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Important: Way too accurate aim for every soldier!

But like I said, there -is- a realistic depiction of sway in aiming.

The rhythmic back-and-forth sway is caused by respiration. This is represented in regular ADS aiming, combined with the weapon acceleration and sight misalignment sway.

Holding shift puts your character into breath control, which eliminates the respiration sway for several seconds, leaving the other two unaffected (at least until the random muscle twitches start to kick in).

What's unrealistic about this? There's sway in all forms of aiming. Shift+Zoom merely eliminates the breathing sway for several seconds.
 
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It's unrealistic because if I don't move the mouse, the sights don't move...at all.

Impossible to achieve that effect in real life (and there are times in game where you can take a shot while doing this).

Only way I can do this in real life is by putting the rifle into a vice on a shooting table. Even if I control my breaths on a couple sandbags on a shooting table, while sitting in a chair, the sights will still sway a bit.
 
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What gameplay benefit is going to be drawn from TWI spending man-hours to throw in a few pixels of sway?

Why is this important enough that TWI should waste time throwing it in when you already said that the effect on gameplay would be negligible? There are already several factors that realistically model weapon sway, as I've said a dozen times already, including sight misalignment and weapon acceleration. Why does the whole gun need to shift unnecessarily?

Once I get the sights aligned IRL, I can hold pretty stock still at the bottom of my exhale. Just for ****s and giggles I went and grabbed my .22. Admittedly, it's not quite as big as a K98, but still. From standing, I aligned the sights and started breath control, and I wasn't seeing any noticeable sway in the weapon for a few seconds, before my arm got tired and I had to breath again. Yeah, it's still there a little bit, but it's affect on my accuracy under 150 yards would be fairly negligible, especially shooting at something as large as a man-sized target.
 
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It's just something that I said I'd like to see changed. Remember I was the one who brought up the man hour argument, so I realize the +'s and -'s.

All I'm asking for is that small sway, I never asked for any large amounts. If it were an easy fix, I'd like to see it, and I'd think it would make some impact. Could make the difference between hitting the guy between the eyes and giving him a new earring hole (or squeezing a shot into a small angle on a MGer tucked onto the corner of a window)

On a 5 inch target at 80 yards (my shooting range) with no wind with my .17 caliber bolt action, I could hit MOST shots on target (if there is a breeze...good luck, that thing is barely more than a BB). Less with my k98.

Was wanting to go in game and see just how well I can shoot distinct features on buildings to see if I could hit the same spot over and over (isn't there a shooting range in game?); but I'm away from home for a couple days.
 
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Having spend almost a decade in the Army, as well as nearly 2 decades playing first person shooters, I was compelled to respond to the OP. While I agree with some of what you said, alot of the things you stated are either inaccurate, or completely made up.

First of all, if you think hitting a target using an m4 equipped with an optical sight is difficult in combat, you are correct.

If you think that hitting a target with an m4 equipped with an optical sight is difficult under all conditions, you are arguably one of the world's worst marksmen.

The Army's rifle qualification range involves shooting at a series of 40 targets at ranges that vary from 50 meters to 300 meters. In some infantry units, Soldiers practice at the range a few times each week. In non-combat units, Soldiers shoot their weapons maybe two or three times each year. If you are in the combat unit, you are pretty much required to qualify as a sharpshooter(30+ hits) and your life will be alot easier if you can qualify as an expert (36+ hits). Fortunately the m4 is a toy in comparison to older weapons, and most soldiers, infantry or not, are able to shoot sharpshooter or expert. When you add an optical sight into the equation, it is trivial to hit your target at least 95 percent of the time.

The m4 is a relatively accurate weapon, but it isn't as accurate as the moisin nagant and k98 bolt action rifles. There are many shooting enthusiasts who still choose to build rifles based on the k98 action, and moisin nagants are highly valued by collectors as one of the best bolt actions rifles ever created.

You also stated that weapon malfunctions were more prevalent in wwII. This statement doesn't make much sense to me because the average soldier had a bolt action rifle, and it is exceedingly rare for a bolt action rifle to suffer a malfunction. On the other hand most of the assault rifles in common use today are notorious for their rates of malfunction. The m16/m4 style rifles in particular have been known for their unreliability since the prototypes were fielded in vietnam.(Soldiers were initially told that they wouldn't have to clean them at all, ooops)

Now for the game itself. Personally one of the things I disliked about the original was that you can be lying still, in the prone position, and have a perfect sight picture on a stationary enemy that doesn't even see you, yet when you fire you still miss him completely pretty often. I don't know whether or not this was the result of poor hit detection, or an intentional gameplay mechanic. Either way, it almost ruined the game. One of the best parts about red orchestra 2 is that when your aim is true, you tend to hit your targets more reliably.

Now you stated that it shouldn't be like this, because you don't like getitng shot from a kilometer away. While I know that you were only exagerating the distance, I want to mention the actual distance at which most red orchestra engagements take place. 100-150 meter kills are common, nearing 200 is fairly rare, and anything over that is something to truly be proud of. The important thing to take away from this is that hitting a target at 200 meters is ridiculously easy in real life, even for those of us who only go to a range twice a year. 300 meters is only marginally more difficult.

While I disagree with most of what you said, I do agree that it sucks that the game is has degraded into a sniping contest. I think that a possible solution would be to remove the ridiculous fog that all first person shooters seem to love these days. At 150 meters It shouldn't be so hazy that I can barely see enough to aim at a person. If the fog was removed, other rifleman would actually have a fair chance at engaging the snipers and machinegunners, and the game might stop being a camp-fest.
 
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On a 5 inch target at 80 yards (my shooting range) with no wind with my .17 caliber bolt action, I could hit MOST shots on target (if there is a breeze...good luck, that thing is barely more than a BB). Less with my k98.

Was wanting to go in game and see just how well I can shoot distinct features on buildings to see if I could hit the same spot over and over (isn't there a shooting range in game?); but I'm away from home for a couple days.

.17 cal is completely different ball game, your shooting a round that does maybe 1100 fps tops. .22 LR does 1300 so .17 cal will be comparable/bit less.

K98 and mosin shoots 2900 fps with a round that weighs 10x more. They don't drift much in wind under 100m.

I still reiterate: more sway should not be added, limitations of sites should be added.

EDIT: shooting range is in training, though I do think it'd be nice if they let you just do the range part
 
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First off, we know there needs to be a little more variation on ironsite sway.

I wen't to the range last weekend, had a lighter AR-15 in my hands and
the first couple minutes, had a ton of sway.

Then I noticed I became more relaxed, breathing was more controlled and I was able to obtain a tighter grouping.

Also noticed similar to RO, if I felt the sway was too great, I would drop my gun to my side, relax and bring it back up to ironsites fresh. This seemed to help.

Conclusion: Compared to this weekends target-practice, RO ironsite aiming is still Olympic in its accuracy and quickness.
 
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Here's the thing with what you are proposing- yes its more realistic to have unsteady front and back sites, however it creates more randomness in a game.

In reality you can move your front & back hands to keep your ironsites aligned, however in a game this would be unnecessarily complex.

RO1 had it this way, basically once your sites become unaligned its almost impossible to make a shot because you cant move your front and back hands to steady the ironsites. This created a randomness.

RO2 has ironsite sway, if you are skilled you can predict the sway and compensate for it. Yes, this is unrealistic to have both hands sway the entire rifle but it does create a realistic more controlled conclusion.
 
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