Soviet propaganda, and a lot of the rest is very unreliable. The Soviets had a different system of claiming killls too, for the Germans I believe there had to be two other people present or an officer to confirm a kill. No such thing for Soviets.
Also, I think he presented ample evidence in that thread of German sniper superiority, both scope, rifle and training in general.
UMG can and is mostly used as LMG. The DP cannot be used as anything but an LMG, and the Maxim cannot be used as anything but an HMG. If you look at field machineguns in LMG role, you will find Germans had proportionally more, and produced more in absolute numbers too. The shortages of MGs throughout the war for Soviets were very real, but they adapted partially through use of the PPSH. And no, the Maxim guns are not understated, they cannot be used in any other role than ingame. Unless you wish to say the Soviets produced hundreds of thousands of Maxims from 1910 to make up for the deficit, which considering all accounts I highly doubt.
To put it most simply, a German platoon in the war will have more machinegunners, specially in LMG role, than a Soviet one.
As for the http://www.wio.ru/galgrnd/sniper/sniper.htm link, most of that list is bogus and exaggerated. The very first guy already, Surkov, has a figure fabricated by Soviet propaganda, and a lot of the rest is very unreliable. The Soviets had a different system of claiming killls too, for the Germans I believe there had to be two other people present or an officer to confirm a kill. No such thing for Soviets.
Also, I think he presented ample evidence in that thread of German sniper superiority, both scope, rifle and training in general.
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That all doesnt change the fact that direct comparison of numbers of german UMGs with russian LMGs makes no sense. Why do you write it?
LOL
are you serious?
HMGs are just several (0-5 ) things on the whole map, they cant be destroyed/moved/respawned, this is 100% correct?
sorry but you are just wrong.
oh cool.
everything what you said and all your sources are also fabricated and nazi propaganda, deal with it.
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Wow. All these new vehicles they have added are all easy kills for the PTRS. PTRS IRL, were effective against these tanks. anything beyond like the p4 were trickier to disable. Anything above the Panzer 4 tier is pure fantasy. Please tripwire, make AT penetration number correct. I want this class to be the hardest in the game. It already is but i want it even harder (thats what she said). Right now, the whole tank/AT stuff is pure fantasy, not realistic. If Team Fortress 2 had a penetration system, it would be way more accurate what RO2 has now. Not trying to be mean tho but its true. I have been asking for this fix ever since this game was released in 2011 and still nothing.
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That is a game where it takes more than one direct hit from a HEAT rocket to kill a human :I
So, I dunno about that.
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Reasonable enough critique, Seienchin.
But....
Once again, however, we have a thread that is straying into Godwin's law territory. They always bloody do... It seems like you guys just can't help yourselves. I guess one of the protagonists having an 88 in his forum name should have tipped everyone off. AAZ - you're just as bad.
So polite request please to AAz, S88, all the other people who, to put it mildly, tend to wear their sympathies on their sleeve: cut it out... I just cannot bear to open another thread and see you guys snarling at each other.
You both seem like intelligent people so you should hopefully, in rare moments of self-awareness, realise that this endless sniping is completely pointless. It's like saying "I define my entire internet existence on the basis of my arbitrary preference for the House of York in the War of the Roses. And I am going to tirelessly seek out any of those Lancastrian bastards I see on the interwebs and let the world know what dicks they are. If I see a Lancastrian post somewhere about his totally biased preference for the type of longsword they used, I will slam the f***er with a ream of data about how York steel was superior. And the interwebs shall behold that I am a) a totally dispassionate and balanced observer and b) far superior to those Lancastrian scumbags".
It really is just like that, reading you going at each other.
Just once, I'd like to see a thread which stays on topic for more than 10 posts before getting derailed by this pointless BS.
The whole point (eventually) of the IS2 thread was to parody this earnest but totally misplaced fanaticism.
So, get a :IS2: all of you.
Rant over - as you were.
But....
Once again, however, we have a thread that is straying into Godwin's law territory. They always bloody do... It seems like you guys just can't help yourselves. I guess one of the protagonists having an 88 in his forum name should have tipped everyone off. AAZ - you're just as bad.
So polite request please to AAz, S88, all the other people who, to put it mildly, tend to wear their sympathies on their sleeve: cut it out... I just cannot bear to open another thread and see you guys snarling at each other.
