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Knock back discussion

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#41
None of the trash zeds should have knockback at all. I've found myself in the last couple patches very frustrated by it. When trying to maneuver around the zeds like I always have, the small zeds knock you back and it feels like you are being FORCED into a deadly surround. Taking sudden hits from crawlers or gorefasts is dangerous enough without it pushing you into a corner than you can't escape from. Feels like I am less in control.

Big zeds should absolutely knock back players. Scrakes, Fleshpounds. Husks and Bloats maybe. Nothing else.
 
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#42
I won't say too much as most of my thoughts have already been said by others. I like the knock back system in general, but with the trash it does feel a bit ridiculous at times. Cysts probably shouldn't have any since they're so clumsy and weak anyways. Crawlers are a bit debatable, maybe tone it down a bit. Stalkers, Gorefast and Slashers make sense to me, but dunno if they need some toning down. There's been plenty of interesting suggestions here already so I think we'll find a good middle ground.
 
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#43
Sometimes it can be really annoying, but not all that unrealistic, particulary regarding crawlers, as seen here: https://youtu.be/cMpZIRYfPpI[url]https://youtu.be/cMpZIRYfPpI[/URL] or here: https://youtu.be/0O3Sg7Ctr-s[url]https://youtu.be/0O3Sg7Ctr-s[/URL]
I'm all for keeping knockback for larger Zeds and bosses, yet toning it down for lesser enemies.
I don't think players should be able to take precision shots while mauled from all sides. That's where teamwork should help, with crowd-control perks protecting more precision-based ones.
Crawlers can actually get instead their neurotoxin bites from the first game, making them a different kind of annoying :rolleyes:
 
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#44
Wow I did miss something! :eek:

Overall, knock back adds to the simulation. It makes only sense zeds aren't the only ones to get knocked around by the excessive force that is in play on both sides.
However, it can become really frustrating when they corner you. Okay most of the time you shouldn't have get yourself cornered in the first place and you should actually blame yourself for all the nasty things that follow... but some times you cannot help it like when playing solo or berserker.
However, the fact is I don't see people get knocked around by trash on good hell on earth pubs very often. They also never blame the knockback when they die to trash zeds. Clearing trash before it reaches you is already trivial by popular demand so I don't see why players who fail even that shouldn't be punished.

You are already refining the solo loop and teleporting anyway so I think the best thing would be to experiment withknock back resistance for berserker. At the same time, you could think about decreasing / removing knock back on lower difficulties.
 
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#45
Knockback sucks and is super annoying, especially from spiders. It's very frustrating dealing with knockback as a Berserker because it makes my swings miss. There's nothing as annoying as running up to an FP with my hammer, go to swing, only to be beat away right before my hit connects.

Either remove knockback entirely, or remove it from weak zeds and give Berserker resistance to it.
 
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#46
knockback for all zeds is so annoying...
I'm ok with it if only fleshpound, scake, husk or even gorefast can push you.
but a stalker sending you 10m away....
clot slasher crawler and stalker pushing you away? it's stupid...

If you want them to knockback you to stick to something more realistic then don't forget that a 30-30 bullet fired from a winchester can go through 3 wooden railroad ties (from my own test ;))
so even that tiny winchester should destroy a scrake with only 1 bullet in the head ^^
 
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#49
slashsnemesis said:
I don't think trash should knock back. Trash is supposed to surround you and if they're knocking you back it works against that.
Click to expand...

only their lunge attack has a knockback and its realistic to knock you back. You cant just stand there like a brick wall, its not correct. The only zeds that should not knock you back are crawlers and stalkers, and some fine tuning to gorefast, the rest is great.
 
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#51
slashsnemesis said:
I don't think trash should knock back. Trash is supposed to surround you and if they're knocking you back it works against that.
Click to expand...
FoolishNinja said:
only their lunge attack has a knockback and its realistic to knock you back. You cant just stand there like a brick wall, its not correct. The only zeds that should not knock you back are crawlers and stalkers, and some fine tuning to gorefast, the rest is great.
Click to expand...

the game have to be realistic so any zed can knockback the player with lunge attack or other attacks or even when breack the grab from colt/cyst/slasher
like self knockback defense extrication i guess

so slashsnemesis and FoolishNinja a dog can knockdown in real life, imagine that crawler are about 20-30kg and jump in front of your face you will be like immovable object ?
 
