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Knock back discussion

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#61
I like the knockback; when you get hit, it actually feels like you're getting hit. But I do think it should scale for the threat/attack. I don't know how I feel about crawlers. Someone raised a good point that when they jump at you, you should feel it a little bit, right? But weak attacks by most of the trash zeds shouldn't have much, if any, effect ... kind of akin to getting slapped in the face. I think if it's too much, literally just getting knocked around left, right and backward is going to be highly annoying after a little while.
 
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#62
FoolishNinja said:
if you are able to push zeds aside, then how are you going to die in this game?
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This is how I feel about knocking zeds out of the way, but if it took time to push them and they would still damage you, you could still be trapped. Maybe slasher should be given the ability to jump on your back from behind like a monkey and slow you down, so if you ignore him you pay for it.
 
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#64
FoolishNinja said:
if you are able to push zeds aside, then how are you going to die in this game?
When ever you die, its because you got surronded.
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I don't want a way to let you run straight through zeds, I just want SOMETHING that will let me give myself some space. I know bashing is supposed to help with that, but it doesn't really work too well and is awkward to use. I just feel like it's odd that I worry way more about getting trapped in a doorway by clots that just spawned on either side than I worry about getting grabbed by them.
 
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#66
Knockback has always exposed some of the strangeness with Unreal in Killing Floor.
when a Player is not 'on the ground', Knockback is like 10x as powerful.
a Crawler for example, normally just moves you a Centimeter or two, but if you're in the air when you get hit, you'll go flying backwards like this is a Kung Fu Movie.
this also applies to if you are on the ground but before the Knockback 'ends', you end up in the air, then you suddenly gain more velocity.

that's what burns me with Knockback generally.
the biggest problem it tends to cause is either the aforementioned throwing me way backwards unexpectedly, or the Knockback moving me that couple Centimeters often being enough for my Bash or other shorter Range Melee Attack to be out of Range by the time my arm finishes the swing, when i pressed the button initially because i was in Range or expected to be by the time my arm outstretched (like while moving towards an Enemy).

however, i have had it cause combinations with other Unreal strangeness - the Player constantly bouncing when on top of another active Entity like an Enemy. so Knockback throws me back a long ways because i happened to be in the air at that specific moment, i land on top of a Crawler that was a few Meters behind me, i bounce around on top of it with no Player control for a moment, and the other Enemies surround that Crawler and my choices are either to wait to die because i can't do anything due to being out of Range of the Enemies to use Melee, or commit suicide and take the group of Enemies with me.
 
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#67
M1_Account said:
I disagree with some peoples' idea that small zeds should NEVER have knockback. Like you said, I think lesser zeds shouldn't usually do knockback, but it's good for like the lunging attacks.
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I agree with this take on the issue. Momentum WYSIWYG. In my imagination a stalker's flying kick would move me. A crawler biting my ankle wouldn't unless it involved clutching a leg, hopping on 1 foot and yelling "ow ow ow".
 
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#68
KarateF22 said:
I think Berserker needs to be immune to knockback from Zeds below Scrakes. I also think Crawlers should not impart knockback to anyone, Stalkers I'm a bit more ambivalent about... but for Crawlers no.
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I can see that being a passive perk for the Berserker, maybe not entirely immune to knock back, have it be one of the only classes that takes very little knock back compared to all the other perks. crawlers i can see knocking back with a lunge attack or if they stand up on their hind legs and smack you. For the rest of their attacks though there shouldn't be knock back on those, IMO.
 
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#69
isdatsumchikkin said:
My favorite part is exploiting the **** out of knockback. Oh hey mister FP I need to get away from all these zeds. Wanna give me a boost?

*get launched 100 feet away to safety *
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You know its funny because I've done that exact thing before. Oh No I'm cornered!. Oh look a friendly neighborhood fleshpound come to save the day.....0uch! im free! thanks fleshy!.
 
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#70
Zerk (and SWAT in the future) should either be passively immune to small zed knockback or via a skill (ie. Fortitude). Large Zeds like FP's and Scrakes should be able to knockback you still since they clearly have the means for it (Mby not SWAT though if he gets a riot shield but who knows).

Basically what Vealck said at the very beginning of the thread is my gripe with the situation as well.

I feel like it's unfair for Zeds to be pushing us around when you have a Support or Berzerk that weights so much more than any of them and he is not able to jack to them. I feel like we need a kicking attack with excessive force instead of a bash just to get crawlers, clots and stalkers out of our faces.

