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Knock back discussion

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Munk

Munk

Creative Director
Dec 1, 2005
141
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Alanta Georgia
#1
I've been noticing a lot of people not liking the knock back system when a zed hits a player. As the system stands right now small zeds will only do it if they do one of there lunge attacks, they are running at you and putting their weight behind the attack, it felt weird before when they did it and you as the player stood there like a brick wall. If any of the small zeds clots/crawlers hit you when they are right next to you I took out the knock back to fix the issue of it popping players all over the place. So who feels like this is still an issue? So let's discuss :)
 
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#2
Knock back is good. The first time I *really* noticed it was on a farmhouse game. We were all huddled upstairs in the house for some reason in a very silly way. Things got out of control quick. Zeds came in and started knocking us around while it got harder to see with less lights, gibs, and fluids everywhere. It was startling and intense trying to get out and regroup. At the time I remember thinking "what the $#1+ was that!? That was great!" I like the danger of being knocked around. Knock back the way it is currently is a keeper for me.
 
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#4
Yep, stalkers, crawlers, clots and cysts shouldn't have knockback at all.

OR - introduce a system where player can move zeds aside with his own momentum.

The most annoying thing here at the moment is asymmetry. A player who weights a lot more than a skinny crawler or stalker is bounced around by them, but when a single of those zeds stands in your way, it's like facing a concrete pillar. A sprinting player colliding with such zed should realistically send it flying across the room, but they barely move even after buttstock bash to the face.

Oh, and crawlers are little, we should be able to jump on them like in KF1 :D
 
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#5
I can understand crawlers having them when they jump at you. It would make sense to me if I were standing on a rail or ledge and a crawler leapt at me and knocked me off. Stalkers make sense if they knock me a little when they cartwheel kick me in the face. Strangely, zed knock back has also helped me a few times when I had started to get too trapped and body blocked by clots and stuff. Haha

We don't push the zeds around but we have panic, stun, and stagger that make up for that.
 
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#9
While I would favor only having Husks, Scrakes, and Fleshpounds only having knockback this may also work. If small zeds can't cause knockback when they're next to you then it's definitely a better system.

Knockback was really an issue when you had a Scrake or Fleshpound about to attack you and you got knocked into it by a stalker or crawler and couldn't escape.
 
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#10
I'm fine with it honestly, it hasn't really bothered me. As I'm usually in the moment of killing things and whatnot, I haven't been paying attention to see if the knockback is the same for all zeds or if lighter zeds slightly push you and bigger zeds just tend to send you flying.. which i'm sure is already the case. Either way, I agree against the unrealistic brick wall stance. Feels unnatural. (It doesn't take much effort at all to shove someone irl, so it's understandable for lighter zeds to knockback, especially if it's only with a power attack).

Also, when running away, sometimes that push actually gives you a mercy moment when creating some space between you and the zed(s). Should make something like a 5% chance to trip (ragdoll) when running away and getting knockbacked from behind. :p

(P.S did you get my pm Munk? I sent it from my phone and the screen twitched and idk if it sent or not lol)
 
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#12
I think it's fine on big Zeds like Scrakes, Fleshpounds and obviously bosses, but for trash Zeds it's extremely annoying. Specially with Crawlers and Stalkers since they can easily sneak by and screw your aim while you're trying to kill that Fleshpound, or when half your team is dead and you're trying to kite only to get a random (teleported) Gorefast making it impossible to kill that Siren in your face. At least that's how I've felt about it lately when playing on Hell on Earth.
 
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#13
I think for players playing ranged perks its not much of an issue and can actually be beneficial if you get knocked back out of harms way. With the Berserker class it gets very frustrating trying to hit your targets or parry an attack or getting knocked into a corner and getting surrounded or knocked off a ledge.

I mostly play on a server that has knockback removed for crawlers and stalkers and playing as zerk there is fine.
 
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#14
-I stopped playing zerk on Hell on Earth because there were too many times where the knockback would interrupt my precision swings and aim. That was when the initial change occurred. I haven't played with the more recent changes yet.

-I see people saying that "it can actually be beneficial", but I don't view an unintended side effect to be a valid reason to keep a feature.
 
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#15
I don't play zerk but I can sympathize with how they would have a hard time with knockback pushing them around, so maybe guarding/parrying/zerk perk itself could mitigate knockback in some way.

Personally I've never had an issue with knockback in any of its implementations. I feel as though it has fixed the issue fleshpounds have had since KF1 release where they would hit you a second time sometimes after using a rage attack.
 
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#16
I like the idea of knockback. It's saved my butt more than it has cost me. But if you're going to implement it for the zeds it should be for the players too. Running at a line of zeds I should be able to knock them back too and hopefully clear the way ( within reason, probably not a line of scrakes of fps :D ).

As far as trash zeds go, it needs to be toned down some. It's kinda funny watching a small crawler toss another player 10-15 feet. I don't know the mechanics of the knock back system but I imagine it should involve the mass and velocity/strength of the mover and the inertia of the moved. Smaller zeds should have less force.
 
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#18
It definitely needs toning down imo, Stalkers appear to have more knockback than Scrakes which is weird.

Give the big bastards more knockback, but don't let the little trashers knock us around like pingpong balls. :p

And yes, Zerker is definitely in a disadvantage with this, since knockback can make his attacks useless. Maybe give Zerker the passive skill of standing his ground? ;)


Overall it just feels a bit irritating, as if a concrete wall just pushed you back. Needs adjustement.
 
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