You both seem like intelligent people so you should hopefully, in rare moments of self-awareness, realise that this endless sniping is completely pointless. It's like saying "I define my entire internet existence on the basis of my arbitrary preference for the House of York in the War of the Roses. And I am going to tirelessly seek out any of those Lancastrian bastards I see on the interwebs and let the world know what dicks they are. If I see a Lancastrian post somewhere about his totally biased preference for the type of longsword they used, I will slam the f***er with a ream of data about how York steel was superior. And the interwebs shall behold that I am a) a totally dispassionate and balanced observer and b) far superior to those Lancastrian scumbags".
It really is just like that, reading you going at each other.
Just once, I'd like to see a thread which stays on topic for more than 10 posts before getting derailed by this pointless BS.
The whole point (eventually) of the IS2 thread was to parody this earnest but totally misplaced fanaticism.
So, get a :IS2: all of you.
Rant over - as you were.
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I think you are misjudging me but anyway, its tripwires forum and you are right derailing threads is against the rules.
The 88 is the year I was born. I am as left wing as you can get so I have NO sympathy for nazis or whatever. Your sudden atacking at us two with strange accusations doesnt help in any way, too. You might say you are just as bad Your forum name is even worse... (And he was born in 1888... What a funny coincidence.)
I try to get back to the real core of the thread:
I am very exited about the new additions. I hope the MG42 indicates later war maps and the Panzer III earlier war maps allthough he was still the main battle tank at stalingrad. :IS2:
Or do you think they upgrade maps that are already there like the addition of the infantry carriers in rakovice? Replacing the T34 on Bridges would be a really nice addition I think. They could make D and E not recapable to balance it though. The Tank on bridges is too powerful but atacking D and E is too hard at the moment.
The 88 is the year I was born. I am as left wing as you can get so I have NO sympathy for nazis or whatever. Your sudden atacking at us two with strange accusations doesnt help in any way, too. You might say you are just as bad
Your forum name is even worse... (And he was born in 1888... What a funny coincidence.)I try to get back to the real core of the thread:
I am very exited about the new additions. I hope the MG42 indicates later war maps and the Panzer III earlier war maps allthough he was still the main battle tank at stalingrad. :IS2:
Or do you think they upgrade maps that are already there like the addition of the infantry carriers in rakovice? Replacing the T34 on Bridges would be a really nice addition I think. They could make D and E not recapable to balance it though. The Tank on bridges is too powerful but atacking D and E is too hard at the moment.
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I think in terms of authenticity it is a good step forward. The Germans will now have access to more Machine Gun choices than the Russians, while the Russians maintain an additional SMG - which is what these Armies' doctrines encouraged at the time of Stalingrad. To me, it seems like Tripwire is intending to slowly make the Germans and Russians as different as their Japanese and Americans
I am wondering how the Panzer III and T70 will square off against eachother. Obviously their vulnerability to Infantry AT will change that aspect of the game quite a lot.
I am wondering how the Panzer III and T70 will square off against eachother. Obviously their vulnerability to Infantry AT will change that aspect of the game quite a lot.
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Do you wanna know what i think is the Biggest Bogus on this Link? They include unconfirmed kills for the Russians... but not e.g. Simo H
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yeah everything russian is propaganda and everything german is true. you dont even explain why this should be fake..
oh and even if Surkov is a fake, there are tonns of other russian snipers while germans have only 7, and russian snipers still have much higher score than 345... Russian snipers are still the best.
oh and even if Surkov is a fake, there are tonns of other russian snipers while germans have only 7, and russian snipers still have much higher score than 345... Russian snipers are still the best.
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To be honest, I haven't looked into the numbers and don't know if the AT weapons are accurate, BUT I do get the feeling that they are overpowered as far as penetration. I feel that they would be more useful to disable tanks as far as damaging treads etc. Actually destroying a tank would (I think) require accurate closeup shots to weak points and right now that feels too easy to do.
So yes, if the AT weapons are off, I would prefer a more realistic tweaking for them.
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The T34 definitly is too weak on the turret. German AT rifle useage was seen as pretty ineffective by the Wehrmacht itself. If you think about the small paks not beeing able to damage the front of the T34(Without panzergranate(Still have to be really close) or the stiehlgranate (Which was able to penetrate anything but at high risks and below 300meter range)) its pretty strange to assume an antitank rifle could.
We should not forget though that we have very close distances in Ro2. From 30-40 meters an antitank rifle might disable parts of the tank. The doctrine of using AT rifles of the russians was to use them very very close so you might think german tanks werent as vulnerable too(Pz IV still not beeing the main tank in 1942). HOWEVER, in reality it is pretty suicidal to get so close to a tank. The enemy infantry will most likely disable you before you get in reach so ambushing is the best/only way to use an antitank rifle effectivly.
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