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#53
Sounds like this is really torn down the middle with the community, but everyone agrees that it needs more refinement. I do like the direction of having knock back be based on mass/size of the zed and what type of an attack it's doing to determine if the player should be knocked back and how far. We're also talking internally in the studio about being able to push zeds, it's very tricky nut to crack but we are going to look into it. As for jumping over crawlers you'll be super excited to know we got that in and you also knock them down when you jump on them! We're even testing this with clots!so if you jump off a ledge onto a clots head he'll get knocked down ;)
 
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#55
Munk said:
Sounds like this is really torn down the middle with the community, but everyone agrees that it needs more refinement. I do like the direction of having knock back be based on mass/size of the zed and what type of an attack it's doing to determine if the player should be knocked back and how far. We're also talking internally in the studio about being able to push zeds, it's very tricky nut to crack but we are going to look into it. As for jumping over crawlers you'll be super excited to know we got that in and you also knock them down when you jump on them! We're even testing this with clots!so if you jump off a ledge onto a clots head he'll get knocked down ;)
Click to expand...

Finally! No more being blocked in a corner by a group of Crawlers!
 
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#56
vealck said:
OR - introduce a system where player can move zeds aside with his own momentum.

The most annoying thing here at the moment is asymmetry. A player who weights a lot more than a skinny crawler or stalker is bounced around by them, but when a single of those zeds stands in your way, it's like facing a concrete pillar. A sprinting player colliding with such zed should realistically send it flying across the room, but they barely move even after buttstock bash to the face.
Click to expand...

THIS SO MUCH. It's really obnoxious getting trapped in a corner because zeds are immovable objects that may only be removed with bullets.
 
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#58
Munk said:
Sounds like this is really torn down the middle with the community, but everyone agrees that it needs more refinement. I do like the direction of having knock back be based on mass/size of the zed and what type of an attack it's doing to determine if the player should be knocked back and how far. We're also talking internally in the studio about being able to push zeds, it's very tricky nut to crack but we are going to look into it. As for jumping over crawlers you'll be super excited to know we got that in and you also knock them down when you jump on them! We're even testing this with clots!so if you jump off a ledge onto a clots head he'll get knocked down ;)
Click to expand...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Crawlers beware! Death from above! :D

Wait from ledge? Does this mean new map is in? No other map that has a ledge high enough. :p
 
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#59
Munk said:
I've been noticing a lot of people not liking the knock back system when a zed hits a player. As the system stands right now small zeds will only do it if they do one of there lunge attacks, they are running at you and putting their weight behind the attack, it felt weird before when they did it and you as the player stood there like a brick wall. If any of the small zeds clots/crawlers hit you when they are right next to you I took out the knock back to fix the issue of it popping players all over the place. So who feels like this is still an issue? So let's discuss :)
Click to expand...

I don't think it's believable to even have a crawler, with a running start, knock you back several feet.

Just from a size perspective - it doesn't make sense to me.

The crawler is the only zed I have issues with regarding the system though.

Husks being able to shoot you and send you flying from elevated perches is fantastic.

Fps/Scrakes sending groups of players flying across the screen just seems "right".
 
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#60
Reptilian said:
THIS SO MUCH. It's really obnoxious getting trapped in a corner because zeds are immovable objects that may only be removed with bullets.
Click to expand...

if you are able to push zeds aside, then how are you going to die in this game?
When ever you die, its because you got surronded.
Zeds do too little damage, inlcuding FP and Sc.
I remember a gorefast in KF1 did 50 damage, keep in mind that all perks had 100hp except zerker with his damage reduction.
A FP does in KF2 about 60 damage. See what I mean?

A damage boost to all zeds would be great.
Im talking about HoE only.
 
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