A Charge mechanic could also be added for bulkier perks like Berzerker, Support and Swat where you knock back and maybe even knockdown trash zeds when sprinting.
 
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#73
KomradeLaika said:
Sometimes it can be really annoying, but not all that unrealistic, particulary regarding crawlers, as seen here: https://youtu.be/cMpZIRYfPpI[url]https://youtu.be/cMpZIRYfPpI[/URL] or here: https://youtu.be/0O3Sg7Ctr-s[url]https://youtu.be/0O3Sg7Ctr-s[/URL]
I'm all for keeping knockback for larger Zeds and bosses, yet toning it down for lesser enemies.
I don't think players should be able to take precision shots while mauled from all sides. That's where teamwork should help, with crowd-control perks protecting more precision-based ones.
Crawlers can actually get instead their neurotoxin bites from the first game, making them a different kind of annoying :rolleyes:
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These video's are fine but they don't apply to this situation. Even if you are moving around, your are not running/sprinting while shooting/aiming, these dogs took down people that were sprinting/running by biting down on them to drag them down. IE they suddenly did a massive shift to the persons center of mass causing them to loose balance and fall. Standing still, I've been 'swipe' hit by crawlers, and stalkers as fire bug and had my screen shaken like an unwanted baby, in addition to pushing me around like a pool noodle in a strong wind. It's not fun, or enjoyable, in it's current implementation.

My suggestions on this

Clots/Slashers should get it on their drop kick like attacks

Cysts/Stalkers should have a stumble/knockdown on their big attacks (the
Cyst's slam down, and the stalkers cartwheel kick)

Crawlers should only have it on a new, special charging attack, or if placed on their current leap attack, put that attack on a cool-down timer, as currently they can spam it over and over to literally push you around the map like a piece of paper, and remove it from all their other attacks

Gorefast shouldn't really have a knock back, but a screen jitter is fine imo, they don't hit you with enough mass with any of their attacks to constitute being sent flying, they only attack with one twig of an arm and they push you...it's like they are all BDSM Saitama's or something

Bloats, I'm fine with their belly slam having knock back, large mass vs small mass and all

Sirens, they skeletons with a lil metal, no knockback at all if they melee you

Husks, fine with the fireball/melee having a bit of push power to it, maybe add in a close range 'launch' ability so that when some one with a shotgun/melee weapon gets close they launch them away instead of desperately trying to burn them alive, they are the second best armed zed after all

Scrake, he's a giant muscle bound lunkhead yes, but, a chainsaw is designed to 'bite' into things, so it wouldn't send you flying if your caught with the blade, maybe change them so that the 'blade' portion doesn't have knock back, but the 'hand/arm' area where it connects in, in addition to any non chainsaw 'blade' parts have powerful knock back due to the sheer size of this monster

Fleshpound, Fine with most of this, outside of one attack, the double 'punch' grind attack, it should have much less knock back and force the player to manually move away to reduce the damage of it

Hans: Similarly to stalkers, most of his melee attacks hit in a downward way, they should cause a serious screen jitter downwards, not send the player flying backward

Patty, I'm actually fine with all of his, except his chest penis thing attack, that shouldn't send people flying as far as it does, again due to the mass of the 'punch'
 
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#74
Tagasaki said:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Crawlers beware! Death from above! :D

Wait from ledge? Does this mean new map is in? No other map that has a ledge high enough. :p
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What? No ledge high enough? That's not true.

In addition to being able to jump over/on top of clots from stairs in maps that have them (which is most of them), there's plenty of actual ledges high enough. Black Forest alone is full of enough to make that a viable ammo saving strategy, as silly as that would look. Plus there are maps with multiple floors, like the blender room on Bio Lab, where you can jump over the railing and on top of enemies. And there are also some miscellaneous ledges, like the watchtower in the main yard on Prison and that second floor window you can jump out of from that empty room with the trader pod in it on Burning Paris.
 
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#79
Tagasaki said:
Man child? :D
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Hah! Nah I actually think the crawler is more like a full-size muscular human with 4 extra whole limbs, it's probably heavier than a human.

Regardless!

I'd say knockback is fine but severity of knockback should depend largely on how big the enemy is. Trash stuff in general should have enough to throw you off your aim but no more than that, mids rely on their individual blinding effects to do this so physically knockback is also less important there, and big'uns should certainly be able to knock you back a fair bit with their attacks.

Makes me want FP front kick back! That move looked so brutal.
 
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